Community noticeboard

Use HTTPS in interwiki URL if the external server supports TLS
Some interwiki URLs still use HTTP protocol, and some of them should be upgraded to use HTTPS protocol. For example, wiki http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 can be upgraded to https://wiki.c2.com/?$1. AkiGoto (talk) 18:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Anyone interested in security for visitors? --AkiGoto (talk) 23:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

What is a 'reception wiki'?
Following the closure of this RfC which formally prohibited for an indefinite amount of time the creation of new 'reception wikis,' a number of users expressed concern about the fact that there was no solid definition of a 'reception wiki' which leaves what it is up to the judgement of a wiki creator. Per my close of the RfC, I am initiating this community discussion to collect thoughts about how a 'reception wiki' for purposes of the RfC. From this discussion, I will then open a vote to see what community members think the definition of a 'reception wiki' should be. Agent Isai Talk to me! 15:26, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like a reception wiki is a wiki about 1) living or fictional individuals (Incredible/Loathsome Characters Wiki), groups or other immaterial things (Friday Night Funkin' mods, Ugly Logos Wiki, Crappy Software Wiki), 2) with a name that lists a good or bad attribute (incredible, garbage, astonishing, big etc., so anything or anyone subject to articles in that wiki is associated with this attribute) and 3) dedicated solely to this (per the About the reception wikis section). OrangeStar (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * reception wikis are wikis that describe good or bad qualities of media. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 15:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll take my best shot at this.
 * A 'reception wiki' is a wiki that primarily aims to describe what makes X so bad or so good, according to X's reception. Rarely, both at the same time. This does not mean wikis which cover media but typically include a 'Reception' section. --Blad  (talk • contribs • accounts) 17:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The most accurate definition of a reception wiki I made is the following: a wiki that documents the reasons for a subject's reception through a series of numbered pointers. The good and bad qualities are usually separated with headers "Why It Sucks/Rocks" and "Redeeming/Bad Qualities". Tali64³ (talk) 19:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with you because these types of wikis you're described attracts biased content, controversies and dramas, and even outright disruptive editing. Also, some if not most pointers on Qualitipedia-like reception wikis (including character wikis) are unsourced, making it difficult or even impossible to verify these pointers are not made up. I'm not saying reception wikis are inherently bad, I'm just saying these wikis are controversial and prone to drama. TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 02:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * All of the above are too narrow and fail to sufficiently cover the amount of factors that make up reception wikis. Unfortunately the clearest way to explain is simply by pointing out examples of how things work. Individual points don't make a reception wiki. Most or all of the points together do.
 * Binary scope: (Good/Bad/Neutral-Decent-Average-etc) (thing) Wiki. Exception, certain wikis that glue the two together which hint at other factors or are clearly trying to subvert this principle explicitly.
 * Formula: The substance of a mainspace page is bullet points of indeterminate size and quality, designed to 'rant' about certain components of the thing. Sometimes they'll come with sources of various quality. The objective is to list these things, not necessarily to explain where they came from, how they connect together (though some particularly long-winded pages do go in bullet point paragraphs to partially achieve this) and critically they rarely take a third party point of view and tend to read as primary or secondary sources.
 * Overall slant: The above format will typically accompany a short, often pasted from Wikipedia opening or similar in style blurb; a tagline of indeterminate creativity, the main course of above, trivia and possibly a separate reception section attempting to tie in the pointers to how the 'thing' was popularly received. If the overall reflects a personal blog or an attempt to find consensus on a piece of material is completely at the mercy of who is writing the article.
 * Management: Less crucial since this is broad and not reception wikis specifically, but the following observations are often shared. Founders/owners are treated with a degree of reverence. Admins and bureaucrats tend to have far greater agency and get away with more nonsense than in a truly Wikimedia-inspired community. In the past this came with arbitrary decision making and decidedly petty block reasons, but it's more recently been infused with 'sloppy RfCs' and some attempt at rules (though often, in finding a reception wiki the rules tend to be less than ideal and often make things more confusing). Main page wise there are pretty much two types and the commonalities are uncanny; either the "new" front page eyesore that is iconic for Qualitipedia or an older style that slaps rules, staff and a basic description/tagline on the main page.
 * Other factors come in but they're more individuals or trends that aren't as strongly tied with how reception wikis work, while the above tend to be the main commonalities that come together and you end up with what is known as a reception wiki. --Raidarr (talk) 11:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarification. However, this begs the question because this type of wikis with these commonalities above may have ruined Miraheze's reputation, is closure of original reception wikis on FANDOM/Wikia justified? TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 04:16, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how this question is pertinent. Fandom/Wikia's closures are based on their own approach which is mainly 'feel' for what they think is best for their platform's image and advertising, and more recently the types of content they want to promote. It's up to them, indeed, it's out of community input in that case. --Raidarr (talk) 11:25, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I honestly agree with you. The closure of reception wikis in Miraheze, in other hand are closed following the successful RfC for Qualitipedia wikis, and for TF&HW and other user reception wikis, it was closed as of result of Content Policy and/or Code of Conduct violations iirc. TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 22:48, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Note from SRE Regarding the Swift Migration
On behalf of SRE,

