User talk:Raidarr

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So...
Are you actually retiring or what? Not to be impatient, just curious. Money12123 (contribs | CentralAuth) 22:33, 29 December 2022 (UTC)


 * He is. Raidarr won't have the ability to contribute until July 2023 at the minimum. Tali64³ (talk) 23:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Nevermind that, Raidarr just appeared in the Miraheze Discord server. He expected to be away for longer than a little over a month and a half. Tali64³ (talk) 16:12, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Complimenting what was said; I expect to be gone from any serious roles for the immediate future, but the life affairs that took me out entirely have already ended and so I'm able to stop by once in a while starting now. --Raidarr (talk) 14:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

One star for you!

 * Thank you for the good fortunes, best of luck to you as well. --Raidarr (talk) 13:28, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Off-wiki references and name-calling
Hello Raidarr.

Please note that the recent conversation in #miraheze was the result of a discussion on who should be authorized to close an RfC. I stated on-wiki, that any uninvolved user may close an RFC, while another user stated off-wiki that only "functionaries" may. The result was a conversation on IRC who can and cannot close RfCs, which subsequently means who is and is not a functionary. It seems however that some users not present got the idea that I randomly started a conversation on IRC on what the term functionary means, which is wrong on three counts and only exists to villify specific targets and not accomplish anything, ironically having the same issue apparently present with the conversation itself.

In addition, you referred to a specific user as the most willfully ornery user on the platform. Even referring to someone as "willfully ornery" on their own is not a good idea, much less the most so on the platform. Words can hurt. I suspected when reading this that you were referring to myself, but did not want to assume and asked to be sure. You declined to answer, likely because this name-calling is not compliant with VCP, and certainly unbecoming of a self-identified global sysop. Please stop.

There is no need to ascribe malice to anyone especially where there is none present, unfavor on-wiki conversations elsewhere, or make pointless personal attacks or name-calling without any real reason to do so. Naleksuh (talk) 04:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Respectfully, you are quite combative indeed. Most conversations on IRC where you participate end up in full blown arguments and most, if not all active users, who have interacted with you on IRC at some point have had a negative encounter. At some point, you must recognize that these issues aren't one off dispute with a single user on a single topic but rather something that occurs with frequence and thus is something that you yourself must address. I implore you to please consider sitting it out on some IRC conversations. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If it were up to me, conversations regarding policy or anything that should happen on-wiki would be prohibited entirely, but unfortunately they are not and infact people will take actions onwiki referencing them. Naleksuh (talk) 04:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are ways to address topics civilly but the fact that so many conversations implode into arguments is a sign that these are not being addressed in a proper manner. You pick everything apart and argue things relentlessly to the point that you make various users feel uncomfortable and exhausted. Once again, I would implore you to please take some time off. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:59, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree, but regardless it does not appear to have anything to do with the topic. Naleksuh (talk) 05:02, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Raidarr said you were ornery which means combative. I'm concurring and asking you to sit it out on some conversations on IRC as this behavior is evident and can be corroborated by so many users. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 05:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is something that I've wanted to say for a while. Since November 2022 to be honest. It's never been quite the right time, but it seems now it is.
 * You pointed out that words hurt. Words do hurt. Words can hurt very much, as a matter of fact. Raidarr's words seemed to have hurt you. I'll also offer another point of view. Your words and actions have hurt too. Hurt a lot, to a lot of people. You constantly bicker about pointless things, stressing users out when frankly, they're already stressed out enough. You take issue with every minor action, find the most obscure details to argue about. You push arguments when they don't need to be pushed, argue semantics when they don't need to be argued. Stewards will make a decision, and you'll find something to argue about. You seem to relish the chance to start a debate.
 * You make others uncomfortable when having a conversation. You push, and you push, and you push countless people to their breaking point, myself included. Yes, words hurt. But it's not one-sided. You need to realize that you have an effect on people, for better or for worse. Sadly, lately it's been a lot "for worse".
