Requests for Comment/Changes to the Dormancy Policy (2)

The Dormancy Policy has been around for a long time, with the last changes to it made in May 2019. It may be one of the most controversial global policies on Miraheze, with many users not liking the fact that if they’re not active for 6 months their wiki will eventually be deleted. It may not be the 'nicest' policy, but it is necessary, as Miraheze doesn’t have the resources to keep all wikis online indefinitely if they’re just not being used anymore. In addition, the Dormancy Policy is already very generous to users and it’s very easy to avoid it altogether, all someone needs to do is have some sort of activity on their wiki, even one edit every few months will prevent the Dormancy Policy from taking effect. Exemptions are of course also granted quite regularly to users with a reason. Additionally, it is easy for users to backup their wikis with Special:DataDump. That being said, since May 2019, some issues have arisen that can be resolved with a new amendment of the policy. Here are some proposals to address them. Thanks to Dmehus for helping to draft this RfC and and to John for their suggestions.

The proposals below are not mutually exclusive unless indicated otherwise. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * (please move this if this is not the appropriate place for general, non-proposal-specific, commentary. Thanks)
 * First let me link to my feedback on the existing policy (posted at its talk page: Talk:Dormancy Policy ). Then: it really isn't "not active for 6 months" that is the crucial time limit, is it? If you don't modify your wiki in only 45 (or is it 60?) days, your wiki is marked inactive, and that is enough cause for nervousness. So whether the policy is "nice" or not, I think most visitors to your site will feel the timeout is far less than six months (which I would have considered generous). Cheers TheDungeonMaster (talk) 12:29, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


 * (If I should have simply added a new RCC below - using formalized change language - I apologize for not being familiar with your procedural routines. Thanks)
 * One RCC I don't see below is a discussion of the actual time period before a Wiki is threatened with closure. Can I suggest it might actually be more productive to offer a more generous time window up-front, and then considerably shorten the various administrative windows before the wiki passes through each stage of inactivity, closure or deletion? The total time from last activity to obliteration can stay the same. Why have only two months and then spend twice as long as that "behind the scenes"? (As if it was a enjoyable game to shuffle wikis from one stage to the other...) Why not allow wikis to remain fully open for 4 months and then use the remaining two to step through the various stages? Put simply: Why put up a warning notice so quickly only to then do nothing for so long? Cheers TheDungeonMaster (talk) 12:47, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 1 (Adoption/Reopening)
The “Adoption” section is changed as follows (now referred to as "reopening," though given the historical usage of the term adoption, it may still be referred to as an adoption process): Immediately after a wiki has been automatically closed (minimum 60 days inactivity) it will be eligible to be reopened at the request of any good-faith user. The user must meet certain activity guidelines (on any wiki), have read-rights on the wiki (if the wiki is private) and provide a reason for requesting to reopen the wiki. While there is no minimum amount of wikis that one can request to reopen, a Steward may decline to reopen a wiki if the user has requested opening a large amount of wikis in a short period of time.

When a request to reopen is approved, no rights are automatically granted to the user who requested the reopening, these are instead granted on a case-by-case basis following a local election.

Note: The above does not preclude a contributing user from requesting from Stewards, usually via Stewards' noticeboard, for user groups below that of the  group that customarily do not require local permissions election (i.e., ,  ,  ,  , etc.), where local administrators are not recently active

"Rationale": The rationale for this change is that it, regarding the immediate adoption possibility it isn't easy for a Steward to know when a wiki has been actually closed, making it difficult for them to know when 14 days have passed. Therefore, since the user hasn't been active in 6 months anyway it would be fair to allow adoption immediately after closure. Additionally, adoption is changed to 'reopening' to better reflect that a user will no longer automatically become bureaucrat/administrator immediately upon reopening.

Support

 * 1)  as proposer, per rationale given above. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  I do like that it formally renames adoption to reopening and clarifies the timeframe.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:23, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  as collaborator on Reception123's draft RfC, and per the proposal's arguments. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  .WolfMan (talk) 09:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  makes sense for me --LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 09:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  I suppose some changes to the Dormancy Policy would be necessary to fulfill what has been missing for so long. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 10:09, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  makes sense. I wonder why was that 14 days gap in between closure and adoption. --Magogre (talk)  12:12, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  Formal version of what is already fact. However, I think it's an excellent opportunity to put a proper resource for what an election entails and an example template into the mainspace to minimize confusion for what that means. I'm not saying as 'you have to do this' rather a 'this is what it means' for those less familiar with wiki/Miraheze conventions. --Raidarr (talk) 12:48, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  --ShriekingSouls (Email me) 12:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 10)  Useful for not making a closure definitive. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:09, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 2.1 (Adoption/Reopening)
A wiki that was closed for reasons outside of the Dormancy Policy (i.e. by a local bureaucrat) may not be reopened/adopted following the Request for Adoption/Request for Reopening process described in this policy.