As we have been mentioning for months, we are finally going to be beginning our file storage migration from our current software (GlusterFS) to a new, more modern software (Swift). GlusterFS is an outdated and inefficient technology. It has frequently caused issues with our MediaWiki performance, and some of the sporadic 503s can be attributed to it.

Swift is a much more modern storage software, which is used by the Wikimedia Foundation, and has better performance for the high volume of traffic. We have been working hard to get everything in order, and working with this new storage solution. There should hopefully not be to many user-facing interruptions during this migration, but you could at some points during it experience some issues. If you do, please let us know.

We have already started the migration by first switching over all new wiki creations to use Swift. Soon we will begin switching other wikis over. We will be doing it so that all wikis starting with the letter "a" will be switched over first, then once they are done, all wikis starting with the letter "b" will be switched over, and so on and so forth. We expect the total timeframe of the migration to last around one month before all wikis are switched over.

However, there is one unfortunate side-effect of this: during the migration, and potentially a little bit longer after the migration is done, we have to disable the ability for wikis to generate their own dumps using Special:DataDump. If you need to request a dump before we are able to get it working again, please request so on Phabricator.

— Universal Omega (talk) 20:50, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * AdvanceWarsWiki's images uploaded before 18:12 are showing up as errors. . The one I uploaded recently is ok though . OrangeStar (talk) 18:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This issue is no longer happening, the first two images returned but the third got lost, I just decided to reupload the third and move on. The migration to swift looks like a success in that wiki, because I feel like the wiki's loading times are reduced notably, but still, it's a wiki that basically I edit and read only myself for now, we'll see how it goes in more famous wikis. OrangeStar (talk) 22:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I apologise for the issues that occured earlier. The issue at that time was caused by a configuration change that has been fixed. Please let me know if you encounter any further issues. I will note however, that during this migration there may be times that a few images might not appear correctly. That is because they are still being copied over to Swift. It shouldn't be a highly common occurrence, but it may happen at some times. Perhaps for a few hours to maybe a day or so. Universal Omega (talk) 05:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I’m lucky that I was on Googlepedia (mh:google:Main Page). It is editable and loaded content quickly as of now. Silicona (talk) 12:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for Feedback: Categories and the tagging system

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Thank you everyone for your participation in this RfF. Your opinions help SRE implement features on Miraheze and improve your experience. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 20:03, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

For years now, Miraheze has used a categorization system which is integrated into WikiDiscover and is supposed to allow users to easily find wikis that they're interested in. Over time however, many users have expressed discontent with this system as the current categories are either too wide or to vague and their wikis may fall into only a specific category within a category or they may fall in multiple categories and thus their category very loosely fits them.

For a long time now, we have been discussing the possibility to adding a new 'tags' system and it seems that it is a necessity now. By allowing wikis to use tags, these wikis would be easier to find when using WikiDiscover as a user would be able to use multiple tags to find a wiki that matches all of them for example. There are two main ways this can be done, one proposes categories be kept but that they be complemented by tags which would allow you to narrow your search within a category. Another is to abolish the category system and replace it entirely with a tagging system. So now, we want to hear from you. What do you think we should do going forward? Let us know below and help SRE shape the future of WikiDiscover and categories. Note: If you oppose both proposals that means that you wish to keep the current category only system. Agent Isai Talk to me! 04:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 1: Keep categories and add tags

 * Categories will be kept as they are but in addition it will be possible to add a maximum of 5 pre-defined tags for each wiki