 * Personally, I believe you could offer a lot to Miraheze. You're extremely intelligent, as all these debates have shown, and you are extremely experienced with JavaScript, having helped immensely with the development and upkeep of the Twinkle gadget on Miraheze. You have a lot of skills to offer, but you're going about it the wrong way. You constantly attack and attack and attack. You don't let people rest. Everybody's just trying to keep Miraheze afloat but you always have something negative to add to the conversation. Your words hurt. You go around telling that to others, but you need to look in the mirror and wake up. Raidarr's words were justified, because sadly, they've been true as of late, and so many users realize that.
 * Maybe this message will make a difference, maybe it won't. But I want to try. You've hurt a lot of people, including me. I hope you realize that. This isn't meant to push you away from Miraheze, it's just trying to get you to see the impact of your actions. Best -- BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 05:08, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Naleksuh,
 * While I will admit I started to veer into overly blunt and rather rude opinion, you have a genuine tendency to be ornery for its own sake. You've done it since well before I even got here and the only reason you have not been struck for a Code of Conduct violation or a larger community action is because you always manage to skeet around the line where people are willing to pursue those actions in full. If it was anyone else, say a new person, they likely would have earned themselves a lock by now. You've gotten a curious blend of special treatment for your endless stream of insinuations, putting words in people's mouths, shameless streaks of rudeness and essentially all the behavior which I've noticed Wikipedia had already tired of and clearly for good reason. When called out you fade into the shadows, ignoring the critique, or deflect, I think I may have seen you begrudgingly own up maybe once or twice.
 * Now, if you want to pursue further action based on my assessment of your activities on the platform then that is your liberty to take. Maybe I'm too forward as a global functionary. But that's where that comment came from because I don't think anyone else here has been honest enough with you, directly to you. It's a shame because for being the most deliberately ornery person on Meta/IRC/the periphery wikis, you occasionally have points worth considering with more nuance then people are willing to admit upfront. This is probably why nobody has gone ahead with the above solutions. But you dress them in such aggressive underlays and make a bone out of anything or nothing at all that you really undermine the credibility you might have. I tend to be bemused when you try to call people for civility. It's often in association with a mess in which you are usually the cause.
 * Before you tell me to not ascribe malice given your ironic record, you should stop placing insinuations on other people routinely. In this I have faith you'll give practical examples in the future and to be honest if you don't know what I mean then I don't think I can help you by trying to link every example. I would be happy to be wrong, and not see this proven right in the near or farther future in case this results in another break. --Raidarr (talk) 12:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just for record-keeping purposes, Naleksuh elected not to take time off. I again hope that this can all be resolved without further issue and drama. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Outing
Per consensus earlier this year regarding the Discord situation, handles outside of Miraheze may not be posted without consent of the affected user. Please refrain from doing so in the future as they can and should be oversighted. Thank you Naleksuh (talk) 16:05, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you think is outing, but no, they cannot be oversighted. I'm not sure what consensus you're referring to, but I have not heard of it. The Discord server is public; if someone publicly states what their Miraheze and Discord accounts are, that is not "outing" or personal information. Collei (talk) 17:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, users can say what their Discord account is, if they have one. This is an issue with users declaring what others accounts are without their consent (or even explicitly not having it). Naleksuh (talk) 17:15, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Please link the consensus you are attempting to reference and where it was determined. Personally I find your latest edit war to have no basis whatsoever. What I posted cannot and will not be oversighted under reasonable circumstances. The ceaseless attempts to avoid scrutiny for your activities have become impressive to say the least. --Raidarr (talk) 17:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This happened when a user repeatedly added Discord handles without oversight. The "Miraheze Voluntteers" page details it. Agent also did not oversight on a pretty lame technicality, and not because doing this is fine. I don't have to answer anything regarding non-Miraheze items, though I can choose to do so if I would like. Naleksuh (talk) 17:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Also regarding allegedly avoiding scrutiny....how? You have done nothing BUT scrutinize me for the last several days, including for things I didn't even do. Naleksuh (talk) 17:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You have not provided an actual discussion, and non-discussion, non-policy pages are certainly not how policies and consensus are established. A squabble about handles on a chat client also has no pertinence to having an account named Naleksuh that can be found on open search with a history on a platform you very regularly like to reference and which has often been closely connected or referenced otherwise on Miraheze. I don't have to protect public information on a publicly browsable platform.