Note: This is a counter proposal to Proposal 2.2, meaning its passage depends on the other proposal failing or resulting in no consensus

Support

 * 1)  If Proposal 2.2 does not pass, I prefer this one. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:28, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  I too would like this to pass should 2.2 not pass.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  as an alternative to Proposal 2.1, though I think I do prefer Proposal 2.2, albeit a bit mildly. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  WolfMan (talk) 09:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  in practice it seems to me this already happens; I'm not sure what would really change since 'invalid' requests not based on normal process are already being declined and it is possible that an exceptional case can be reviewed by a Steward. It seems to me the latter ability to review exceptional cases is already an informal rule, and at best this addition would make it harder to address them. But I could be misunderstanding, hence a mere abstain. --Raidarr (talk) 12:55, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 2.2 (Adoption/Reopening)
A wiki that was closed for reasons outside of the Dormancy Policy (i.e. by a local bureaucrat) may be reopened following the Request for Adoption/Request for Reopening process described in this policy, unless there was a local public community consultation favouring closure, ideally on-wiki or in a public IRC channel/Discord server which any Steward can access without the need to request access to join.

Note: This is a counter proposal to Proposal 2.1, meaning its passage depends on the other proposal failing or resulting in no consensus

Support

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  I think it makes sense to allow this in the narrow circumstances that are given here which basically means that a wiki can only be reopened this way either if it was closed because of inactivity or if a bureaucrat has closed it without local consensus. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  This would definitely help resolve issues like the ones we've seen recently where bureaucrats close wikis against community consensus and sets out a clearer path for how these sort of situations should be resolved.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  as the mildly preferred option to Proposal 2.1. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  no concerns.WolfMan (talk) 09:12, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  I like this especially on principle, where it's been proven that some users will close wikis specifically to preclude them from reopening when they personally don't wish to continue despite the wiki being 'bigger than them'. --Raidarr (talk) 12:50, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  Offers possibility of redemption after a closure. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:11, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 3 (Private wikis)
Private wikis may only be reopened at the request of a good-faith user who previously held   rights, as at the time of the wiki's closure, on that wiki, notwithstanding private personal wikis wholly or substantially about the originally requesting user where ruling by community consensus would be entirely inappropriate.

Support

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  as proposer. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  This proposal makes sense and helps set out a clearer protocol and guideline to follow in these sort of situations.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:28, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  as obvious and per above. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  It should've been quite obvious by the nature of this proposal. The Dormancy Policy does need a little bit of an upgrade. In short, an improvement is needed here. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 11:34, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  --Magogre (talk)  12:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  --ShriekingSouls (Email me) 12:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  This seems partially in place already (the proposal makes it more explicit), but paired with other language in the proposal I think it's helpful. Not to mention I like the idea either way. --Raidarr (talk) 12:59, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  Obviously yes, that only those involved take care, not unknown randoms. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 4 (Public personal wikis)
Wikis created for as public personal e-portfolio, curriculum vitae (r&eacute;sum&eacute;), blog, or narrowly construed similar wikis of a single user are exempt from the adoption process of Dormancy Policy, as, similar to an aspect of Proposal 3 above, it does not make sense to allow a community of users to hold a local discussion to change the administration of someone's personal public e-portfolio or similar wiki.

Note: that this does not make them automatically exempt from closure due to inactivity; exemptions will still need to be requested from Stewards, which will be assessed by Stewards in terms of both need and content. Note that while this proposal is somewhat connected to Proposal 3, it is mutually exclusive of Proposal 3 and may pass regardless if Proposal 3 passes as Proposal 3 failing would just mean the status quo for Proposal 3 applies

Support

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  as proposer. It makes sense not to allow someone to request to reopen a wiki that was clearly meant to be something personal to one single user. If the user wishes to have the wiki URL, they will have to wait until the wiki is deleted to do so. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  Per Reception123 who summed it up perfectly.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:28, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  as obvious and per above. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  --Magogre (talk)  12:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  --ShriekingSouls (Email me) 12:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  especially for the reasons the proposal highlights. --Raidarr (talk) 13:00, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 5 (Exemptions)
In addition to the current requirements, the following is added:

Exemptions to the Dormancy Policy are granted for a maximum period of two years. After two years, a it can be requested that the exemption is renewed if the reason why an exemption was originally requested still exists.