Support

 * 1)  While I generally wouldn't vote in an RfF I thought I should here. The reason why I think we should preserve categories in addition to tags is because it would allow us to see what how many wikis dedicated for a main topic we have (gaming, fandom, etc.). I also think some wikis would still like to have a main overarching category that defines their main scope as well as more specific additional tags. For example, Meta's main category would be "community" but it could also have tags like "central wiki" and "official wiki" or something like that depending on what we might later decide regarding tags if they are implemented. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:09, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  While I'm generally in favor of Proposal 1 (retaining legacy wiki categories for those that make use of them just makes sense, tags seem like they add depth and enhance categories instead of being a distraction), I'd like to hear any compelling arguments for the alternative before fully supporting this option. NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 08:21, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  I feel like this option will work very well if all tags are more specific in comparison to categories, in order to make both features differ enough. It would allow for both broad and more detailed categorisation, of course if all tags are available regardless of the category chosen (so the problem of wikis that can fit in many categories isn't made worse). I can see the benefit of being able to group wikis into main categories and then narrow the number of results from there using tags for sure.  Xena   (talk)  09:17, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  Searching for new wikis on Miraheze is nothing short of a chore, not helping that Miraheze wikis aren't optimized for SEO, meaning wikis are even harder to find on search sites. Most attempts to mediate the issue have been middling at worst, and somewhat helpful at best, and I think this would be for the better. Tags could be a great way to find wikis in my interest, possibly a wiki search system could make tags extremely useful. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 11:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5) as I belive it will make it easier to find wikis, ESPECIALLY since we have over 5000 wikis --The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 14:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6) I think categories should be kept, but it makes sense to add tags. OrangeStar (talk) 17:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 7)  It seems to me that the main argument that exists for keeping a single category system in addition to a novel tagging system is for statistical purposes. I will admit I am not very convinced by this argument but I also believe there is no disadvantage to also keeping main broad categories. In either case I believing that allowing for more specific tags for wikis may be beneficial to them for searching purposes.  --DeeM28 (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 8) per above. Tali64³ (talk) 22:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 9) Miraheze will be easier to use if this is decided. by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 09:58, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 10) I like the idea of retaining categories to allow wikis to set a broad "topic", with the tags providing any additional necessary detail. I'd also like to see the categories list reworked slightly to remove any overly specific categories and add a "multiple categories" option. Sario528 (talk) 12:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 11) I run a small wiki on here, [memebattleroyale.miraheze.org this is the wiki] and I will use tags. If they're easy to use. Garfnoblade (talk) 23:01, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Remove categories and add tags

 * Categories will be completely replaced by tags and a maximum of 5 pre-defined tags for each wiki

Support

 * 1)  (While I'm already supporting Proposal 1, I have a few reasons to support this one as well) Removing categories altogether might be the way to fix the problem of wikis which scope fits into more than one category. For the ease of transition, all current categories could be added as respective tags, so broad categorisation would still be possible, but optional. I feel like using tags only could make the searching system more free, but only if checking all available tag options is doable easily (just like now while choosing the category, they all appear in a drop-down list).  Xena   (talk)  09:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  For the reasons given in Proposal 1 I support adding tags to wikis. I am mostly indifferent as to whether they complement or replace categories but I support the idea of giving wikis the choice to also have tags and be discoverable via Special:WikiDiscover. --DeeM28 (talk) 19:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  No real point in doing this. Tags would be helpful but not helpful enough to completely replace categories. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 11:14, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  In most cases, categories are useful for determining the "general location" of a wiki a user wants to find. Tags are a supplement to help decrease the amount of wikis the user has to sift through to find the one they want. Tali64³ (talk) 19:03, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1) While I am generally more in favor of Proposal 1, I'd like to hear any compelling reasons to remove categories entirely instead of just adding more emphasis on tags on discovery-related pages before making up my mind. NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 08:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Image display issue
I'm still aware of the file migration currently ongoing, but wanted to note that the Gnawty article on DKpedia has been having issues with displaying its images (because they're still on static.miraheze.org instead of static-new.miraheze.org, the latter of which it's pointing to) yet Donkey Kong article seems to be displaying just fine Bawitdaba (talk) 22:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like you're having the same problem as AWW. It's because the wikifarm is migrating to a new storage backend. Give it some time and it will solve itself. OrangeStar (talk)
 * I'm very sorry, I didn't read your message fully, it seems you already know about the migration. Give it some time and it will solve itself when the files are copied over. OrangeStar (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Good to know, thank you Bawitdaba (talk) 18:14, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Request to leave Miraheze
Unfortunately, I have to leave Miraheze for my academic life. Do you apply global barrier?  Hey Türkiye  message? 16:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You can request this at Steward's noticeboard as a Global Lock. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 16:10, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

How to fix/debug: This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested
Probably a total rookie question, but I've read about how to handle files and see nothing related, so ...