 * Please link to the things I claim you did that you didn't do. I'm happy to get into specifics. --Raidarr (talk) 17:44, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that since this point is clearly disputed, a community discussion would have to be opened in order to demand enforcement such a rule, just like it was here where the practice I was trying to enforce was not eventually endorsed by the community and was dropped as a result. I personally would be against such a policy and don't think it can be considered 'outing' to reference events on another platform which can easily be found by searching "[Username] [name of platform]" on the largest search engines. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 18:22, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I was somewhat hoping Raidarr would stop because I asked them to, but it doesn't seem like they plan to comply with any sort of privacy request unless forced to. You can discuss what constitutes outing if you want, though your definition is really hard to follow; i.e. it's OK to out these people but not these people based on how many handles are the same, what shows up on search engines etc. I think a bright line rule is better- either you can send whatever you want as long as it's legal, or you post them with user's consent only. Naleksuh (talk) 18:33, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm also worried given the recent events that this going to be written in a way that makes it okay to out me but not others. I was not affected by the Discord incident because I do not have a Discord account, but if I did I certainly would not want people posting it publicly. Naleksuh (talk) 18:36, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I will not comply with a privacy request that is not a matter of privacy. My definition is: it's private. It's not public knowledge nor meant to be. I will adhere to "send whatever you want as long as it's legal" atop a few good practices/explicit policy because that is where actual policy exists. Your 'user's consent' principle is inconsistently applied and needlessly specific. In this case it works out to obscure or avoid subjects such as 'is there more of a record of this behavior elsewhere?' such as a ban on ENWiki for very similar reasons to the request for rights removal made here. It connects well with removing similar evidence from your talk page here simply because you can and making people dig in your talk page history to find the plentiful evidence that yes, there is a problem and it bears uncanny resemblence to what happened before on EN Wiki, a place you regularly cite policy and practice from and which has close connections to Miraheze in terms of what Miraheze is inspired by. I bring this up to address "avoiding scrutiny? how" mentioned above. If it is not intentional it is uncannily convenient.
 * If you can go ahead and find something by a name in google search or indeed, anything in open channels from discord or irc when it is easily found and logs are plentiful, and it's all supposed to be where you find it (ie it's not private stuff that was linked) then yes, it can be referenced. If it's relevant is another discussion. I'll even accept breaches of this such as John posting messages that were posted in confidence on another platform with the expectation of privacy, but where true rules/policy on privacy were not made nor enforced. --Raidarr (talk) 18:59, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Raidarr, Reception123, and Collei's assessment of the situation. A ban on the Wikimedia Foundation's sites is not private. If I go to the WMF's CentralAuth, or simply look up "Wikipedia Naleksuh", there will be results, and the results will show the same. The same can be said for Discord and IRC. Usernames are publicly accessible simply by searching it up or looking at Miraheze's Discord server. There's no personal information there. The whole note on the Miraheze Volunteers page is in my opinion, stupid. There's no point for it because it isn't private. Phone numbers, addresses, real names, that is private. Discord usernames and Wikimedia Foundation accounts (especially ones with the same exact username as Miraheze) aren't. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 19:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll say right now that you're all allowed to state what my Discord tag is if I've publicly connected it to my Miraheze account, even if I made the connection in a public server off-wiki. You could also mention which servers I've been banned in (I'll make it easy for you: Nilou Mains, Yoimiya Mains, and Keqing Mains) and the reasons (Nilou Mains and Keqing Mains for making inappropriate jokes, and Yoimiya Mains for an unknown reason because I never got a ban message). Same goes for public emails, GitHub, etc. I was globally blocked from Fandom quite a few years ago (I think for vandalism? I'm not sure) for on an account that I forgot the username of (I was probably 11-12 at oldest when that happened).
 * A non-exhaustive list of information that I wouldn't want shared: phone number, real name, address, social media profiles that I don't intend to connect to my Miraheze account, etc. All of that information should be protected, and in fact, if you were able to find any of that information, please email me about it in private.
