Community noticeboard

Improving password standards on Miraheze

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Site Reliability Engineering would like to thank all participants in this Request for Feedback for sharing their thoughts, comments and concerns. Your feedback is very important to us and always plays an important role in any decision-making and we assure you that we will take all of this feedback into consideration. For more technical information on this task, please see T7713. Thank you! Agent Isai  Talk to me! 03:57, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello all,

In order to comply with the latest security standards, the SRE team wishes to slowly increase password requirements to require that passwords are at least 12 characters.

The plan we thought of would be to progressively institute these requirements: first for global groups, after for local administrators, bureaucrats and bots and finally to extend the longer password requirements to the entire user base.

Before we go ahead with these changes we would like to get feedback from the community, so please do feel free to raise any concerns or provide any feedback you may have or ask us questions about this change and we would be happy to respond.

Thanks, Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:09, 4 September 2021 (UTC)


 * 1) My feedback is that this policy is as dumb as most of our Covid-related policy that assumes attaining Zero Risk is more important than living our lives.  Anyone who wants the additional security of a longer password can have one instantly.  There is no need to mandate that the entire user base do anything (except perhaps to those with power over the website) except to pat yourselves on the backs for having done something.  If someone is actually asking for this, then implement a customization option for individual wikis where their administration can enforce password length if desired.   20:34 4-Sep-2021
 * 2) Is there a demonstrated need on Miraheze that would entail people changing in this way? I have not seen enough of a wider requirement or evidence on the internet of widespread compromise to think this is in any way necessary. --Raidarr (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, not sure if this is exactly necessary. I have yet to see any reports of recent account attacks. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 23:02, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * How is the server protected against such attacks? I think that adding a one second delay after each failed login attempt for a specific user name and IP would prevent such attacks from beeing successful, am I wrong? WHen yes, where is the flow in my considerations? LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 08:13, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Support for global groups, but not for local groups. The current status quo for many of Miraheze's affairs is to let local wikis govern themselves and decide on their own policies, and only intervene when there is a legal obligation to do so, or if there is a ToU violation. Global groups should absolutely have strict password policies, because users with such groups can affect all of Miraheze. However, for local admins and bureaucrats, it's best to leave strong passwords as a recommendation rather than a requirement. Local wiki communities can decide on their own password policies if they so choose. As for the entire user base, I don't think it's necessary. A good idea in theory, but in practice it might not do much to encourage better password use. For all we know, someone who's password is the unacceptably insecure "password" could easily change it to "passwordpassword" to get their password up to 16 characters and meet the requirement, yet still have a terrible password.
 * Also, may I ask, what exactly are the "latest security standards" that you're referring to? If by "latest security standards", we mean "using HTTPS", "hashing passwords", and "keeping up to speed with security patches", we're already doing that, right? — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 23:24, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) not sure what that current mandated length is, but 12 seems too long to me. 8, sure, I'd understand, that's common practice. enforcing numbers and special characters, also good. but 12 digits? for casual users? we'd see a huge uptick in password resets. I can maybe see the benefits for global groups, admins, bots, the like (i.e. people who's accounts could damage wikis if compromised) but for someone who logs in once every six months? not worth it imo. also, which security standards are you referring to? you mention "the latest" - who's latest? Amazingakita (talk) 08:57, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I only want to say that lenght and complexity checkings are ok (mine already is complex and long enough) but I don't agree with checks that compare the previous password with the new one. If I change a password (imagine, because I want it, not because a data breach) I don't want to lose that password forever. Jakeukalane (talk)
 * Hi, I'm also wondering what the "latest security standards" are. Is it some kind of policy that Miraheze has to abide by? Regardless of that, I'm ok with enforcing stronger passwords for users who have potentially destructive permissions, both locally and globally (deleting, blocking, editing interface, etc.). For users without these permissions, maybe there could be a warning with a "your password is not secure" message that the user can dismiss? Just an idea! --Ondo (talk) 10:45, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Pls do not change the current standards for passwords on Miraheze. I totally agree with Spike that everyone is free to chose a password as long as he likes. I would really hate to change my Miraheze passwords. All these password requirements (special character, number, small/big letter etc.) on many websites are really annoying me, so pls do not introduce a new password policy, thank you, LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 21:29, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Please DO increase password security. This is common sense, and a reality online to protect people's accounts from being easily broken into. I use a password manager that generates random string 20+ character passwords. Working in tech, I can say that increases in password security is just the way things are going to keep modernizing. Fighting that makes little sense because it's going to have to be done elsewhere eventually anyhow and is increasingly insisted on, on other sites. Insecure accounts can affect the Miraheze community because of the unified login; these logins being usable on other wikis can be problematic when an account is easily broken into. I would hope people would consider please keeping up with the tech and being realistic about what that often looks like today. CrystalClear (talk) 22:10, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This is frankly not my experience even including services like Discord, Protonmail and Gmail (though Gmail is aggressive in pushing alternative functions anyways). The path of inevitability is not as clear cut as this would make it seem, at least from allegorical experience that would be easy to find. Though this is not to say that these password changes wouldn't have some benefit, and that people shouldn't be going well past them anyways. But frankly, unless you have responsibility that obliges you to more cutting edge protection, it's discretion I'd rather see users retain until it is demonstrably no longer viable on the internet. --Raidarr (talk) 09:18, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) I do not see a strong need to increase the password requirements as proposed. As with K6ka's comment, I do  increased password security and two-factor authentication for users holding global groups (to be clear, wiki creator and interwiki administrator should not count as global groups for this purpose). I'm speaking of the SRE, Trust and Safety, and Stewards groups, principally because the   group on Miraheze is not the same as the   group on other wikis, as Miraheze has ManageWiki which provides for the granting of user group permissions without having to have the   user right that would otherwise provide access to the most sensitive, restricted user groups. I also feel that twelve characters is too much, but would support a 9-10 character minimum, with a combination of a minimum of one capitalized character, one non-alphanumeric character, and a mix of numeric and alphabetic characters. Dmehus (talk) 01:54, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I this as well. Coming from a company where this has been mandatory since years I would like to have this level of security here as well, especially because of the global login. Password managers can deal with even longer PWs, just saying. Soukupmi (talk) 07:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) You say "latest security standards", yet provide no evidence for how this is considered to be so. Considering that I haven't seen any widely used platforms make such a change to password length, this change seems to lack any sort of proper reason behind it from what I can see. K599 (talk) 20:53, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) It is my opinion that in this matter it is necessary to take a balanced and reasonable approach rather than a overreaching one. Unlike some comments above suggest I do not believe that it is unreasonable to require a certain password length and I think this is a sensible approach. That being said I do not agree with imposing a 12 character password for all users indiscriminately. This is because as many users have said before me the SRE team does not provide us with any justification or evidence to justify such a measure. If there have not been any accounts that have been hijacked why is it necessary to take such a measure right now? Is there a security risk we do not know about? I believe that in terms of regular users there is no need to change the current requirements and that users with low level access should make their own decisions regarding password length. I have personally not seen another website that has such strict requirements for lay-users. However, I do think that all global groups with significant power (such as Stewards, System Administrators and Global Sysops) should have this requirement as an extra safety precaution. I would not necessarily disagree with local groups such as administrator and bureaucrat having the requirement but I tend to lean towards the direction of them not having this requirement for the time being unless an actual need is proven. In conclusion, my current opinion is that an all encompassing requirement is inappropriate at the time but I would be willing to change my opinion if the SRE team will provide me with a reasoned explanation and justification for these measures other than just to be very careful. To be more clear after reading all the comments again my opinion is closest to that of Dmehus which I would support and which I find the most reasoned. --DeeM28 (talk) 20:12, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