I'm getting the error "This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested" when I try to access a file I just uploaded. I used the "Upload files" link under Tools in the menu at left. I did not see any options on the upload relating to setting upload location or permissions. The FAQ on handling files reads as if everything should just work -- it has no info on config that needs to be set to allow permission, and seems to have no info on problems like mine. I should mention that this is a PDF file. I've enabled the PDF Handler and PDF Embed. I would welcome help, even RTFM if you can point me to the FM that I haven't discovered so I can R it. I have tried both and File:filename.pdf. I can see the file on "Special pages:File list", and it knows it's a PDF. I'm too ignorant to know what to look at next. Thanks. Rreynolds (talk) 17:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Is this still occurring? What wiki is this happening on? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

How do I make a bot for my wiki?
I wanted to make a bot for my Talk About It! wiki but I have no clue how to make one. I wanted one so the bot would make randomized post and upload random images for random threads and random replies and just overall do things on my wiki so it wouldn't close down (basically a bot that acts like a random mirahezen). Does any steward know if this is possible and if I can clone those bots too? CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ummm, I doubt Stewards will like that kind of bot. OrangeStar (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If you want to avoid your wiki from being closed down due to inactivity, and have a good reason, you should request a Dormancy Policy exemption, instead of making these kinds of bots. OrangeStar (talk) 20:54, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Moved to Community noticeboard as this isn't a matter for Stewards. As for your question, are you using DPLForum or something for your wiki? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:44, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok but I still want the bots. May I have the bots? --CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 17:28, 4 November 2022 (UTC) I want the bots for funny funny purposes--CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 16:20, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I doubt anyone is going to help you write that kind of bot. OrangeStar (talk) 17:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

>:( --CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 01:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Bots must be manually coded by a user (presumably you) and run on a computer (can be anything really, Rasberry Pi, Windows 10, etc). It's a long process, so I highly suggest reading this page on mediawiki.org. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 18:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ok CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:26, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * does it work with scratch? that's the only coding language I know :/ CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably not. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:33, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for changing my wiki's local interwiki table
I need one of Interwiki Administrator to modify my local wiki's interwiki table.

Local Wiki: sfacgn.miraheze.org

Desired local interwiki table entries: ShengFu (talk) 08:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, kindly give my account (User:Ugochimobi) a member right or make your wiki public in Special:ManageWiki for the meantime. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   12:51, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have changed your account with "Confirmed users", "Editor", and "Member" groups. And changed the local wiki to public. Anything else? ShengFu (talk) 14:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * All done. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   15:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I have tested some interwiki links, and they work as I wish. You done a very good job. ShengFu (talk) 15:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

survey/poll regarding donation models
It is likely that many Miraheze users have seen developments related to a social media platform and a new funding model that its new owner has in mind. Miraheze is different as it is a non profit company and all funds must go to the platform and nothing ele. Miraheze's current donation model is simple - people donate the sum of their choice at the date of their choice. Miraheze's current spending model (as I understand it to be) is also relatively simple - funds go to servers/infrastructure and associated costs. As an experiment I would like to address some questions in the form of a poll/survey to the community. I know this is very unusual and it is likely that I will not elicit many responses. I will say from the outset that I do not believe that these questions will garner much support but I simply wish to confirm my prior thoughts about what the commnity's views on the matter are. DeeM28 (talk) 12:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Important Clarification: I wish to make clear that I have had no discussions with anyone affiliated with Miraheze about this and this is something I have thought about enterily by myself. I do not wish people to believe that this proposal is being made by someone affiliated to Miraheze and this is something planned for the future as some people may worry about this. --DeeM28 (talk) 12:25, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

=== #1: Would you be in favor of a specially created 'role' on Miraheze that would have to donate a small sum (i.e. $5/month) and get minimal additional "features"? If yes, what "features" would you have in mind? ===
 * 1) Opposing for features. The donator role is fine. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) All of Miraheze's features should be available to anyone, regardless of if they have donated. Locking features behind a paywall is a step closer to YouTube and is not where any wiki farm (even Fandom, a for-profit that is chock full of ads) wants to go. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * More like a step closer to Discord. Naleksuh (talk) 16:19, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) because there is no need for this --The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 14:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) "Freemium" in this way (locking off features that already exist natively in MediaWiki) seems wrong. I could entertain tipping extension-builders or creating a small pool for developer compensation, though that could form its own rats-nest of conflict and diluted run-the-business revenue for Miraheze proper.  NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 18:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 4) I just don't like these kinds of things. OrangeStar (talk) 19:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 5) It would sound like Miraheze is adding microtransactions if passes. However, the "donator" role is fine as long as it doesn't have additional rights (therefore it is not pay-to-win as usual with cosmetic microtransactions). TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 18:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

=== #2: Would you be in favor of a system where wikis which are consuming a very large amount of disk space and/or have a large user base should have to pay a minimal donation to Miraheze? (this would be a small sum) ===
 * 1) No opinion --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) for similar reasoning as my vote in Proposal 1. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 4) Communities and individuals already have the opportunity to donate should they feel the desire to do so, I'd prefer we set reasonable boundaries as a community for 'acceptable resource use' instead of creating a pay-for-play system of tiered products. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:48, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

#3: Would it make you want to contribute to Miraheze's technical team (such as a developer or infrastructure engineer) if you were paid a small amount of money for some tasks?