 * Here's a non-exhaustive list of websites that have, according to Naleksuh's definition, outed nearly everyone on Miraheze:
 * https://duckduckgo.com
 * https://startpage.com
 * https://google.com
 * https://bing.com
 * https://twitter.com
 * https://mastodon.social
 * etc.
 * Collei (talk) 03:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Good to know, but that wasn't really necessary. You can declare something like that on your userpage. Raidarr's outing has been oversighted, so this conversation should be done now. Naleksuh (talk) 03:35, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Naleksuh, people have clearly laid out their problems with you. The formal warnings you have received about behavior on IRC, the friendly reminders, the statements from new and experienced users alike, what I said to you on CN, etc. should be enough. If the "mistakes" you make over and over again - with complete ignorance towards what other people say in response - are really done in good faith, then I guess you are just (and I usually prefer to avoid saying this) simply incapable of contributing constructively. You do not know how Miraheze works. You do not understand what is considered annoying, offensive, or w:WP:BITEy, what consensus means, what outing is, and so on. I'm not aware of a single time that you admitted to a mistake or were wiling to compromise on something. You believe that all issues are severe, and you believe that everything must be resolved the way you want.
 * When I joined Miraheze, you were probably one of the least pleasant people I met. I came here because I wanted to make a wiki about Genshin Impact that doesn't have all the ads and other garbage that Fandom has. Now all I see Miraheze volunteers involved in is arguments about what a functionary means, what harassment is, what outing is, what the consensus on Discord tags is, etc.
 * I doubt that it was oversighted as personal information. It was probably oversighted because if it wasn't, this talk page will be 100kb large. No, I'm not contributing anything productive by arguing with you, because it will always go nowhere. You will always cherry-pick random parts of a message, point to irrelevant policies and non-existent consensus, and in your latest reply, your only counter is that Agent oversighted it, which as I explained before, isn't a firm statement on whether it's personal information. The only reason I continue to reply is because I'm tired of having to pretend that I have no issue wih your actions, because if anyone ever says anything towards you, it causes more problems.
 * I am not the only one who thinks this. If I mentioned anyone by name, you would start a massive thread on CN trying to demote the entirety of SRE, Stewards, and CVT like you did before when you proposed demoting everyone with access to the #the-cabal, but these concerns are not only mine, but the concerns of many, many Miraheze users. Collei (talk) 03:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You are putting me in an interesting position by accusing me of arguing and prolonging things while also making accusations that I need to respond to to protect myself. I know why these edits were oversighted because it was explicitly communicated to me. I did not simply "guess" that it was private information as you are implying, nor would Oversight tools to be used just because of the current page size. You don't know, and saying that "just because it was oversighted doesn't mean that it was private information" -- it is, and it does, because that was explicitly concluded. Again, for all for the times the NEEDTOKNOW essay is misused, this is actually an example of a time WP:NEEDTOKNOW applies. You don't have to try so hard to prove something bad. And if you have doubts, the contact info is available at any time for you.
 * These kinds of things are supposed to be dealt with privately, and I hate that people are forcing me to discuss Oversight issues publicly at all. But I guess that's the situation we are in, because my choices are either for this issue to go on for longer or to simply let these untruths stand, which will in turn in the future be used against me even more. For example the users who have agreed with me either get argued with until they give up or bullied into retiring. So, can we just stop? You don't have to find a way to frame every single thing against me, or "prove" that functionaries are violating the Oversight policy just for me, when on the contrary Agent doesn't like me any more than you do. As OrangeStar cited WP:DEADHORSE. This is not useful, either for you, or for me, or for Miraheze. Just stop saying these things and that can be the end of it right there. Naleksuh (talk) 04:22, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Formal warning to all involved in this matter : Please refrain from making further comments that serve little purpose other than to escalate the problem and attack each other. I find there has been a disturbing quantity of messages in this and other threads that are borderline disruptive in the way they drag out the conflict and provide absolutely no room for de-escalation. If you cannot interact with each other in a civil manner, then please refrain from replying to each other. I will be issuing full warnings regarding the behavior I don't want to see continuing in the next day or two (time permitting), but I may issue blocks for egregious conduct without further warning.