Miraheze @ Wikimania 2023
Hello,

During today's Miraheze Meeting, we confirmed that in 2023 we are considering attending Wikimania. If you'd like to join the party or get further information, please fill out https://forms.gle/GT2VCeRSCw9NdmR6A and we'll be in touch! RhinosF1 (Miraheze) (talk) 22:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * !mpressive early preparation start :-) --ZBlace (talk) 06:41, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Interwiki
hi, staff you can help me my two wiki 麥克百科 wikiand日語-麥克百科事典 wiki inter language? thanks.--Msnhinet8 (talk) 08:14, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅, check your local Special:Log/interwiki for confirmation. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:17, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ok,thanks.--Msnhinet8 (talk) 08:22, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

How to change font
Hi, I want to customize the font of my wiki. I tried to change the css file a lot of ways, but I can't use a google font (EB Garamond in particular). I tried a lot of possibile sintaxes, but nothing seems to work. Adri Ikharai (talk) 07:31, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I've had help with this before, maybe it'll help you. Raichu&#39;s Endless Nights (talk) 07:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Tibi gratias fa pro me servando Adri Ikharai (talk) 08:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Page previews
Is it possible to add page previews to a miraheze wiki, like the ones that appear on Wikipedia? (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Page_Previews) TomebinderL (talk) 15:16, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is. To enable it, please go to Special:ManageWiki/extensions on your wiki and enable "Popups" Agent Isai  Talk to me! 16:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! TomebinderL (talk) 18:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Where is my old request?
I had a Fancade Wiki request. Because I lost it, I had to create a new one. It appears declined. Can you find the old one? TylerMagee (talk) 21:36, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Your original request for a  is #21420. Both your old and new request were declined because they lacked a good reason. Please edit your wiki request and expand on your wiki's scope in 2-3 sentences (e.g. "My wiki will focus on X and will document Y and Z", etc.) and we'll process it again, thanks.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 22:23, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Templates and tags
Hi, Could you please tell me where I may find
 * a list of common templates like as in m2 ?
 * a list of common tags like  ·   ·  ·  · [[Category:]]
 * Translations: · ·  · 
 * It's already there. You want to put it on your wiki or what? Anpang   Talk   Stuff  02:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

One of my posts that I last updated November 18th is gone
I had a post on the noticeboard that I intended to update regularly. I last updated it on November 18, and according to the edit history of the noticeboard, it was archived three days later, on November 21st. How long will it take to update Revibot to only archive posts that have had no activity for 14 days? I know how to retrieve my post, but I'm unable to do so because I'm posting from a Nintendo Switch (it has an internet browser, but it can't be easily accessed. There are many tutorials online on how to access it, if you want to), which doesn't have a copy-and-paste feature. Also, where can I put my post so that this doesn't happen again? Tali64³ (talk) 17:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

interwiki

 * Hi staff, can help me オンライン百科事典 wiki interwiki 网路百科 wiki? thanks.--Msnhinet8 (talk) 12:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For the record, this has been ✅ by Ugochimobi (talk) 21:23, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Problem with reCAPTCHA when creating a account
Hi, When I attempt to create an account, I get this : "reCAPTCHA validation failed: score retrieved from server is lower than the minimum required score. Please try again later. If problems persist, please contact sre-mediawiki@miraheze.org."