 * 1) No opinion. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) This sounds a lot like users making money off of a non-profit. I'm not sure about British laws governing non-profit corporations, but if Miraheze were located in the United States, this would be a huge legal issue. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC) Struck out reasoning because it was flawed. However, my vote still stands. Miraheze is a community of volunteers, not a for-profit business. Tali64³ (talk) 18:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, Miraheze isn't considered to be a "non profit" in the UK since the only similar structure that exists is "charity" which Miraheze wasn't eligible for. It operates as a "not-for-profit" and as such all donations go back to the project itself. At this time there are no plans to pay volunteers and funds are allocated to infrastructure and related costs. As a side note though, I'm sure larger non-profits in the US do pay their employees and volunteers for their work. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:42, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Non-profits can pay their employees, see the Wikimedia Foundation as an example, and in many cases (in the United States at least) must pay them under the Fair Labor Standards Act. What non-profit indicates is that a corporation isn't operating with the goal to earn a profit or to prioritize profits over their goal. Miraheze however is a not-for-profit organisation. Not-for-profit further means that most, if not all money funnels back to the organisation to try and keep it afloat which is what we are, we don't pay anyone, but that doesn't restrict being compensated for work. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 14:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Quoting Agent straight from above, Non-profits can pay their employees, see the Wikimedia Foundation as an example, and in many cases (in the United States at least) must pay them under the Fair Labor Standards Act. What non-profit indicates is that a corporation isn't operating with the goal to earn a profit or to prioritize profits over their goal. Miraheze however is a not-for-profit organisation. Not-for-profit further means that most, if not all money funnels back to the organisation to try and keep it afloat which is what we are, we don't pay anyone, but that doesn't restrict being compensated for work. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 16:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) I have seen other not-for-profits go this route with some success - given that a stable foundation is critical to delivering on the intended mission, increasing the incentive to attract/retain SRE/developers/infrastructure team members even by a minor gratuity may be worth considering.  That said, my weak support is due to concerns about potential labor & employment law problems down the road if pursued. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) I personally wouldn't contribute to those things because of money, but of course, this is just because of personal opinions regarding me working in, well, IT in general. As an incentive for others, however, I doubt this is effective at attracting talent. OrangeStar (talk) 19:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

General comments

 * What I might suggest here is a model where certain wikis may be able to get certain 'premium' features (purely additional to what is already offered) if they pay a minimal fee, and possibly an inherent DP exemption that lasts as long as that commitment lasts (DP exemptions would be considered as normal but require justification, as now, and be subject to periodic review as now). I would not be in favor of users getting any particular bling or modification for payment. Drive space/the ability to be a bit more of a file host by design could be a component to this payment idea. I suspect a number of people would be willing to chip in for a nominal fee on the tech side but I doubt many of those people are actually already present on Miraheze and outreach would be required to pursue that idea. There are dangers but I've personally mused over a 'donation' in the form of paying someone to make certain things (in an open, easily updated and sustainable way) that will help out the platform in a tech and feature capacity. Even if that is say, updates to the usability of extensions that we offer. It's an interesting topic and maybe it's something Miraheze will have to consider seriously if it finds itself more strapped in the future. Obviously any of this would have to be approached with the upmost caution to retain trust. I think we also need to do more operational cleanup for these ideas to even be considered, as there are few things worse than controversies of a platform with paid components being in over its head. Introducing any of this would also change the model in a way that might damage the image of the platform, and is something that would only go over well if a/the platform was made for it in the first place. --Raidarr (talk) 13:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think right now we aren't doing terribly in terms of finance therefore making these proposals unnecessary at this time. If the third proposal is aimed at attempting to attract more technical volunteers (which we do very much need!) I'm not sure how efficient that would be given that most tasks aren't tasks that require investing a large amount of time into them. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand very much that the ideas I propose are not attractive from an ideological and principles perspective. I imagined that the community would oppose in the way that it does. The only worry that I have is that even if there are supposedly enough funds right now - are there enough for real growth of the project or just preserving the status quo and slowly upgrading things here and there? --DeeM28 (talk) 15:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that the meltdown of twitter is a good growth opportunity for a wiki website. Completely separate ecosystems. "I have had no discussions with anyone affiliated with Miraheze about this" says it all. Go play with Fandom if you wanna see where this kind of thinking leads.
 * Further to the above, Twitter is merely the newest organization to see that growth achieved by giving stuff away free is not necessarily sustainable when it collides with a corporate business model involving imposing fees (for premium stuff or for mere access). The Fandom analog with which I'm familiar is attaching volunteer unpaid contributions to paid advertisements the authors don't want.  In either case, the corporate response is:  We run the place, and you are merely the chumps!  Indeed it is not a "growth opportunity," especially if, according to Reception123, we are not desperate.   02:58 12-Nov-2022