 * Also, can we leave off-platform behavior (i.e. conduct that did not occur on a Miraheze wiki, on the Miraheze Discord, or in one of the Miraheze IRC channels) out of the discussion? I can understand the intention of proving a pattern or history of similar behavior, but on the other hand, in this case it did not add to constructive discussion. This is not an invitation to further elaborate on it, or to attempt to make it constructive. -- Void  Whispers 06:21, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * understood Collei  ( talk ) ( contribs ) 06:33, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I will disengage on this topic for at least 1-2 days because I am clearly too worked-up and expressing bottled-up anger in a thread mostly unrelated to the issues I have. Collei ( talk ) ( contribs ) 07:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Personal Attacks and other things
Hello, I tried to get Agent Isai to ban problematic indviduals that have broken your TOS, but so far they have taken no action. Please, ban these users.
 * If it's the same content as I replied to initially on Agent's talk page, then the basis to intervene is virtually nonexistent and leans on Tali digging up poor phrasing from block summaries (and at the very least it is not a TOS issue) and I do not intend to take the actions you request especially since your response to my assessment there barely touched on the problems I raised. It frankly seems evasive. I ask you to provide more clarity on what this is all about in your own words, or to otherwise drop the subject. I may inquire to the local administrators at some point to find more background, but otherwise it seems to be an off-platform drama carried into here. --Raidarr (talk) 22:31, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I have shown their their unproffesional behaviour on other wikis, and a peronal attack while banning me for no reason other than spite. That last instance is clearly against your TOS, while the former are red flags that they'll continue their aggresisve behaviour here. Kubbadang (talk) 13:23, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Please take action. I know off-site harassment doesn't matter much, but these individuals are criminals and driving me to suicide. Kubbadang (talk) 22:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that this is happening. Unfortunately we are volunteers here and we can't act as fast as we might want to, especially in complex cases like the one you present. Please note that in order for users to be warned/potentially blocked they would have to be violated the Global Conduct Policy or other global policies and merely "unproffesional behaviour" wouldn't really reach the threshold. Please provide specific links to where you think the policy was violated and which parts of it. If you prefer you can also email stewards@undefinedmiraheze.org. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 13:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Wiki report
Drawn Fanon Feet Wiki is filled with nothing but disgusting fetish art of underage characters. Specific examples include these three pages and these three files. And those are just the tip of the iceberg. The whole wiki is filled with disgusting fetish art like that. This is a violation of Article I, Section VI and Article II of the Content Policy. Please shut down this wiki as soon as you can. In fact, I think the creator of the wiki should be globally blocked, too. Buzzfan120 (talk) 01:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I believe there was a similar report on SN a short time ago, filed by me. I don't recall if it's the same exact wiki, but the images are similar from my memory. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 05:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * First, @Buzzfan120, such reports should be done on Stewards' noticeboard.
 * Second - yes @BrandonWM, it's the same wiki. Your thread got archived, it seems.
 * And third, I just checked all uploaded over there files (sigh) and I have couple of points but I don't feel like going over them on Raidarr's talk page, of all places. In short, your report doesn't look like it was actually made in a good faith, because I can see room for assumptions and, contary to your point, not all content on the wiki violates Content Policy. However, there are violations made by different users in April and March worthy of report. If wiki's administrators will ignore a firm call for action then it's all for stewards to shut down wiki for not compiling with Miraheze policies.
 * KatozzKita (talk) 08:50, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, sorry. I'll use the Stewards' noticeboard next time. Buzzfan120 (talk) 21:39, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This report is not compelling and the links here are not enough to justify purging the wiki off, and there is certainly not basis to go after the accounts globally. However I recall something on the SN being posted that was a little more persuasive and I recommend someone bring that back up so it can be triaged on the SN. The images and content are weird, but the stewards don't act purely on weird or uncomfortable. Something more specific is required to act. --Raidarr (talk) 09:55, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This diff is the original report on SN. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 15:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * }