Community noticeboard/Archive 38

__NOINDEX__

MacFan4000's request for IRC Group Contact
Basically for the same reasons as in the above to requests. At least 2 or 3 new GCs would be a good idea so that we have active and available people who can deal with GC related requests. I am currently a GC for a different project, thus I am familiar with the policies and procedures, and am also already in the private GC IRC channel (run by Libera staff). I am reasonably active on IRC and can often be reached with a ping. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 13:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Additional comments given by user (if any)

 * 1) Courtesy comment to keep thread from being archived. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 02:25, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Questions for candidate

 * 1) Below in the oppose section you said, "A private discussion between Miraheze staff members", do you feel private discussions should be a preliminary aspect of starting community discussions like this? It's interesting that 3 requests have come at once following a discussion that is not public and involving 2 groups you're labelling as staff when neither are Board appointed? Miraheze has had a long history of having a closed 'old boys' style club where decisions were made in private involving groups that either a) shouldn't be discussing community affecting things privately (stewards) or b) shouldn't be having a major influence on community aspects by definition (SRE). I find it slightly concerning that this line of proposals is coming out of re-igniting such a private and exclusive club. John (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We simply were talking about and agreeing on the fact that we really need to have another GC that has more availability. I want to make it clear that I did not start the conversation, though I did participate in it. Certainly it may have been a good idea for the discussion to have been held publicly.
 * So my point is more around why does such a channel where a community role and non community role co-exist that is utilised seemingly in such a way that public discussions can be usurped into a private environment to exclude the community from engaging in discussions/decisions initially that revolve around them? John (talk) 22:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly, one could argue that these requests would serve as a public discussion, and if people agree with the issue they can support the request and if they don't they can oppose it. The private discussion ultimately lead to public discussion through these posts. I see no reason that such a private channel could stay in existence so long as more of these discussions are held publicly and no final decision is reached in the private channel. In this case the only "decisions" that took place were me and UO individually deciding to post these requests. I will also mention that I wasn't even part of this channel until yesterday. Also re: your statement about the use of the word staff, I wasn't aware that there was any official definition? I used the term loosely. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:24, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So you see no reason a private channel can't exist to have discussions that should be public but aren't because people who are 'lucky' to be in the channel choose to have such discussions? John (talk) 22:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I never said that. This was more to get support from other people before starting a public discussion. If nobody had agreed that the issue was valid i would not have been pursued any further. For community matter I would always ultimately want public input on the matter, and we are getting it through these requests. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You say that's not the case, but then immediately go to say if this 'private channel' had not agreed it was a problem, you wouldn't have consulted the community - who are the ones who should decide if there is a problem in the first place. Or would you then gone into a public channel to start a discussion over what you had discussed in the private channel that no one agreed with you on? John (talk) 22:48, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Had I been the one starting the conversation, I would have done so publicly. Ether way I probably would have eventually some day posted this request. I had been thinking about it from time to time, but I don't often start discussions, nor do I very often participate in them. I also have no knowledge of any of the previous ones that took place in this channel. In this case requesting a role is a personal decision, and it was helpful to hear opinions before deciding to request the position. If I had decided I wanted even more opinions, I would have talked to more people. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 23:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) What steps would you take to ensure the community remains uninfluenced by such private and closed venues where the community can not suitably or appropriately assess need, necessity or content of such non-sensitive discussions? John (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, I did not start the conservation. I think this would be a better question for to answer. Maybe in the future we hold discussions like this publicly. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I asked explicitly what you would do. John (talk) 22:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I would make sure that if I start a discussion like this I do it publicly unless there is some reason it absolutely has to be private. This one probably could have been public. If somebody does start one of these discussions in private we can make sure not to come to a final decision until public discussion has taken place.