Problem with the borders of the circles
I have a slight problem with some of my borders. As I show you here: https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:R5, I couldn't figure out how to place simple borders that I could color. I can only put double borders, or single borders or all black, which is not what I want. I could use some guidance. Thanks in advance. Darkrai18 (talk) 17:32, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Problem with uploading media files
I have a problem with my wiki that I cannot upload media files, the error is: "An unknown error occurred in storage backend "miraheze-swift"." How can this be fixed? Thank you. Verycutecat (talk) 10:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello.Have you reported on Phabricator？ by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 16:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have yet to create a task on Phabricator because the problem isn't explicitly with the files being missed like the banner said; and I am not sure how to add tags to the task properly, what's the project for this kind of problem? Thank you. Verycutecat (talk) 18:50, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I see.OrangeStar made a report.Probably this problem will be solved by his/her action.Let's wait until being solved.Thank you. by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 10:52, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Issue was solved, at least on AdvanceWarsWiki. OrangeStar (talk) 13:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm having the same issues when both uploading and deleting files. I reported it on Phabricator: . OrangeStar (talk) 16:29, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Add an interwiki to zhdel
zhdel.miraheze.org would like to have a interwikilink to zh.wikipedia.org (Chinese Wikipedia), desired configurations are listed below:

Tiger (talk) 22:19, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For the record I handled this already per the phab task. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   22:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

wikitrash
hi, I recently went to my wikitrash page in Italian and I can't see anything anymore because everything has become private, I would like to ask how can I go back to see how before please ???

https://wikitrash.miraheze.org/wiki/Pagina_principale

HELP!!!!!

A1cb3 (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Is the wiki private? --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:05, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Checking Special:ManageWiki/core/wikitrashwiki, it seems so. Unfortunately you will need to contact local bureaucrats/administrators for access. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not a Bureaucrats in the wiki I requested, is that the norm?
Hello, I was just curious if not being Bureaucrats in the wiki I requested (https://ewgf.miraheze.org) is the norm. I am asking because i wanted to enable some extensions, but I am not able to. Iroi97 (talk) 20:15, 8 November 2022 (UTC)


 * It is indeed not. You can ask a steward to add the rights via this noticeboard. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 20:20, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, as I also mentioned on the Phabricator task that you opened the original account that requested the wiki isn't this one but Iroi so that's the account that has bureaucrats/administrator rights. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 20:20, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

How do I tell people about my new wiki?
How do I tell others about my wiki? The link is here. Garfnoblade (talk) 00:14, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * SEO is the best way to get others to know about your wiki. It's hard to perform but it's worth it. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 00:16, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Promote it on social as often as you can, as well as avenues relevant to your site's topic(s)/scope. For a good idea of how well your outreach is going, you can view Matomo-powered Special:Analytics on your wiki (specifically the Site Referrals/Search Keywords/Social Networks/Websites tabs). --Routhwick (talk) 10:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

How to resolve Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'strict' not found
On my Mizaheze wiki, the error Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'strict' not found, has started appearing on many templates, I imported a bunch a few weeks back and am assuming that is where the issue started, how do I resolve this issue? VexilNB (talk) 15:58, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, the same happened here in Meta just yesterday on one of the modules. Please take a look at Agent Isai's fix here. You can also just import the templates again. OrangeStar (talk) 16:08, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

My opinion about the removing of the Wiki's
In my opinion we should not remove the wikis. If we removed the wikis due to argument and turmoil, we should just ban other social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, heck even YouTube. In my opinion (and I know you all have made your decision with the network bureaucrats and stuff like that.) there should have been better mods. I didn't even look at the comments for the most part I was focused on the sites and reviews on why works of art(movies,games,shows,books)were considered good or bad. I feel like it was like YouTube in a figurative sense. Figuratively I just watch the videos and do not read the comments. I feel like with removing the wikis I feel like the constitutional Freedom of Speech we have is violated. I feel like we should be a able to express our love or hate for entertainment media. We should have just had the people guilty of spreading violence and toxicity held accountable. Think about Batman. In Batman Begins, Batman trains with the League of Shadows who believes that Gotham is not worth saving and must be destroyed, however Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn't believe that(1). He believes that Gotham: the city he loves, the city that literally murdered his parents, is worth saving. Now are we going to let Miraheze get ravaged and destroyed by the League of Shadows or are we going to fight for the survival of our.