Does anybody knows why?

In fact no captcha appears, and there is no adblock or alike on my Firefox.

What appends ? -- Webmaster1 (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Please email cvt@undefinedmiraheze.org to request they make an account for you. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 22:05, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, I will. But here I wanted to know what happens.
 * Is that ok, if no captcha is proposed ? Isn't it a problem on miraheze.org ?
 * In fact I hate to have people at cvt(at)miraheze.org loose their time with such a boredom... Webmaster1 (talk) 22:30, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

How do I add a background theme to my wiki?
want to make the background color of my wiki, Appalling TikToks Wiki, black, but I don't know how. SleepParalysisDemon (talk) 19:32, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Check https://pastebin.com/QSpDFPAx
 * I will try polishing it later, and will give you updates when I do (to allow other things to be visible) -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 00:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Extensions not clickable
To allow Youtube embedding, I am trying to click on the Youtube extension box; however, none of the boxws in Special:ManageWiki/extensions are clickable? HID&#38;GEM (talk) 00:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


 * What exactly? Are the checkboxes grayed out? Anpang   Talk   Stuff  02:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For the record, this was resolved on Discord. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 02:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

SVG Program
Anyone to recommend me some FREE program that converts images to SVG without it going blank on the wiki? YellowFrogger (✉ Talk  ✐ Edits ) 04:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Could you clarify what you mean about it "going blank on the wiki"? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:27, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * When you use these random google sites, and go to upload file on wiki, stay all white. But I believe it's not the wiki. YellowFrogger (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 04:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok, this isn't really an answer, but can you just redraw it in a vector drawing program? Anpang   Talk   Stuff  04:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion: Confirmation when clicking Logout
My computer is a laptop with a touchpad. Sometimes I accidentally touch the touchpad and move and the touchpad would move the cursor to the top right (Log out button) and click (because the touchpad has click on drag thing). Suggestion is to add a confirmation when clicking Log out. Anpang  Talk   Stuff  06:27, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It would be a good suggestion only if it was in the preferences. For example: I didn't want this, to have a confirmation. You probably wouldn't have it either if it weren't for your laptop. So this is a system business and it's hard to solve, but we'll see if some admin can handle it, and I suggest you open a ticket in phabricator YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 06:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I second that this could be a nice DIY to have in Preferences. --Raidarr (talk) 09:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, this could be helpful to implement for mobile users to have available. Turtle84375 (talk) 18:06, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You should make a task on WMF Phab. This is an amazing idea. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 18:22, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Where can I ask for wiki deletion?
I have a wiki that I would like to be deleted; it's been sitting inactive for months and I just want to be done with it, but I can't find anything that says where I should go for wiki deletion. So, where should I go to ask for the deletion of my wiki? (I am a bureaucrat and administrator on this wiki) -- Waffledogefern (talk) 01:43, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I recommend that you do it on the Stewards noticeboard, citing the reasons for the deletion in a short description. You must also quote the name of wiki YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 01:56, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Put a wiki deletion request on Stewards' Noticeboard. Maybe make it something like


