Requests for Comment/Endorsing TestWiki as an official project


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * I have reviewed this RfC and close it in the following way:
 * Having reviewed the definition of "officially endorsed Miraheze project" and reviewing documentation available on Meta - there seems to be no process to officially recognise a project, or even the idea of an "official project". Miraheze does not have "official" projects that I can find on Meta, much rather it has the concept of "Technically Required Wikis" such as Meta-Wiki, Login and Commons Wiki and "Official Internal Collaboration Wikis" such as CVT Wiki, Stewards Wiki and Staff Wiki. These wikis have a exception to the dormancy policy as the application of policy to these wikis would cause significant harm to the operation of Miraheze if they were either deleted or eligible for closure and abandonment. Therefore, this proposal fails on the basis that no "officially endorsed Miraheze project[s]" exist and there is no definition for what types of wikis fall under this definition or what having such status would bring to a community.
 * The Main Page should be a source of information for projects and new comers to Miraheze - I can not see any reason why a test wiki or any other wikis on Miraheze could not be added to the Main Page with the support of the community. There seems to be a backing below that this could be wanted and any administrator should feel empowered to do so if this is the wish of the community for the Main Page.
 * Test Wiki would not be eligible for an exception to the Dormancy Policy as there does not seem to exist any basis for which the community could choose to except a wiki from the policy. Exceptions were implemented to policy by SRE originally to protect from accidental harm or damage to the wider farm from mistaken deletion or closure of wikis. All wikis currently covered under an exception meet this criteria and "Developers Wiki" should be noted to have an exemption not an exception.
 * John (talk) 20:43, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Unlike projects like Miraheze Commons or Miraheze Developers Wiki, TestWiki is not an officially endorsed Miraheze project. I was quite surprised when I found out that TestWiki isn't an official project despite how often we direct people to it. As it is not an official, community-endorsed project, we don't publicly advertise it on the main page nor on the Help center as we do Commons and DevWiki, even though it is very commonly used and many Meta users/global rights holders also have a presence there. By endorsing TestWiki as an official project, not much would change apart from the community officially endorsing the wiki as an official project, as the community has in the past with Commons and DevWiki. It would also benefit from having a Dormancy Policy exception as an official, community endorsed project along with more advertising on Meta as our official test wiki. A vote on TestWiki about this topic was also opened which prompted this counterpart RfC. Agent Isai Talk to me! 17:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 1 (Endorsing TestWiki as an official Miraheze project)
TestWiki is endorsed as an official Miraheze project. Agent Isai Talk to me! 17:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * , as proposer. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 17:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  With how often users are pointed to Public Test Wiki, I'm surprised it's not officially endorsed already. Giving it free advertising and endorsement may also help reduce the amount of wiki requests for test wikis. Tali64³ (talk) 22:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  Being here since the start of Miraheze and one of the co-founders of TestWiki, I too can say that I'm surprised that it apparently isn't an "official project". I think the fact that no one seems to believe it's not makes it clear that it should be. Arguably, this wouldn't even have needed an RfC. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This change also coincides with removal of the custom domain (see RFC on test wiki for that). Naleksuh (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  I had meant to respond to this earlier, as I was part of the original conversation on Discord that led to this RfC with, but I got held up and am addressing this now. Full support, I'm confused as to why this was never recognized as an official project of Miraheze before, given that the Consuls on it are system administrators and stewards (mainly). There is also an RfC (that can be found here) that is relating to a changing of the domain name and logo for TestWiki. Thanks - BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 18:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per above. AlPaD (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  We're including it in our templated responses to wiki requests, we should either officially add it to canon or remove it from those messages, and I don't see any reason to remove it from our responses. :) --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 04:01, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 4)  and remove the custom domain, same reasons as others. Collei (talk) 03:40, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 5)  as it's already a de-facto or pseudo-official Miraheze community project wiki. That being said, I do disagree with part of Agent Isai's rationale, that official project wiki status was needed for an exemption (or exception) to Dormancy Policy. In fact, Dormancy Policy exemptions can be granted for many reasons. Usually that need stems from a relatively few number of editors editing a wiki infrequently, but there are other valid reasons as well. I would also note that of the other excepted wikis mentioned, only Miraheze Commons and Meta wikis are excepted. Miraheze Template Wiki, which was merged into Miraheze Developers Wiki, was always an exempted wiki. That being said, I don't see any reason to oppose this request based on the proposal. Dmehus (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 6)  I was of the opinion that this was already the case. I do not fully understand the relevance and implications of a project being official or not but this approach makes sense in my view. --DeeM28 (talk) 09:07, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 7)  By agreeing with the above and supporting the officialization of Wikipedia based on an official testwiki project. Best regards,  Hey Türkiye  Message? 11:46, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 8)  --Átkýv L. (talk) 20:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 9)  Pppery (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 10)  --Imamy (talk) 03:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 11)  You can do an exception to the Dormancy Policy for TestWiki and make it an official TestWiki. Am0ngU$ (talk)

Oppose

 * 1)  so long as this uses a custom domain I can not support this. If the custom domain were to be removed then yes, I could support this. Universal Omega (talk) 02:44, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Universal Omega I agree with this, but I think most supports were done with the idea that the custom domain would be removed. There's currently two proposals on Test wiki both to make it official and to remove the custom domain, both with support. Let's assume that it will be made official and the custom domain removed. The only person who has explicitly said they believe the project can be official with the custom domain is Reception123, and they are outvoted by everyone else. Naleksuh (talk) 03:23, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I will then be able to support if and when that goes into affect not before. It has to be in affect before I'm able to support this. Universal Omega (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, all proposals will be closed at the same time. If anything that might be last since it's the only one without unanimous support. But, I will ask to see if anyone can close it now. Naleksuh (talk) 03:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  per above
 * 2) Many supports, including mine, were made on the condition of the custom domain being removed, but unfortunately it looks like that proposal is going to fail. Therefore, making the project official may be considered unsuccessful. I cannot picture how an official Miraheze project not only would not be hosted on the .miraheze.org domain, but a domain not even controlled by Miraheze. Naleksuh (talk) 05:12, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  per Universal Omega CabraComunista (talk) 20:45, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1)  Would it be feasible here to bring the domain publicly back under test.miraheze.org, or place publictestwiki.com under verified Miraheze Limited control to address that concern? Conceptually it is already official and used as such (ie in processing wiki requests), it seems this is only a formality and this is the only concern that would be a snag. I would rather see an official project fully operated as such - loose domains under unofficial functionaries, even if they're held by trusted individuals, are loose ends we don't need to have. That said I don't know exactly what the domain situation is. Perhaps this can enlighten. --Raidarr (talk) 14:20, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a separate proposal over at TestWiki to see whether the custom domain can be removed. It's not looking as if the proposal will pass right now. Thanks - BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 14:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * What do you mean it's not looking like it will pass? Apart from polling not being a substitute for discussion, and no-one in opposition having anything meaningful to say, the key importance is that many of the supports were placed under the expectation of the custom domain being removed, so if that proposal didn't pass then the other one would need to be rolled back. So far, only Reception123 seems to think that there should be an "official project" on a non-Miraheze domain controlled not by Miraheze. Naleksuh (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.