User talk:NimoStar

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Latest comment: 4 months ago by Jph2 in topic Global Conduct Policy

Hi there,

I'm writing here as I was looking at the Requests for Comment page just now, and saw your current draft proposal, /Premium offerings (in-house proposal). I'd like to ask if you still have an intention of working on the proposal and submitting it for voting? It's been nearly three weeks since the last edit was made to the page, and the original proposal has long since ended. As such, I'm just writing here to ask of your intentions to hopefully gain some clarity on the situation.

Hope all is well. BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 15:14, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As I wrote in the discord back than, was going through some real life stuff in those moments and I couldn't dedicate time to monitor that situation. Besides, my proposal wasn't allowed to be added as an alternative to the other one unlike, say. the recent multiple alternatives RfC, so there wasn't really much it could influence either way. I would argue, as I did in those moments, that it should have been added as a parallel voting. But anyways, I never did think money was the real problem Miraheze has... people and my friends that co-admin wikis I have known, regularly donate money, and for what little I have been able to see, Miraheze does have a steady revenue stream from voluntary donations. The problem rather lies the other stuff discussed below. --NimoStar (talk) 05:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Your opinions on the Reorganization of Miraheze RfC[edit source]

You've repeatedly claimed that the people at WikiForge and WikiTide "have deliberately abandoned and even sabotaged Miraheze and tried to push for the failed shutdown". What proof do you have proof for this? And as Robkelk said, this could result in court action.

And if you so clearly hate Miraheze being transferred to the US, why do you support 1B so much but oppose 1C so much? Is it just because of your (probably wrong) argument that WikiForge tried to sabotage Miraheze? User talk:Anpang 00:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Where did I said that I "Hate" the transfer of Miraheze to the US? Yeah trying to sue me for making a vote on a wiki farm... this reinforces everything I have been saying. And taking the matter to my use page? Clearly harassment. As for the proof, these are the very same people that abandoned Miraheze suddenly literally when they couldn't get their way with the Wikiforge stuff before. The claims that they did so because a random user was being rude to them are spurious. UniversalOmega doesn't even have a Miraheze account, having censored everything about himself with sysops powers before leaving, and now wants to own the place (he is actually the sole proprietor of Wikiforge and Wikitide despite claims to the contrary, I have checked). The people who announced the mock shutdown of Miraheze without even asking for new volunteers and while there were significant budget reserves, are with Wikiforge. Clearly a project that depends on trying to destroy the competition is not one I want to support. There are also significant behavior issues as I have pointed out. Note that I have never gone to Wikiforge to attack it in any way - it is Wikiforge people that come to Miraheze to push for its destruction or absorption and keep saying how "untenable" and "horrible" and "unsustainable" everything here is (we were doing fine just without you, thanks!) --NimoStar (talk) 04:52, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm here because the way to express your opinions on the RfC is really, really aggressive. First, It's been announced so many times, Miraheze "closed" not because it didn't have budget, it didn't have volunteers.
"Wikiforge people that come to Miraheze to push for its destruction or absorption and keep saying how "untenable" and "horrible" and "unsustainable" everything here is". Give some Discord message ID or talk page diff, (as far as I know) no one ever said that?
"The people who announced the mock shutdown of Miraheze without even asking for new volunteers and while there were significant budget reserves, are with Wikiforge." How do you know that the shutdown in June was a mock shutdown? User talk:Anpang 08:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, really? Reread your original message, not once did you object to the tone of my comments, you objected to the *content* of them and immediately threatened a lawsuit. And *I* am aggressive? I haven't threatened wikiforge, how about a lawsuit for sabotage, conflict of interest, false filings, corporate and financial misrepresentation (claiming that "wikiforge has no owners and doesn't need them", wut) and disloyal competition? Luckily for you, I don't have the financial interest on the matter to be as petty as you are. I just stated some facts and opinions on the case, I didn't insult, censor, sabotage, or threaten anybody as is your modus operandi. Look in the mirror first. --NimoStar (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just going to advise all users here to remain civil and abide by the Global Conduct Policy. This isn't a specific referendum on anyone, but rather a useful note going forward. Please make sure your responses are civil and respectful, even when discussing controversial topics. Thank you. BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 20:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Right, you're just making things up now. Where did I "immediately threatened a lawsuit"? I literally said that Robkelk said it. I never claimed that you claimed "wikiforge has no owners and doesn't need them". "And *I* am aggressive?" Yes. Main thing I'm here is to get why you oppose 1C so much and aggressively, and I got it, so thanks I understand now why you're so aggressive about those points, you do have a point, but instead you continue to insult me to the absolute maximum. You talk about not insulting anyone who supports WikiForge and stuff but you literally just called me "petty" and "threatening" (I am not), and telling me to look in the mirror first. Fine, but uno reverse card - you look in the mirror too. Also, by the indent level you're technically replying to yourself? User talk:Anpang 10:44, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't speak for NimoStar, but it could be a perception that folks left Miraheze back June-ish and started WikiTide and now it appears those same folks are going to reabsorb Miraheze into WikiTide, even if it does business a Miraheze. That's precisely why I supported option B and opposed option C.
With my understanding of the circumstances 6 months ago, I can't believe there was deliberate sabotage, but I clearly understand the pain some folks feel as a result of the fallout of 6 months ago. It's maybe not so much about feeling WikiTide "tried to sabotage Miraheze" as much as it is a feeling those folks abandoned Miraheze for whatever reason.
In any case, everyone is entitled to their opinion and their vote, whether we agree or not. That's the whole point of an RfC.
Jph2 (talk) 01:03, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with Jph2 on most points here. Everyone is completely entitled to their vote, regardless of how others feel about it. I would like to correct the notion that folks abandoned Miraheze, though. There is more to it but the gist of it is that there was a serious falling out amongst volunteers, one that caused current active members of the community to lose faith in others. It wasn't the initial announcement of Miraheze dissolving that caused people to leave, there were preceding events. Just thought I'd point that out. Happy New Year to all! BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 01:11, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regarding civil discussion... As an afterthought, what is the last time a legitimate company sued someone for a MediaWiki vote/comment? Or any company for that matter. I don't even have any special position or rights on Miraheze, I am a simple local admin. If this is how a regular online comment is treated I shudder to think what would be told to pressure anyone who actually has any influence to stop this, such as Stewards and not-co-opted Miraheze board, including some that "suddenly" did a 180 turn without explanation. My thoughts go with them all, may reason and principle prevail; and may deities protect and save us. --NimoStar (talk) 23:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No one has pressured anyone or threatened legal action - so I'm not sure where you're getting that at all. Could you clarify a bit? BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 04:04, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes they did. "As Robkelk already said, this could result in court action" referring against me for my comment. Also, I would believe since the discussion was brought here against my wishes instead of responding on the RfC itself where this belongs, if there's anywhere I can share my opinion, it would be in my own personal user page at the very least? --NimoStar (talk) 05:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Missed that in my first read, caught it on the second. I want to clarify - Miraheze/WikiTide will not be pursuing legal action against users for violations of the Global Conduct Policy. That isn't/has never been a thing, so I'm entirely unsure where that came from. You do not need to be concerned about that. Also, the GCP applies to everyone everywhere. Same restrictions apply to your talk page as an RfC. But yes - Miraheze/WikiTide doesn't pursue legal action based on conduct violations. BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 06:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
All users in this thread are advised to remain civil. It does appear to be getting heated so please, take some time and step back. Agent Isai Talk to me! 10:57, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alright, sorry. User talk:Anpang 11:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Global Conduct Policy[edit source]