 * == Wiki deletion ==


 * Can I get my wiki abcdefgwiki to be deleted? ~ Anpang   Talk   Stuff  11:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks! -- Waffledogefern (talk) 23:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Edit rights restricted
Hi, I want my open wiki to be editable for Members only. Right now I made : "Everybody" with no rights and "Confirmed users" with Edit rights. Is that the best way ? Does anybody may become a "Confirmed user" on my wiki by his own ? Thanks for your advices Webmaster1 (talk) 16:41, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi there :), you're welcome here.
 * Yes, I am sure you're on track as only confirmed users should be able to view your wiki (if it's private).
 * Plus, No, No one can grant themselves the confirmed user group, you or a sysop has to grant them.
 * Hope this helps. Ugochimobi (talk) 16:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this fast answer. But this : the site should'nt be private. Everyone reading it, only the granted one editing. Is my way ok for that ? Is there a better way ? Webmaster1 (talk) 17:40, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For only site administrators to edit it, you must enable the extension ProtectSite in ManageWiki/extensions of your wiki. This won't make your wiki private, and I recommend reading the MediaWiki page about this extension to see how to edit, among other things. Hope this helps you. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 18:02, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I don't want only site administrators to edit it, but only Confirmed users (granted by me) to edit it. Webmaster1 (talk) 18:24, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've never used this extension, so I recommend that you don't believe this answer: but I think it works like this. If you want guest users to edit, put them as admin on the site. If you only want registered users to edit on the site, this extension: "EditSubpages" should do it. But that's another thing. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 18:42, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I wasn't the one that replied with that though, but just like I said above, I thought your wiki is private, but if what you want is what you said in the second RE, then, it's simple, all you need is a public wiki then the page you don't want everybody to edit, you'd protect "Allowing on autoconfirmed user's access" by so doing, only autoconfirmed and "confirmed users" will be able to edit such pages. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @Ugochimobi: Sorry for the mistake, and thanks for the answer. Webmaster1 (talk) 19:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No problems,:P Ugochimobi (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi there! Uh, it looks like a lot of the previous solutions are pretty unnecessarily complicated. If I am correct that you want only members that you choose to edit, you can do this simply by changing which user groups have the  permission on your wiki. You can do this under Special:ManageWiki/permissions by removing the   permission from the   group (which is the same as the   group), and adding it to whichever group you desire. You may even wish to create a new group like   and give it the   permission for more control over who exactly has the ability to edit.
 * I can see that you have already figured out how to unassign the  permission from the   group, and have assigned it to the   group. If you would like to ensure that only confirmed users can edit your wiki, you will need to be sure to also remove the   permission from the   group as well (which applies to all logged in Miraheze users) at [ Special:ManageWiki/permissions/user].  dross  (t • c • g) 23:17, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Seriously? And I used to edit a lot on a wiki, and I always went through ManageWiki, but I had no idea that this was exclusively for this. That's why it's good to volunteer even if you're not a steward. I think this is good because we don't need to solve it with extensions. Because extensions one day ceases to exist and is very manual. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 00:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've been around MediaWiki installs since probably about the time of 1.25 or so. Worked on the basics of or hosted a few independent wikis myself, including Hypercane's Hypoverse when it was once an independent farm. Those kinds of projects mean making changes to the LocalSettings.php file itself and running the included scripts from time to time. For me, ManageWiki is just like an extension of everything that goes into the backend management of a MW wiki. dross  (t • c • g) 07:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * they're all similar solutions. Thanks anyway :) Ugochimobi (talk) 07:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks to all for your valuable comments. What @dross has said is important as there is something weird. Though "All Users/Everyone * " has no editing rights, yet the simple "User" group has about all rights ! Apparently every group should be carefully checked... Webmaster1 (talk) 14:51, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Another strange detail : I created a group 'Member' with edit rights, but this goup does'nt appear in the '[mywiki/]Spécial:ManageWiki/permissions' list. Quid ? This let me think there should be somewhere a clear definition of the Groups. For instance "Robot" and "Bureaucrates" : of Mywiki ? or of Miraheze ? Webmaster1 (talk) 15:01, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Did you get it figured out? Everything looks good to me in Special:ManageWiki/permissions/member and on Special:ListGroupRights. dross  (t • c • g) 19:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes I did get it figured out, and as I am learning I admire... Thanks for the Special:ListGroupRights address. Webmaster1 (talk) 21:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, I have this problem : though I belong to the Administrator group of my Wiki, I have no permission to create the Discussion page of any page I created ! So I figure I have missed something and nead your help. -- Webmaster1 (talk) 09:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hey! No problem! It looks like none of your user groups have the  permission, which I do believe is necessary to create any pages in addition to editing existing ones. There is also a   permission for discussion pages which you may want to assign to a user group. Hope this helps!  dross  (t • c • g) 09:59, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Just on the principle, I should say something important about MediaWiki permissions - nothing is assumed, and by default everything is inherited. If a user was able to do something, an admin probably doesn't have it because they inherited from the user. So if you remove something from one group that was inherited from, you must make sure to add it to groups you want able to use it. --Raidarr (talk) 10:14, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I got the  and   permissions checked. -- Webmaster1 (talk) 10:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

2021 Tech Excellence
Hello,

Before the end of year festivities start and the exams, Here's a quick post to celebrate the achievements we've made this year.

First, A massive thank you to Redmin (53 closed tasks / 40 commits) & Doug (50 closed tasks / 33 commits) for being our top non-sysadmin contributors.

Between 1 December 2020 00:00:01 and 23:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC) we had:
 * 2001 modified tasks
 * 67 users closed a task modified this year.
 * 49 users currently own a task
 * 629 users created a task modified this year
 * 293 tasks have no assignee.
 * 1247 tasks were closed as resolved.
 * 57 tasks were closed as duplicate.
 * 329 tasks were closed as invalid.
 * 306 tasks were closed as declined.
 * 62 tasks survived this period.

Thanks to all 78 users (2 users were excluded for being disabled) to have closed or are assigned to a closed task in the last 12 months.

RhinosF1 (Miraheze) (talk) 23:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Reception123 ( 717 task(s) )
 * 2) Universal_Omega ( 629 task(s) )
 * 3) John ( 226 task(s) )
 * 4) RhinosF1 ( 158 task(s) )
 * 5) Paladox ( 110 task(s) )
 * 6) Redmin ( 53 task(s) )
 * 7) Dmehus ( 50 task(s) )
 * 8) Void ( 41 task(s) )
 * 9) Southparkfan ( 28 task(s) )
 * 10) Agent_Isai ( 18 task(s) )
 * 11) Zppix ( 17 task(s) )
 * 12) Bukkit ( 16 task(s) )
 * 13) Ugochimobi ( 10 task(s) )
 * 14) Hispano76 ( 7 task(s) )
 * 15) PiscesKazeMGR ( 6 task(s) )
 * 16) Joritochip ( 4 task(s) )
 * 17) MarioMario456 ( 4 task(s) )
 * 18) Cocopuff2018 ( 4 task(s) )
 * 19) Lakelimbo ( 3 task(s) )
 * 20) Rob_Kam ( 3 task(s) )
 * 21) Owen ( 3 task(s) )
 * 22) WikiJS ( 3 task(s) )
 * 23) Videojeux4 ( 3 task(s) )
 * 24) Beninantidota ( 2 task(s) )
 * 25) Majavah ( 2 task(s) )
 * 26) Altter ( 2 task(s) )
 * 27) GabbiNova ( 2 task(s) )
 * 28) GustavioBitenkas ( 2 task(s) )
 * 29) J-Josyu ( 2 task(s) )
 * 30) Pfyh ( 2 task(s) )
 * 31) Anton ( 2 task(s) )
 * 32) Turtle84375 ( 2 task(s) )
 * 33) labster ( 2 task(s) )
 * 34) Sunilbutolia ( 2 task(s) )
 * 35) AmandaCath ( 2 task(s) )
 * 36) MacFan4000 ( 2 task(s) )
 * 37) Timboliu999 ( 2 task(s) )
 * 38) Shili ( 2 task(s) )
 * 39) HopelessNightOwl ( 2 task(s) )
 * 40) DonaldoCRG ( 1 task(s) )
 * 41) Darkrai18 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 42) Emojiwiki ( 1 task(s) )
 * 43) K599 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 44) CnoTe ( 1 task(s) )
 * 45) Xymachos ( 1 task(s) )
 * 46) MFSFreak ( 1 task(s) )
 * 47) Blackwolfe ( 1 task(s) )
 * 48) MrJaroslavik ( 1 task(s) )
 * 49) LukeTheNuke ( 1 task(s) )
 * 50) Iploystaffingph ( 1 task(s) )
 * 51) SoyokoAnis ( 1 task(s) )
 * 52) AnuWicky ( 1 task(s) )
 * 53) Verne ( 1 task(s) )
 * 54) github-migration ( 1 task(s) )
 * 55) Sario528 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 56) SamanthaNguyen ( 1 task(s) )
 * 57) Manuela ( 1 task(s) )
 * 58) Kees_Langeveld ( 1 task(s) )
 * 59) Scott_Williams ( 1 task(s) )
 * 60) AquaSZS ( 1 task(s) )
 * 61) DarkMatterMan4500 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 62) metalmax2000 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 63) Peggyfresh2012 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 64) DidierThunus ( 1 task(s) )
 * 65) Arcane21 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 66) Helper ( 1 task(s) )
 * 67) Dadoctorwhofan ( 1 task(s) )
 * 68) Clb123 ( 1 task(s) )
 * 69) The.Prettiest.Prettyboy ( 1 task(s) )
 * 70) Harryburr ( 1 task(s) )
 * 71) Ertosi ( 1 task(s) )
 * 72) Winn ( 1 task(s) )
 * 73) MusikAnimal ( 1 task(s) )
 * 74) TeNoR ( 1 task(s) )
 * 75) ChipWolf ( 1 task(s) )
 * 76) Callipedia ( 1 task(s) )
 * 77) Revival ( 1 task(s) )
 * 78) ImBoPhil ( 1 task(s) )


 * Hey, I see someone in the task list that looks familiar... 🤔 -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 00:26, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * What does this list really mean? Are they requests in Phabricator? My name is not on the list, which means it's not just requests. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 00:29, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * As said above the list, it is a list of people who "have closed or [have been] assigned to a closed task in the last 12 months." Agent Isai  Talk to me! 00:30, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Central notice changes
This is for the sake of having an open discussion on the changes proposed in this RfC, though I won't really touch much on the last proposal that was added by another person (of course, you're welcome to talk about that as well nonetheless). Hopefully this comment will at least make it clear what the proposals I brought up are intended to mean. Also, please ask nicely if you would like clarity on anything at all.

The first one to discuss is the following:

Central notices with the purpose of soliciting participation from wiki communities for an event or a discussion should last while that event or discussion is open for people to participate. As in, the central notice would only be removed after the event or discussion has closed.

Let's start by saying that this is not changing what a central notice is made for. It's not saying that every discussion gets a central notice, what it's saying applies in the instance when the people who make central notices decide that a discussion will get a central notice, which is still at their judgement. This talk page comment might show some insight on what such judgement it is, which again they would still retain. What changes is specifically the duration of such particular central notices, in that it would be in relation to the discussion that it would be notifying of.

The discussions being referred to can be gleaned from Special:CentralNotice (click "Show archived campaigns" to see the older ones). It is what is meant to gather people to provide their input and feedback, and this description fits, for example, Requests for Comment or Requests for Stewardship. And if they have yet to be closed by the closer, then the closer presumably decided that it needs more time to gather more comments before a conclusion can be drawn. If so, the methods used to notify of the discussion's existence should get continued use to gather more discussion from people.

Another proposal to discuss is the following:

A campaign type can be set for central notice campaigns, allowing users to opt out of specific campaign types in their preferences, specifically in the "Banners" section. Here is a proposal for what campaign types Miraheze should use:
 * Fundraising
 * Surveys
 * Maintenance
 * Requests for Comment
 * Requests for Stewardship
 * Requests for Community Director

To make it clear how to use preferences to opt-out of campaign types, some text instructing people how to do so should be added to central notices.

In technical terms, campaign types are configured with $wgCentralNoticeCampaignTypes in LocalSettings.php.

This can presumably work with ManageWiki to apply for a whole wiki. To sysadmins, this would presumably be done by using a custom variable to set $wgDefaultUserOptions['centralnotice-display-campaign-type-whatever'] = 0.

Now, in regards to how to decide on the campaign types to be used, I'd say that having the communities' consensus is still relevant, in the case of disputes over what should be grouped together or partitioned. And the RfC does show a dispute over whether Requests for Global Sysop should be included, excluded, or grouped with another type. So it would at least be useful to have some sort of discussion with wiki communities to figure out what's best.