Sources (1)Batman Begins Directed by Christopher Nolan, performances by Christen Bale, Cillian Murphy and Micheal Caine, Warner Brothers,2005. 67.189.68.211 18:23, 12 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Qualitipedia (what I assume you're referring to) was not closed by Stewards. It was closed following a successful community RfC. Tali64³ (talk) 18:46, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Noted 67.189.68.211 20:32, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Why is this on Miraheze Meta? Wouldn't this be more appropriate on Qualitipedia Meta? --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 20:11, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Concur. There is otherwise quite a lot here that is just very off, not least of which the bizarre inappropriate mention of "freedom of speech" which is not a reference applicable to Miraheze or really any internet entity. --Raidarr (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Quite. The U.S. Constitution (Amendment I) does not say speech is always free; merely that it is never criminal.  And least of all that you are entitled to a service being provided to you at no cost and for all your videos to be where you want them to be.  In any case, Miraheze is now incorporated abroad.   23:02 13-Nov-2022
 * many people decided to close this because of drama, bias, etc. I decided because of these things, LTA's, and politics. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 00:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * why are you spamming the noticeboard Chantolove (talk) 16:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Special pages do not work
I have a problem with my wiki. I clicked some random things and the Special pages do not work. Here is the wiki: https://axolotelcountry.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page Axolotel Ukraine (talk) 11:48, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi.How about making a report on Phabricator?Thanks by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 13:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

DB141 wikis (e.g. The Bat Man Wiki) does not work as expected?
I try acessing the Bat Man Wiki, but the following message showed:

“Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.

Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.

Cannot access the database: Cannot access the database: Connection refused (db141) (db141))”

I also accessed other wiki, but this still happened.

What's wrong with DB141 wikis? How did this happen?


 * As the error notes, there are malfunctions in the database and any wiki based on DB141 is having issues. SRE is currently troubleshooting. Resolution time depends how long it takes to get a more experienced infrastructure member involved to take a look and fix the issues; it is known and in discussion on Discord. It is an ongoing situation; apologies for the inconvenience. Someone from SRE will likely make a statement on Meta later. --Raidarr (talk) 14:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I hope the db141 wikis are recoverable, as I've invested a lot into Mariopedia (which has been down all day). Thankfully the other wikis I edit haven't been having this issue. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:01, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Mariopedia isn't the only one with this issue (Polandball, Qualtipedia Meta) The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 05:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * And Webkinz Guide, too. I really hope this issue gets fixed soon, because Webkinz World recently had its monthly update and that means new items. Unfortunately, this error is preventing users from uploading images of the new items. Very frustrating...please fix! Buzzfan120 (talk) 06:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Now Webkinz Guide is displaying a "Wiki not found" message. I really hope it didn't end up getting deleted.... Buzzfan120 (talk) 21:20, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * They are unlinked in CentralAuth to correct the login issue. All affected wikis are known and recovery is being worked on. --Raidarr (talk) 21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * So the data isn't lost or corrupted, is that correct? If the wikis aren't privately backed up by Miraheze monthly, I think needs to. Better safe than sorry. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I will be frank: there is no promise that data wasn't lost. There was hardware failure involving two drives; they will be inspected and recovery efforts will be made by a reputable third party as needed assuming they were indeed the sole culprits. Better backup practices and fallback will be required going forward. But this should be taken as somewhat authoritative hearsay and not an official notice: the extent is not entirely known yet. --Raidarr (talk) 22:48, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah this is why I was saying that a lesson from this is for Miraheze to do better backup practices in the future. At least the images are at least stored on the servers, from what I've noticed. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a tracking task for backups. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 01:04, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The wiki is hidden from view so users who visited the wiki can login globally. It's (hopefully) not gone forever. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 21:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Free Editing Wiki is down too. 1.158.238.102 22:12, 18 November 2022 (UTC) freeediting.miraheze.org
 * So that ...... When will they fixed? Also, a language bug occurred again! I set my interface language in "Preferences" to foreign language in Meta and some other wikis, but when I try editing pages (including this page), it shows by English! Even if some foreign language wikis' default language is their own language, their interface language became English. Again! Another bug occurred. What's wrong with that?
 * No ETA on when db141 is going back up. As for the latter, I can't answer that. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 13:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Couldn't we just move these wikis to a different database? Would that solve the problem? Buzzfan120 (talk) 03:13, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Could someone tell me the problem with this template?
https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:Galerie When I want to place a "caption1" template, no problem. But when I place a "caption2", everything goes wrong. It is incomprehensible. Thanks in advance for your help. Darkrai18 (talk) 10:07, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