Support

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:19, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  as proposer. I think given the generous provisions already in place that it's fair to ask bureaucrats to have to renew their exemptions every two years, which is a long time. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  We run on limited resources so it makes sense to ask wikis every so often whether they still require their exemption or not. We don't want literal zombie wikis which were abandoned 5 years ago to still be roaming and eating up server space with viewership that does not justify it's existence.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:32, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  per above. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  per Agent. --Magogre (talk)  12:19, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) ; I think TheDungeonMaster raises a reasonable point, but I think that 2 years is fairly reasonable as well. I also think it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to make a workflow where exemptions are sorted by date and Stewards can check it out every so often, presuming that workflow isn't forgotten of course. --Raidarr (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  Why not, gives some time which could be useful for some contexts. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  If my math is correct, this means that an exemption only saves you a couple of "inputs" (making an edit or comment) to save your wiki. Instead of slightly more than four times during a two-year period touching your wiki, you need to ask once for an exemption. But since the latter choice might lead to follow-up discussion, making you interact several times, not to mention how it adds to the administrative burden of the Miraheze team, is it really any easier than to just not ask for an exemption in the first place? If the exemption period were at least five years, it would actually mean a real saving in time, focus and effort worth maintaining an Exemption Policy in the first place. So my question is: is the short period truly motivated by restrained hardware resources or are you just shooting yourself in the foot here...? :-) Cheers TheDungeonMaster (talk) 12:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 5.1 (Exemptions)
If the data available on Matomo suggests that there are very little or no visits on a wiki exempted from the Dormancy Policy, that exemption may be removed no earlier than six months after it was granted by a Steward. Two weeks prior to removal, notice should be given via a suitable notification method (notably, via a note on Meta user talk pages or via e-mail) to all existing bureaucrats.

Note: If the request for removal of an exemption comes from SRE, it should ideally be requested of Stewards via Stewards' noticeboard. A Steward may then provide the appropriate notification, or they may delegate the notification to an SRE team member, both in accordance with the policy.

Note: Where a wiki with very little or no visits to a wiki suggests it is unused and not being read by multiple people, a Steward should, ideally and as a good practice, generate XML and image dumps and e-mail them either to the most recently active bureaucrat(s), all bureaucrats, or, in the case of personal and/or private wikis, the original requesting wiki bureaucrat, to mitigate data loss. Stewards should advise SRE when this been done and, optionally, copy SRE on the e-mail to bureaucrat(s).

Support

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:20, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Since wikis are granted Dormancy exemptions mainly because of the fact that while they're not edited they are still read, it would not make sense for a wiki that is not active or read by anyone to stay online. If needed again, the bureaucrat will just have to use the XML and image dumps to restore their wiki. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  Extremely reasonable. If the viewership doesn't justify the exemption then why should these wikis continue to take up space?  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:34, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  per above. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  likewise as an extension of my rationale in 5.  Includes a strong steward and core volunteer support, so at least on input it doesn't seem like there is a workload concern here. --Raidarr (talk) 13:05, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  This rule only seems to take in account public wikis. Private wikis are only supposed to be visited by owners and their guests, and thus cannot have visitors similarly to the public wikis. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 6 (Transition)
For wikis granted a Dormancy Policy exemption prior to the initial publication date of this RfC, SRE will not request removal of any indefinite Dormancy Policy exemption until the greater of (a) at least one year has passed since they were first granted the exemption or (b) at least one year has elapsed since the RfC was first made public, due solely to low Matomo visitor statistics. After that, the criteria specified in Proposal 5.1 would apply.

Note: This does preclude Stewards from periodically reviewing indefinitely exempted wikis to see whether wikis still need an exemption (i.e., wikis with very active editing communities) or have sufficient content intended to be read or otherwise used as a resource by real people. In such cases, Stewards, will reach out to recently active bureaucrats (usually via their Meta user talk page) to see whether they still require an exemption and to provide an updated reason for wishing to maintain an exemption. If no response is received after a reasonable period of time in such cases, then a Steward would remove the exemption, ideally generating XML and image dumps as in the above proposal

Support

 * 1)  as proposer, it makes sense to allow wikis that relied on the previous Dormancy Policy provisions more leeway. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Again, does sound extremely fair and reasonable. Additionally, the provision of generating XML and image dumps is a good one as some users later resent having lost access to their work.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 08:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  per Reception123. Dmehus (talk) 08:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  for the principle and continuity. Again I think TDM raises a fair point, but with a Steward in support I don't think it's prohibitive. Though I think the proposal could do just fine if the attached notes were streamlined to just note the goals, rather than detail out the process. --Raidarr (talk) 13:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Opposed by principle as opposed to the Proposal 5.1 this rule depends on. --EdwardMaginot (talk) 13:20, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)   Anpang   Talk   Stuff  08:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Meh. The language already says "a Steward may" (my emphasis). It would follow no formal transition rule would be necessary if Stewards can be assumed to use common sense rather than follow rules to the letter, rather than never giving any leeway unless forced to. Is this wiki really that big you have Stewards that must be told what to do through formal language? Cheers TheDungeonMaster (talk) 12:51, 28 November 2021 (UTC)