In response to other comments in the RfC: Including Requests for Global Sysop in the list of campaign types does not mean that every single one of that request gets a central notice, it is meant to mean that a RfGS would be allowed to get a central notice, which would still have the judgement of the people who make central notices to actually get one. And people should be able to decide for themselves if they want to opt out of seeing certain central notices, and I figure that if someone desires a tool to stop seeing a certain kind of notification, they likely aren't interested in what's being notified about in the first place. Finally, it was concluded in this RfC that there is consensus for community-oriented posts to be posted on Miraheze's social media accounts, therefore a community-elected role would be appropriate.

Feel free to say your thoughts on any of these topics. K599 (talk) 15:29, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * And will there be a way to disable CNotice for some, and leave only fundraising? <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 15:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @YellowFrogger As said in the explanation of how campaign types work, people should be able to go into their preferences and opt-out of the types that they don't want to see. K599 (talk) 16:27, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * But there has to be an option to hide it across the whole wiki (not just in preferences), but yes, all visitors to a particular wiki would be better. Nobody is obligated to see CNotice either, so it had to have that. Showing only CNotice for fundraising, which is important for Miraheze to maintain the wikis maintenance, the others don't matter (or only matter in Meta). <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 19:59, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @YellowFrogger I mentioned above that there's presumably a way to make campaign types work with ManageWiki, though I suppose a sysadmin should comment on the method I talked about. K599 (talk) 20:19, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.37
Can you please upgrade all farm wikis on this farm to MediaWiki 1.37? Thanks. TylerMagee (talk) 18:26, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The version is still coming, maybe in a few days! Miraheze systems work and that's why Miraheze always gets a new version in a short time. Remembering that Wikipedia already uses version 1.38 <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 19:47, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Based from my inquiry on Discord to SRE, the idea is to roll out in the next few weeks; however, there are snags with extensions that need to be worked out. Until that happens, a full update will be delayed. SRE is actively working on the matter. --Raidarr (talk) 20:32, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Upgrades aren't something you have to request, they are something we do automatically. One of our commitments to our users is to always provide the latest version of MediaWiki. Currently, we're testing all 300+ extensions on our farm to make sure they work well with MediaWiki 1.37 with only about 20 extensions left to test. We anticipate to probably upgrade to MediaWiki 1.37 in the next few week if possible. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 20:42, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Accidentally removed self from bureaucrat role
Hi there. I am completely new to this and was poking around roles and removed myself from the bureaucrat role (i am the sole member currently) thinking administrator role would still allow me to access to editing the wiki settings. I'm now stuck, what should I do? Hamishpo (talk) 08:57, 2 December 2021 (UTC)


 * You can request a steward in this to re-add you to the bureaucrat role in your wiki. Anpang   Talk   Stuff  09:03, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thankyou so much! Hamishpo (talk) 10:18, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Problem with infoboxes
Hello, I'm new to setting up wikis of my own here, had The Pantheon Verse Wiki started earlier today, and I'm struggling with the infoboxes. I've imported a number of templates and modules from Wikipedia to get them working, but every time I try to create one, this text appears next to it in the preview: " <templatestyles src="Module:Infobox/styles.css"> "

I have no idea where I went wrong, can anyone help me? - 59Efra (talk) 17:42, 2 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Please enable TemplateStyles at Special:ManageWiki/extensions -> Parser hooks to get rid of that. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 17:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Did that, now I'm getting this other message instead: "Page Module:Infobox/styles.css must have content model "Sanitized CSS" for TemplateStyles (current model is "plain text")." How do I solve this? - 59Efra (talk) 17:56, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've fixed that for you. For the record, I changes the content model of the page using Special:ChangeContentModel from text to Sanitized CSS. Ugochimobi (talk) 18:11, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! - 59Efra (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi there, to be honest with you, importing templates and modules from ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA is where you started making the whole mistake, as infoboxes from there always has one or two issue here, why? they're complex that you need enough Lua programming knowledge to fix them to your taste.
 * Per Agent above, Head to this page in your wiki and scroll down to find the mw:Extension:TemplateStyles and turn it on. Enabling that should fix your current issue. Ugochimobi (talk) 17:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

DynamicPageList not displaying for most users
Hello. Recently an editor at SideM Wiki brought up that DynamicPageList wasn't working (we use them on pages such as this). I checked the extensions for the wiki, saw that DPL was disabled, and then reenabled it. It works for my account (admin) but not for the other editor (regular user). I also tried logging out and DPL no longer worked. What could be the cause of this? Thanks for any help. Clay (talk) 00:34, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Removal of the Liberty skin
Hello,

SRE wishes to inform the community that the Liberty skin will be removed in preparation for Miraheze's upgrade to MediaWiki 1.37 on 5 December, 2021, due to lack of compatibility with MediaWiki 1.37. While testing the skin on MediaWiki 1.37, page contents loaded incorrectly and unstyled due to resources not loading. As this skin is not compatible with the latest release of MediaWiki, we will have to remove it before upgrading.

Miraheze offers many skins to choose from. Affected wikis who have the Liberty skin enabled as the default are encouraged to move from the Liberty skin to one of Miraheze's other skin offerings. You can enable new skins at Special:ManageWiki/extensions -> Skins on your wiki and set it as the default at Special:ManageWiki/settings -> Styling. Note that once the skin is removed and if it is your default skin, you'll be moved to the Vector skin automatically. If you don't have the skin enabled as the default, no further action is required.

