Requests for Comment/Autopatroller group split

'''Note: This RFC only affects Meta and does not apply globally. ''' It has been recently noticed and discussed that it doesn't really make sense for the "Autopatroller" group to also be able to patrol others' edits as that defeats the purpose of its name. Therefore, I propose that a new group called "Patroller" is created, and autopatrollers lose the ability to patrol others' edits. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:40, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 1

 * The current Autopatrolled users group on on Meta is are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically.
 * Patrollers on Meta are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically as well as the ability to mark other users' edits as patrolled as well.

Support

 * 1)  Per the name, it only implies that users can patrol their own edits. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) Conditional  per above, though we could also rename Autopatrolled users to Patrollers and add   to autoconfirmed users, as is the case on other coordination wikis. I strongly support either proposal, though. It is conditional upon the group names being autopatrolled users to Patrollers (if keeping a separate autopatrolled users group). Dmehus (talk) 15:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am a bit confused by your definition of "rename"? Do you mean that all currently autopatrolled users become patrollers? If so, there are proposals for that below. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No, not at all. I just mean re-wording the group names to autopatrolled users and patrollers in terms of the MediaWiki interface message page names and the page names on Meta, and in this RfC. Very minor, innocuous change I hope you don't mind making above. Dmehus (talk) 16:19, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 1)  Per Reception123  16:08, 13 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |

Proposal 1.1

 * Autopatrolled users on Meta are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically.
 * Patrollers on Meta are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically as well as the ability to mark other users' edits as patrolled and quickly rollback the edits of the last user who edited a particular page as well.
 * Note: If Proposal 1 passes, this proposal 1.1 becomes moot and, thus, cannot pass.

Oppose

 * 1)  per my comments at Administrators' noticeboard. Users with the   may not need, or may not yet be trusted with, as applicable, with  . I would support adding   to Rollbackers. Dmehus (talk) 15:56, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) * This vote again is related to whether current autopatrollers get moved to the new patrol group. Personally I am considering whether this proposal would make more sense than mine, but of course that would mean that current autopatrollers wouldn't be affected. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 16:00, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3) ** Per my conversation with you on Discord, there are users I'd trust to help with patrolling, but not necessarily,, so favour, strongly your Proposal 1 and Proposal 5 as an alternative to this. We do need more trusted volunteer patrollers; by including  , we limit our available pool of patrollers. Dmehus (talk) 16:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments
I suggest adding patrol privileges to the existing Rollbackers group.I'm still thinking about what to do with the group name.--松•Matsu (talk) 15:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say I'd be opposed to this, to simplify the number of user groups added to rollbackers, but I still think we should have a separate Patrollers group because  is a serious user right, and shouldn't necessarily be granted to the same users capable of patrolling revisions. So, I'd favour a separate group, however that works itself out. As to group names, I favour autopatrolled users, as is currently the case, and patrollers as they are users that would be patrolling other users' edits. Dmehus (talk) 15:47, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Moved from Meta:Administrators' notice board.--松•Matsu (talk) 15:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 1.1.1

 * Autopatrolled users on Meta are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically.
 * Patrollers on Meta are users who have ability to mark their own edits as patrolled automatically as well as the ability to mark other users' edits as patrolled and quickly rollback the edits of the last user who edited a particular page as well.
 * This proposal is only valid if Proposal 2 (Transfer) is passed.

Comments
Even if we rewind, we can easily revert the edit by specifying the version before rewinding.Therefore rollback is not that powerful.Also, I think that it is unnatural for the user who is entrusted to patrol not have the authority to undo the vandalism.Since the Autopatroller privilege is separated, it is expected that the Autopatroller privilege will be granted more easily and the need for patrol will be lessened. It is possible to have sufficient time to talk to grant this privilege. --松•Matsu (talk) 16:25, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * But it's also not that hard to request a separate  permission via Administrators' noticeboard. And, if users are included within Rollbackers, they would have the   permission. We just need to have separate Patrollers and Rollbackers groups for the different levels of trust placed in users, and to be able to grant patroller more readily. Plus, many other wiki projects have separate Autopatrolled users, Patrollers, and Rollbackers groups. Dmehus (talk) 16:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd probably support this proposal, strongly, if you modify it to remove  from the list of rights. Rollback can be granted via the separate Rollbackers group, or we could add another Proposal 6 to add   to Rollbackers, so users who hold both Patrollers and Rollbackers can drop "patrollers," if they wish. Dmehus (talk) 16:33, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 2 (Transfer)
Current autopatrolled users are no longer able to  other users' edits and must request patroller rights if they would like to be able to patrol others' edits

Support

 * 1)  I believe it is the best way for administrators to review who is also trusted enough to patrol others' edits. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)  Waffled on this one, but since it's granted with administrator discretion, we can review recent patrollers, and re-grant patroller to recent, active patrollers, notwithstanding users who have recently retired. Dmehus (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3)   16:12, 13 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |

Proposal 3 (Transfer)
Current autopatrolled users are transferred to the patroller group if Proposal 1 is successful.

Oppose

 * 1)  While to some this may make sense, checking Special:ListUsers I see there are loads of autopatrolled users who I would not necessarily also trust to patrol edits on Meta. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:47, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Reception123 above. Dmehus (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3)   16:13, 13 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |

Proposal 4
Rollbackers group is removed and current rollbackers are transferred to patroller group if Proposal 1 is successful.

Oppose

 * 1)  per my comments above. There's a use case for this group, but it should not be bundled with patrollers, per my comments above, as I say. Dmehus (talk) 16:01, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)   16:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |

Proposal 5
Current rollbackers group is maintained, but existing rollbackers will have their rights removed, and can re-request.

Support

 * 1)  per nom. Current rollbackers haven't used   lately anyway. It makes sense to have separate groups. Dmehus (talk) 16:13, 13 August 2020 (UTC)