Support

 * 1)  Has both a good reason to request this right and it's already an IRC regular. OrangeStar (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  Diversification with trusted users that are also IRC regulars is wise.  MacFan4000 has proven to be both. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 16:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  Why does everyone want this right all of sudden? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 10:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just 3 people have requested this. I guess originally it was because there was only one group contact, now it's because there are no group contacts. OrangeStar (talk) 15:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The original reason was because as of late, the only GC, John has not been on IRC much as of late, and thus it would be good to have somebody who is active and available. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 19:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  I'm not familiar enough with MacFan4000 to vote on this one, so abstain. |  -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Apart from being rather inactive on IRC compared to CosmicAlpha and Reception123, I also find them to be much more problematic both with being more personal and ruder. Also this person used op permissions for personal issues once (disclaimer: I was the target; but it was still a personal issue). Plus, if CosmicAlpha and Reception123's requests pass, there will be no need for FOUR group contacts on such a small project. Please stop this "trend". Naleksuh (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not at all inactive. I am usually available if you ping me. It is frankly disappointing that we are unable to move past previous mistakes which can be learned from. I will note that I made this request following an internal discussion. I will also clarify for other voters that I did not misuse permissions. I was a channel moderator at the time, (and still am). I decided that because of what was happening, a ban was needed. Later another moderator disagreed with the ban and removed. Another moderator had told me at the time of the ban, that they were fully ok with it. It also was not at all for personal reasons. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Internal to what? There's currently only one group contact. Naleksuh (talk) 17:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * A private discussion between Miraheze staff members (SRE, stewards etc). MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's another reason then. I would like to keep groups seperate and have them simply do what they are meant for; not draw some sort of "line" or have a private club. This is actually one of the reasons why SRE are no longer called sysadmins and a lot of their responsibilities were broken up into elsewhere. If you consider these past actions mistakes that you have learned from, I guess that's better than nothing, but there is certainly not a need for four group contacts, especially picked from people who already do far too many other things Naleksuh (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  Similar lines above, permissions have previously been used to be push a personal opinion/side of an argument rather than acting in a neutral capacity. Response to the question I posted as well does not provide me much confidence that they'll act in the community interest as they accepted a private channel to exclude the community from initial discussions is okay where the membership of the channel is decided by those not appointed to manage such a channel bit rather by virtue of their roles in either community or non community environments. John (talk) 22:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That was a single incident. I have learned from that, and now would not make a such a ban without first consulting other moderators unless nobody else was around and it was extremely obvious that a ban was needed. I will restate though that it was not at all for personal reasons, from what I can recall, conduct was getting out of hand and discussions not directly involving me were getting heated. Once again it was not my decision to hold this conversation privately. I would always act in community interest.
 * Respectfully, I find this to be a misread of today's situation. While I believe I understand your opposition to the existence of private channels more generally, private channels do have a role in coordinating relevant sensitive volunteer actions - the use of one such channel was critical in preventing widespread panic during the November/December outages as internal volunteer discussions about recovery were underway.
 * Such a chat taking place in general channels during the incident would have been rife with interruptions, disrupted other necessary support conversations, and been prone to misinterpretations that would have further slowed progress/damaged trust in the Miraheze platform, though admittedly communications weren't perfect in spite of that use.
 * MacFan's 'acceptance' of the channel in question was unrelated to this specific request for GC, but was instead prompted by UO rectifying a long-term disconnect in bridging similar Discord and IRC channels that serve the same legitimate coordination purposes.
 * I do agree that brief discussion about "Hey, there's a need for more GCs, let's put this to the community to decide" probably should have taken place in general instead of a private channel, but the CN was viewed as the correct public forum to broach this for public debate.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 23:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would agree with NotAracham on this front. The use of private channels are employed in some scenarios when it comes to sensitive information, as NotAracham stated with the db141 outages. While that may have not been the case here, the conversations in question that were done in private channels and served as preliminary ideas. It was not as if the solution that came out of the discussion was to appoint 3 new group contacts without community input. The decision was made to ask for community input. The public has the opportunity to voice their opinions here, now. Just because conversations about Group Contacts were made in private channels does not mean that they were bad. Plenty of conversations are had privately for varying reasons. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I respectfully would disagree that the use of such a channel during the data recovery incident was useful. In my view (and SREs and the Boards), it contributed to a fragmentation of discussion and ultimately lead to the community being poorly informed and at times - misinformed about the situation. This was picked up by SRE and it was agreed that said channel should not be used in the future for such discussions. Therefore, I would argue the justification for the channels existence is moot if that's the primary example. John (talk) 23:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you proposing to delete/archive the channel? BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not explicitly making such a proposal - I'm merely pointing out that public discussions should be public and private discussions private - to channel appears to be used in a way to hide the public discussions at times and publicise the private discussions that should be private. I imagine if we audit the channel, a lot of discussions would either be acceptable to be public or would be deemed private and as such should not be in such a 'public' channel. John (talk) 23:34, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I imagine a review of conversations can be undertaken then. I would ask though for you to reconsider your oppose of MacFan4000. Other than that mishap, they've been an exemplary member in the Miraheze community and are trusted. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Special Signature
Hello! I would like to know how to have your name and signature different. I would like my name/signature to be, but when I put it as my signature, it gives me the code, not the picture. Also, is there a way to make a picture your actual user name? Or at least have your user name in a special font? I'm thinking about renaming myself Commetian Empire, with that font/picture. Thank you! Commetiaa (talk) 23:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I strongly recommend not using a picture as your signature. Not only is there a risk of manipulation, but there is also a good likelihood that your signature will negatively impact loading times especially when you have multiple instances of your signature on the same page. Instead, as long as the font you want to use is commonly recognized by browsers (not sure how to check that at the moment), you can use some HTML formatting in your signature. Just be sure to check the box under your signature to have it treated as wikitext. For example, you could format your signature like: . Just note that not all fonts are available, and as I couldn't figure out what font your image uses, I'm not sure you'd be able to use it in your signature without getting the font imported for use in the site. --  Void  Whispers 01:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I looked where I got the signature, and the font is "Bilbo Swash Caps". I tried using your HTML, but it didn't do anything. So I'm guessing that that font isn't recognized here on Miraheze. Also, how do you (when you rename yourself) get your user name colored? I've seen it with multiple users like KumihoWolffey; but I've never found out how. Commetiaa (talk) 12:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you check the button below the signature in your user preferences? Treat signature as wikitext (without an automatic link to your user page) should do the trick --LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 21:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, sorry, missed your response. But colors are not a part of the user name. This is a part of the customizable signature, and is something you can add like: . If the name of a color isn't available, find it's hex code and use it instead, like:  . Taking a look at w:WP:Signature tutorial may provide some additional answers to formatting questions. --  Void  Whispers 01:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Why have I been blocked?
I have been blocked on several wikis where I have never made a single edit, one is in Chinese, the other in Italian, both languages I do not understand. The reason in the italian wiki is that I posted meaningless content Inserimento di contenuti privi di senso, in fact I have not made a single edit in this wiki (why would I???). Lily talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 20:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Possibly consult those wikis? Collei (talk) 20:27, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, I'll just add, if some are private wikis found using Special:WikiDiscover, (I have clicked on a few of these without realizing they were privte)... apparently once you land on one of these site's main page, it shows on their RC a new account being created. Sometimes the staff/volunteers of these wikis ban all usernames, thinking random people have access when we really don't (has happened to me on several private wikis), and just for landing on their **public** Main Page. I don't think they realize that we have access to view nothing else, and their banning is pretty much fruitless and silly, but it still happens regularly. If that's the case Lily, I wouldn't worry too much about it. For those where you've been falsely banned, I'm thinking you should be able to appeal on a user page and inform them of their mistake as Collei mentioned (depending on that wiki's settings)? | -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 20:47, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you; these are all private wikis, and they all have been closed. The bans just do not look nice im my user stats, otherwise I do not care. I think the admins do not know what they are doing, LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 20:52, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You're welcome Lily. :) I hear you, and I have thought the same of my own stats, but if anyone were to review the reasons for the blocks, they'd see we've never made edits in any of these communities. I suppose we could try to help educate these users on their meta/global user pages, though that's a lot of effort for something so silly! ;-) Cheers! | -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 21:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I realized I misread your earlier comment, the wikis are now closed, I see what you mean. In this case, I'd consider enquiring if these will stick on user stats after the wikis have gone dormant or are closed. | -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * By the time that they are actually deleted, they will no longer be in the database. Collei (talk) 01:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Transferring temporary wiki to permanent domain
How easy would it be to make my wiki with one domain now and then transfer the content to a different wiki once I gain ownership of that one? (I am currently trying to reopen and gain ownership of deepwoken.miraheze.org) Heroku (talk) 20:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Probably more trouble than needed. I've reopened the wiki so you can edit freely now. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 00:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