Thank you for your understanding, Agent Isai  Talk to me! 12:00, 3 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for telling us. SoyokoAnis  12:14, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Is there a method to identify and contact default users of Liberty directly? I can't imagine that on its own, this message will effectively reach the management of each affected wiki. --Raidarr (talk) 13:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * All affected wikis have been notified via a sitenotice like the one that appears here on Meta. Per our statistics however, it seems only 8 wikis have it set as the default. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 13:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Great, that makes us safe, as long as the wikis/users in question have been notified. Ugochimobi (talk) 13:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't use the skin, but giving something like this 2 days notice is not cool and is something right out of the Fandom book. Especially when 1.36 is not reaching its EOL until May 2022 and there is certainly no rush to update. Naleksuh (talk) 19:36, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Timely updating is part of the Miraheze base pitch, but more advance notice would be good to consider going forward. --Raidarr (talk) 20:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It's going to be a not-so-great change for those who wear the skin. I don't use it and I won't be sorry. But one must understand who is for good. so its good, even if it sejas one less skin. Let this new version come. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 21:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that you feel like two days notice is not enough, we will keep your comments in mind and seek to provide notice earlier next time when possible. As for the no rush to upgrade argument, one of Miraheze's main commitments is to upgrade to the next version of MediaWiki in a timely manner, as Raidarr points out above. We don't think it would be fair to hold up an entire upgrade for all users simply because of one skin that isn't compatible and for which we have no reason to believe there will be a fix in the near future (based on the current activity of the developers). Maybe there is a reason that I'm missing but I personally don't see what would be different if the notice had been there five days instead of two for example, but as I say, a longer period of time is something we will consider in the future for such changes if that is what the community wishes. We are sorry that we have to remove Liberty but it is up to the developers to keep their extensions up to date and compatible with the latest versions of MediaWiki. Universal Omega does regularly help developers and fix bugs, but unfortunately the developers for Liberty don't seem to be interested in keeping it up to date with the latest stable version of MediaWiki. If wants to add something he should feel free. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 11:15, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.37 upgrade
In keeping up with our commitment to always provide the newest version of MediaWiki to our users, Miraheze is happy to announce that we'll soon be upgrading our MediaWiki version from 1.36 to 1.37 on 7 December, 2021. The upgrade will take place from 17:00 (UTC) to 20:00 (UTC). During this time, all wikis will be set to read-only meaning that wikis will be uneditable during that period of time.

This MediaWiki upgrade brings little new features that may interest users apart from (perhaps) support for JPEG2000 images. As for technical changes, this MediaWiki upgrade brings plenty of change, consult the release notes for MediaWiki 1.37 for more information. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, thank you! Agent Isai Talk to me! 21:05, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Good <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 21:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I arrived at Miraheze in version 1.34 and we are already going to version 1.37. We are old. But this new version (as you said), it's not going to be a big deal (and the next one (1.38 that Wikipedia)) has ridiculous changes in the sidebar on Mobile MinervaNeue, the one that you press and open settings, login, etc. The letters just got smaller. Version 1.38 was released quickly after 1.37, which raises doubts. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 21:12, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 1.38 isn't released yet. Wikimedia projects run an alpha version. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  21:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Problem with /styles.css module
Hi

I'm working with templates and modules on one new wiki (using code from Template Wiki). So I want to create Module:Documentation/styles.css for Template:Doc. But every time the system shows an error. So I need for help. --Tigran07 (talk) 06:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC) Tigran07 (talk) 06:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


 * What's the error? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 06:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * "unexpected symbol near '/'." -Tigran07 (talk) 06:45, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * And every time I change the code, the error still remains. -Tigran07 (talk) 07:05, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Also something is going wrong with Module:WikidataIB. Wiki show it like a usual page --Tigran07 (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Is it supposed to be Template:Documentation/styles.css? Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:37, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This module supposed to be Template:Documentation Tigran07 (talk) 12:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * What? Well I'm just telling Module: pages don't have subpages so it's probably Template:Documentation/styles.css Anpang   Talk   Stuff  03:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

I'd like to apply for Interwiki administration on my site
...now that enough time and edits have passed. (Only doing so because I'd like to get in my next two IW IDs any hour from now--and at the suggestion of and  from back in July.) This comes as I'm taking a break from conlang-dictionary entry-import duties; keep in mind I'm rescuing them from a now slower-than-laboratory-pitch Referata, a.k.a. what used to be the Semantic MediaWiki hotspot. (Long story...)


 * Wiki ID: constantnoble
 * Requested IWs:
 * mwe (mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:$1 / MediaWiki extension details)
 * mwm (mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 / MediaWiki manual pages)


 * Active/Registered users: 1 (this founding contributor) / 25 (through Miraheze login)
 * Contributions by this applicant: Almost 9,000 (and please, no Dragon Ball jokes)

Over at Phabricator, I'm gearing up for my next filing--concerning a few issues I'm having with PageForms lately--and to I am awaiting a much-needed adjustment to my DPL3 install (whereby count in "ParametersData.php" must be raised from the default 500 [locally or otherwise] to get the correct result[s] for various page tallies in the resultsheader).

All this, as the 1.37 era is gradually approaching on here...

All right, / Have at it.

Once again, many thanks!