CSS customization for the Vector skin
I want to customize the Vector legacy skin for my apperance but it doesn't work in full scale since CSS classes changed in newer MediaWiki versions. The code is on User:Vlad26t/vector.css. Vlad26t (talk) 16:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * In trying to assist here, I encountered an issue of my own. I set my skin to Vector Legacy and it just gives me Vector 2022, as though the Legacy skin was somehow missing. Perhaps another side effect of db141 going down, but still worth noting here. Hb1290 (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I checked around on Wikipedia and the toolbar doesn't seem to have an unique CSS class. You can use their ids, however.
 * "Page" -> ca-nstab-main
 * "Talk" -> ca-talk
 * "Read" -> ca-view
 * "Edit" -> ca-edit
 * "View source" (protected pages) -> ca-view-source
 * "View history" -> ca-history
 * "Add topic" -> ca-addsection
 * "Watch" -> ca-watch
 * "Unwatch" -> ca-unwatch
 * Sorry, I'm not exactly good at CSS, this is all I can help with. OrangeStar (talk) 15:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That still doesn't give me an expected appearance. Is there anybody good at CSS? Vlad26t (talk) 07:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

日本語で失礼します～
Wiki作成はどうやるのでしょうか？--Hysije (talk) 11:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Hysije：Special:RequestWikiに移動して、必要事項を記入してください. コンテンツ・ポリシーに違反していたり、トピックについての説明が足りない申請は受理されません. 詳しい記事がDochouseというWikiにあるので、参考にしてみてください. --<font color="#000000">1108-Kiju / ▶ <font color="#000000">Talk 11:38, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 主に3行程度、なぜウィキを作成したいのか、理由を書くと担当者によって受理されます. ここのホスティングサービスはサーバーがイギリスにあるので日本法は適用されないことに注意しましょう. by Buel ·Talk·e-mail 13:31, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 一応日本法は適用されますよ. <font color="#000000">1108-Kiju / ▶ <font color="#000000">Talk  13:45, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

When will the db141 be fixed
P.S. (I'm Unreal_Neo Encyclopedia Wiki's Creator, My Wiki won't work)

When will it be possible to fix the db141(cloud14) and make it viewable in the Wiki hosted by the database...

I'm really worried that this accident will result in the loss of all the data on it, because I don't have any backup records yet... Sucrose Fans Rosalina129 04:57, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * unknown. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 05:54, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No clear ETA; updates are offered as they happen on Tech:SRE noticeboard. --Raidarr (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

What's happening to the wikis?
I keep trying to access wikis on this site like Random Wiki or The Reception Wikis Wiki, and all I get is an error message that says "Wiki Temporarily Unavailable". This has been going on for 3 days straight, and honestly, this is starting to get worrysome. I can understand this site's wikis not working for a couple hours, but 3 days? That's unbelievable. Can this be fixed? SuperStreetKombat (talk) 18:46, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * See Tech:SRE noticeboard. --Routhwick (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I wish we had an ETA for when this issue will be fixed. I don't know how much longer I can wait and I really hope this gets fixed soon. Buzzfan120 (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * What if we moved the affected wikis to a different database? Do you suppose that might work? Buzzfan120 (talk) 03:27, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The affected wikis are inaccessible, thus moving them is impossible. There will be updates once the failed drives involved can be physically looked at and recovered if necessary. --Raidarr (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's just hope that this error doesn't last as long as that one time where comments were buffering or when comments in discussion tabs duplicated last year. SuperStreetKombat (talk) 08:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Moved to CN as it does not require Steward intervention. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 01:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Trouble with the Infobox and Sidebar templates
I'm having trouble with the appearance of my templates https://t2k.miraheze.org/wiki/Phoenicia For lack of a better word, the issue I'm having is that the infobox isn't "enclosed", there isn't a box/border where it's supposed to be. All the other features like the content list inside the infobox itself is functioning properly.

https://t2k.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Market_socialism_sidebar As for this, the collapsibles for the sidebar don't work.

How should I go about fixing this? Sylepieus (talk) 06:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)