How do you make a page editable by only Bureaucrats?
Hello,

My home Wiki is Liberty Center Schools Wiki, where I want to make a page editable by ONLY bureaucrats. I have tried to search through the Manage Wiki page and can't find it. How do I do this? There are also some other Manage Wiki settings that I would like turned on, like the ones on TestWiki. LC Developer (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The highest level of protection in default MediaWiki is administrators only; however, you can create an abuse filter that prevents anyone without the "managewiki" right (which only bureaucrats have by default) from editing that page. Tali64³ (talk) 18:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Will do. LC Developer (talk) 18:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Tali64³: I know how to create an abuse filter, but what text do I add to it? LC Developer (talk) 18:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You can add a new level of protection to the wiki by making a few changes to the mw-config repo on GitHub, feel free to make a Phabricator task requesting this addition. -- Bukkit  [ cetacean needed ] 22:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's an example filter I made:

action == "edit"

& page_title = "[add your page's title here]"

& !contains_any(user_rights, "managewiki") Tali64³ (talk) 18:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Stopping donation messages that appear in every wiki
how to stop

THEY'RE EVEN MORE ANNOYING THAN ADS

H A M 1 (talk) 20:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I believe there is no way to get rid of them until they clear them. All they are trying to get more money since domain prices have skyrocketed recently. They also don't get paid from companies for ads, and they don't want to resort to doing that. Sorry, that's all I could do, Commetiaa (talk) 21:05, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * They're needed unless you want to see full page banner ads :)
 * Once we get enough funds to secure Miraheze for the next year, they'll stop. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:17, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think we should run them for longer. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 03:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * User talk:Agent Isai Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 02:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I donated a little bit of money, will they stop appearing for me? I wasn't particularly bothered by them, I was just wondering. Bonbonyoshi (talk) 09:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I think there are only two ways to get rid of them. One, you use the method above your comment, and use those steps; or just wait until they have enough money for the next year. Commetiaa (talk) 14:30, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * i thought that domain prices tetrationally skyrocketed in a single day (early march) H A M 1 (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

2Mb limitationof XML import
When you import XML into a wiki on Miraheze there's a message with: Please note that if the file is a bit large (~ >2MB) you will need to request an import as this cannot be done here due to technical limitations. Most imports into a wiki will be approaching or larger than 2 Mb, especially if because of CC-by-SA the XML includes all the revisions, e.g. an export of Pokémon from en.wikipedia, is 29 Mb. Wiki administrators should be able to import XML larger than 2 Mb. Rob Kam (talk) 12:45, 24 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I belive that the 2MB limit was put in place to prevent site instability. Imports over 2MB can be requested at Special:RequestImportDump. Tali64³ (talk) 12:51, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there are timeouts when you attempt to import more than 2MB, there is no hard limit per se but trying to will almost always result in a timeout. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 13:45, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

DPL lists aren't working with navboxes?
Hey all. On my wiki I've been using DPL3 to make lists without having to type them out multiple times. This has been working great on normal pages, but when I try to make group lists in navboxes, pages will disappear from it when you view the navbox on that page:


 * The navbox template where everything is displayed correctly: https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:NavboxCookie
 * One of the pages listed in the navbox: https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Aloe_Cookie#Navigation
 * Aloe's page should be listed between Almond and Amber Sugar in the Epic group; it does appear in the template's page and on other Cookies' pages.

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with how links to pages you're currently on are replaced with plain text, but I can't figure out how to get around it. I've made sure that my DPL navbox template outputs lists in a way that should work with navboxes and I know that my previous navboxes displayed correctly with manual lists (https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Dark_Thunderstorm#Navigation). Should I keep working on this or should I just go back to manually typing out lists for navbox templates? Sorry if this is difficult to understand or isn't explained correctly. Soda Cookie (talk) 01:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Think I know what happened here (as a DPL3 user myself): is missing from your DPL calls. --Routhwick (talk) 09:22, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ahhhhh this is exactly it thank you so much :D So glad I don't have to go back to listing things by hand Soda Cookie (talk) 19:10, 26 March 2023 (UTC)