Hello NimoStar, I am 1108-Kiju, a Steward.

Some of your recent comments in RFCs contain baseless and speculative accusations against other users. Therefore, I have determined that you are in violation of the Global Conduct Policy.

Comments to which this applies: Diff/369935, Diff/353908, Diff/353909, Diff/353945, Diff/370194

Everyone is welcome to express their opinions at RfC, however this does not apply to GCP violations. Please be respectful of other users at all times. Alos, when expressing an opposing view, please include sufficient evidence and be careful not to be accusatory or slanderous.

Thanks, 1108-Kiju/Talk 08:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello. In the revisions where I made a direct countenance of facts, such as Diff/370194, I did include direct and sufficient evidence for calling out what was wrong. It is not an insult to say that facts are being misrepresented. By definition, slander is: "the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation." as it necessarily follows, true and proven affirmations can never be constitued as slander. Paradoxically, falsely accusing someone of slander is actually slanderous. In addition I can say that illegal spying is probably being conducted over my account over this matter, whereas my account was logged out of all Miraheze sites after near a year following just this (my session is set to never expire and my cookies still had months until they passed their date), this is a typical result of audit and other actions over my personal data, since I used to be a site sysops myself. Also, since this "foundation" is now hosted on the USA, and since Miraheze is now a "public charity", I invoke my first amendment rights to freedom of speech. Know that I am taking multiple archives of each edits at the relevant sites, which may be invoked later in the case of infringement over my fundamental attributions. Cheers. --NimoStar (talk) 09:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your response hasn't addressed the main diffs that 1108-Kiju has linked to. In fact, you are once again assuming bad faith and claiming that you are being "illegally spied on" which is simply not true. As for the First Amendment claim, the First Amendment only applies to the government restricting speech and does not cover businesses. In fact companies have a First Amendment right to decide what restrictions they may place and if you look at social media sites there are clearly restrictions on speech. Therefore, the Global Conduct Policy (approved via RfC), applies and Stewards (elected by the community) are entitled to enforce it. Reception123 (talk) (C) 11:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are again making false statements. Public charities are considered as providing a public service and not for profit, thus the tax deductible status; and thus the protection. If you consider Miraheze or WikiTide as a "business" you are directly contradicting your mission statement (doubly so since this is a legal response from a Steward and Sysops), and provided inadvertent support for my long-time allegations (although to be sure, this is only a fraction of the evidence collected in case of an aggressive incident). Have fun in the archive for any future cases should you move against me, about providing this very valuable information for the tax and register interest of the State of Ohio (or what is Idaho?). I will still clarify, in case there was ever any doubt, my only intent and content of participation in meta wiki was to exercise my rights to vote and an accompanying opinion (unlike the personal attacks I keep receiving from overzealous staffers, even here on my page; and from Labster directly insulting me on the vote). I shall continue to exercise these rights and ask for no more, so long as there is no further aggression or escalation against my person and contributions. Good day. --NimoStar (talk) 11:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A non-profit is indeed a business. It's just a business whose goal it is to raise money for a charitable cause so Reception123 has not said anything incorrect though the term "organization" is better suited in this case as some (like yourself) equate 'business' to 'for-profit' rather than just another term for a company. Agent Isai Talk to me! 12:36, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hot day at the IRC discussion table, ain't it... --NimoStar (talk) 12:58, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi NimoStar,
Let's go through one by one and respond to your claims.
  • Firstly, the First Amendment of the United States Constitution restricts government from censoring your speech. The text of the amendment itself makes no note of "public services", only government. As such, that in itself is invalid. Second, a response from Stewards and sysops are not considered a legal response, the Board and Trust and Safety is responsible for all legal communications.
  • 369935 is a nice example. By requiring 'additional scrutiny' on projects, we are simply attempting to remove wikis that do not fit with our Content Policy from the Miraheze ecosystem - a wiki being used as a file host for other projects would not be tolerated, neither would a wiki with an aim to insult a group of people. We are not censoring projects, rather we are attempting to keep the quality of wikis high, and ensure compliance with aforementioned policies. If a wiki topic comes up, even if we don't necessarily agree with it, as long as the topic is in compliance, it would be approved.
  • 353908, illustrates how you didn't read the request. 1C specifically illustrated that premium offerings would not be offered on Miraheze. As you can see, wikis are still free, we quite specifically have a "nonprofit" designation, and the community still very much has governance over the platform. And, of course, that "clique" is accountable to the community.
  • Moving on, 353909 has a slew of incorrect assumptions. Volunteers didn't leave Miraheze to sabotage it, they left due to irresolvable conflicts with other members of the volunteer team. Those members are now gone, so the point is moot. WikiTide is a private company, yes, as was Miraheze. And the 'fake' foundation is very much real, there is a Board of Directors vote happening as we speak in an RfC which you've also responded to.
  • Second to last, 353945 again goes ahead with baseless claims such as offering premium services on Miraheze. We do not, and will not, offer those services. WikiForge is a separate organization from the WikiTide Foundation, and as such is not illegal. I'd also highly recommend you stop threatening legal action when in reality, it seems clear you don't know what you're talking about.
  • Lastly, 370194. If you had bothered to look into it, you would have been made aware that the wikis in question were permitted to exist as they were in place prior to the creation of the 'reception wiki' restriction. A grandfather clause example, you could say. The proposal just rewords an already existing restriction, as you can see if you visited the Content Policy page. The facts were not misrepresented at all.
I am not a sysop nor a Steward, but I have seen cases like these before, and I would highly recommend you disengage and try and abide by the policies that have been set in stone by Miraheze. Failure to do so would likely result in far more severe consequences than this warning on your talk page, and that would be truly unfortunate. Examples may include a temporary block, ban, or global lock. Again, not speaking from a position of authority, but rather as a fellow member of the community, trying to give you some guidance that it seems is desperately needed.
All the best, BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 17:16, 13 February 2024 (UTC) BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 17:16, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. I don't have the time and energy to go through all that right now as I am going through bringing a judge to trial in the superior courts of appeal, and my account keeps getting magically logged out, which didn't tend to happen before getting systematically stalked. I am happy for you though, or sorry that happened. --NimoStar (talk) 16:57, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Happy to summarize for ya, and I'll note that threats of legal action also fall under the Global Conduct Policy, so would advise being careful there. Here's the summary: you are not being stalked, Miraheze is not conspiring against you, and please stop misstating facts when you do not have all the information, or are trying to cause problems. I'm not a sysop or a Steward, I'm just trying to help.
    Here's the final sentence: further violations of policy will likely be met with appropriate consequences, so it's my advice for you to try and stay within them.
    Have a great day. BrandonWM (talkcontributionsglobalrights) 23:23, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Account logouts happen sporadically. Random logouts seem to not be happening as much recently as they did a couple months ago. But if you visit a new wiki, it often seems to result in a logout, in my experience. That might be a software issue, but it's not personal. If I had a dollar every time I was logged out in the last 6 months, I could take the family out for dinner at a fancy restaurant, including dessert.
    I must admit, I'm a bit confused why you'd raise a concern but then not have "the time and energy to go through" a response to that concern.
    Jph2 (talk) 23:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC) Jph2 (talk) 23:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]