Routhwick (talk) 09:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Routhwick, ✅ (#1 and #2) per your request. Agent Isai or Universal Omega can speak to the Phabricator tickets. Dmehus (talk) 09:48, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Nintendo Miraheze
Do you think Nintendo Miraheze is interesting? Iron Sword 23 (talk) 18:03, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Per my comment on Discord, I think this has a lot to do with the interest of Nintendo in the first place. The problem is that wikis can exist for anything, and people are interested in only so many things. That said, it's a fairly clean use of the Monobook skin. I can't say it's too fancy, but it's charming in its own way for that. Structurally it has effort, but naturally the content is not release ready by far. If you can ask this of dedicated fans and particular wiki editors to help in construction, I think it has a viable future. --Raidarr (talk) 12:31, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

How do I use multiple "for template" calls in a form?
Hello!

The Free Software Directory uses multiple "for template" calls in their form called "Entry" (https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Form:Entry). But when you look at a page (such as Blender: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Blender) the layout of the page does not match any of the templates called within the "Entry" form.

I did some digging, and each page of the wiki seems to follow a different template called "Print_Entry"(https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Template:Print_entry). But Template:Print_Entry is not called on Form:Entry at all.

How is each page within Free Software Directory following the layout of Template:Print_Entry when it is not connected at all to Form:Entry? How can I do something similar by having multiple template calls in my own form, but have the page created by the form follow a "layout template" like Template:Print_Entry?

Thanks for your help! ParentRatings (talk) 06:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I recommend that you enable the "Loop" extension in ManageWiki to do this. For loops are like regular loops. TylerMagee (talk) 08:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Community Discussion: Wiki creators and creating wikis for themselves
Since an RfC would be too much for just one addition to the Wiki creator policy I am opening a Community Discussion here. As you all know, wiki creators are elected to serve the community and approve/decline wikis that are requested. They can in theory of course also approve their own wikis, but in my view for purposes of objectivity it would be preferred that they had another wiki creator do that.

However, what I'm proposing here isn't a complete ban on wiki creators creating their own wikis, it's simply the possibility for a Steward to remove a wiki creator if they are excessively create wikis for themselves and tend to not be creating wikis for other users.

The following would be added to "Revocation": A wiki creator's rights may also be removed by a Steward if they are mainly creating wikis for their own use and not focusing on their role of creating wikis for other users. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:21, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  as proposer. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:23, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Wiki creators should serve the community, not themselves. It wouldn't make sense if a wiki creator misused their privileges to create an excessive amount of wikis for themselves without any consequences.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:23, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  The proposal pretty much covered it.  08:25, 7 December 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 4)  Why not?  Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:27, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) . This should stop wiki creator spam. TylerMagee (talk) 08:38, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  --Magogre (talk)  09:04, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  I don't really have to much to add, the post covered basically what I wanted to say on this issue. TigerBlazer (talk) 11:15, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  Ugochimobi (talk) 11:25, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with wiki creators requesting wikis for themselves and self-approving it, but if it becomes excessive to the point of flooding the farmer log, then it does come off as either disruptive or somewhere between messy and cloggy like a clogged toilet. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 11:56, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point too, though I was more concerned with objectivity and creating more wikis for yourself rather than for other users. Since it's no secret what actions started this Community Discussion, I would point out that many requests that were made and 'self-approved' would have likely not been approved by another wiki creator, at least not by myself. Wiki creators also decline wiki requests if someone is requesting too many wikis, so it's definitely unfair that a wiki creator can create many wikis for themselves while regular users are told not to create an excessive amount. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 12:07, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's very true. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 13:50, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) All users must respect the content policy and wiki creator is no exception <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ UnEdits </b>) <b style="font-size:9px; color: #000;>(Bring back patrolled)</b></b> 14:29, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Well the Content Policy as such doesn't mention wiki creators creating an excessive amount of wikis for themselves at all, which is why I opened this Community Discussion, as there needs to be a separate ground beyond the CP removal ground. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Absolutely. I actually think it would be a good convention for a wiki creator to request a wiki and let another wiki creator approve it in the name of transparency, but I won't push for that here. --Raidarr (talk) 14:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting point yeah, I'm kind of undecided on that but related to what I say below I feel like if a wiki creator wants to create a wiki that they could see be declined by someone else they should wait for someone else to approve, but that's not really a clear question. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  A wiki creator is someone who has the experience and trust to create wikis that can follow Miraheze policy, which you arguably can do best if you yourself are managing it. Whether or not people should be creating their own wikis is a seperate issue, but I don't think there is a distinguishment between doing so "mainly" and not. There is no obligation or commitment as a wiki creator, it is a volunteer position, and I do not support requiring people to "balance" with other wikis. Also, the proposed change is that any Steward can just take the permissions away unilaterally which is definitely a no-go. Changes like that should require consensus. Naleksuh (talk) 21:08, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Comments

 * While I don't see the problem with self-approving wiki requests that other wiki creators have self-requested, it becomes a distraction to all others who would want to review the wiki request if it becomes excessive. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 12:07, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's worth mentioning that the case which lead to this conversation is a holdout of a time when WCs were appointed with little in the way of community input, and it was done two days before the process changed. Just an observation, not to fault the Steward at the time who made the call. --Raidarr (talk) 14:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the proposal may serve a limited purpose (for a single user) but I think either way it would make clear to any future wiki creators that when creating wikis for themselves if they choose to do so they should take the chance to think: would another wiki creator really have approved this if I was a regular user? Though of course its main point is limiting excessive wiki creations for ones-self which would not otherwise be approved of by any creator Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:42, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * By all means, this is very reasonable to do regardless of the 'catalyst' to propose. Plus it solidifies the precedent for new requests in the future. --Raidarr (talk) 15:55, 7 December 2021 (UTC)