Meta:Administrators' noticeboard

I want to add a CodeMirror extension to this wiki
I would like this wiki to introduce CodeMirror Extensions with. Reason ... It's hard to see when writing in wiki text. This tool can be turned on and off at any time by the individual user. Waki285 (talk) 03:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)


 * First, thank you for this suggestion, which I have procedurally moved from community noticeboard to here, where it is now notionally in scope, as I can actually see a good use case for enabling CodeMirror on Meta Wiki. At the same time, I believe Universal Omega has also enabled it on his DC Multiverse Wiki together with VisualEditor. Generally speaking, we should probably leave this discussion open for approximately 3-5 calendar days or so, to encourage anyone else to express an opinion, and then I'll reach out to the steward bureaucrat John to effect this change. Thanks again. Dmehus (talk) 04:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * With no objections from anyone in more than a week, this is ✅ as it's a reasonable request. Dmehus (talk) 22:32, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Please specify Category Pages as the translation target
Please specify Category:Stewards as the translation target.--Waki285 (talk) 05:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Sabelöga (talk) 05:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you like, you can also prepare the rest of the categories in Category:Global user groups to be consistent. Sabelöga (talk) 05:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Please also Template:Update. Waki285 (talk) 04:05, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm less familiar with translatable templates, but this does seem fine to me, so ✅. I assume you'll need to use it conjunction with TNT, correct? Dmehus (talk) 04:42, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, otherwise the translations tags will show on the target page ;) --Sabelöga (talk) 06:16, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Removing my flag
With my recent successful election to steward, I really do not require the  flag on Meta Wiki, so if any Meta bureaucrat could kindly remove the flag for me, that would be great.

Thanks,

Dmehus (talk) 01:47, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * unless you’re resigning the relevant rights. Steward is not a permission to supersede local rights. John (talk) 01:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . Though you and I ended up having a conversation on IRC, I felt that it would be important for me to clarify on-wiki the intent behind my unusually brief request. Indeed, I know that the steward role is not a substitute for local user groups, but was mainly wondering whether a Meta bureaucrat would be able to provide me a local authorization to use the user rights as part of the Meta interface administrator user group (since that group itself is a discretionary appointment). Following my conversation with you, while that could be done in theory, in practical terms, from the sounds of it, there exists no local policy on providing for this delegation. Perhaps that's a local discussion the Meta Wiki community could have at some point, defining the user rights the global groups may use and under what conditions they may use them regardless of whether the local user groups are also held. At any rate, following your suggestion, I'll hang onto the user group for the time being. Thanks again. Dmehus (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Update list of current stewards at Stewards
Since Dmehus is now a steward, may a Meta administrator update the list at Stewards? Justarandomliberal (talk) 03:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I will try and have all the user group lists updated later this evening. Thanks. Dmehus (talk) 03:30, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This has been ✅ by . If you ever see minor inconsistencies between the user list subpages, please don't hesitate to make the update(s) yourself, taking care to leave a clear edit summary and, optionally, linking to a relevant permalink/diff in said edit summary. Thanks again for your reporting this, and for your community contributions. Dmehus (talk) 17:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is unfortunately, ❌. List of Stewards has not been updated yet. R4356th (talk) 20:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * And I cannot edit that page since it is protected. :( R4356th (talk) 20:33, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I didn't even know that List of Stewards existed, actually. It looks like it existed prior to Stewards/List being created, so I've simply ✅ in the revisions prior to today, since the wikitable was broadly similar to that at Stewards/List, and now is appropriately credited as page creator of Stewards/List. So, now ✅. Dmehus (talk) 21:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. R4356th (talk) 21:36, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Dmehus (talk) 21:37, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I have destroyed User:Lily/global.js
I did not realize that I was in metawiki when I moved my global.js and edited the redirect link, now I cannot edit the page because it redirects to a page outside user namespace. Pls delete the page, so I can restore my old global.js, thank you very much Lily (Lilypond Wiki · talk to me · little garden · my wiki of everything) 14:19, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I've moved it back to the original page. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Greetings LilyLilyu - smile.svg (Lilypond Wiki · talk to me · little garden · my wiki of everything) 15:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note that I have procedurally moved this request from stewards' noticeboard to Administrators' noticeboard. Basically, Administrators' noticeboard is the venue for any requests about users or pages on Meta that requires administrator intervention]], local, small-ish community proposals, and local discretionary appointment permissions requests granted by either a local administrator or bureaucrat. Community noticeboard is technical support questions regarding your wiki, small-ish global community proposals, questions about Miraheze or MediaWiki generally, and requests to add interwiki prefixes to your wiki. Stewards' noticeboard is basically for anything requiring steward attention that isn't handled elsewhere on other related noticeboards (i.e., requests for adoption). Hope that helps. Glad the issue was ✅, too. Dmehus (talk) 16:50, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Unassigned user right
I noticed that the steward user group is able to view the number of page watchers of a given page on Meta Wiki, something the local Meta administrators cannot do, presumably because the user right  is unassigned locally. It's included within the  and   global groups, but not any local user groups. On TestWiki, we have it assigned to the  user group and, indeed, on English Wikipedia, they, too, have assigned it to the   user group, though interestingly, the number of page watchers is still visible to non-administrators on that wiki, so that suggests, perhaps, there's some sort of additional configuration change we'd need to make? Nevertheless, as I can see a use case for Meta administrators, or even all users, potentially, being able to see the number of page watchers of a given page, I'd like to add the  user right to either (a)   or, perhaps, (b)   and   maybe? As Meta Wiki is rather unique in its management structure in that it is a steward-managed wiki with local Meta bureaucrats managing the closing of local permissions requests, RfCs, and Meta community discussions at AN, I thought I'd post this idea here to see if anyone had any objections to me making this change? Though local bureaucrat approval is not likely required, since it does affect the the user rights of Meta administrators, feedback from any Meta bureaucrats is of particular interest to me. Thanks. Dmehus (talk) 13:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have no objections to this and think it was likely an oversight. Sysops on EnWiki also have the right, and I don't see why sysops here on Meta shouldn't. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * With the endorsement of local Meta Wiki bureaucrat and no objections from anyone in more than two days, this is now ✅. Meta administrators can now view , something that was most likely an inadvertent oversight. Dmehus (talk) 22:41, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Request for Enabling Extensions Report and EditCount
The Report extension will allow registered users to report revisions privately to sysops (default, can be changed). And sysops will be able to review the reports from Special:HandleReports. I think this will be helpful for fighting vandalism and sharing private information with admins. said that he would propose it for enabling here on the Phabricator task for installing this on Miraheze and on Discord. EditCount will implement a special page for showing users' local edit count allowing users to transclude their edit count in their signatures. This extension is not very important but would be good, in my opinion. R4356th (talk) 17:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I would have no objection to these extensions be enabled on Meta Wiki as they're both either useful or small, but will wait to see if either of have any thoughts, so will give it a few days before enabling. My only concern with the Report extension is whether or not that extension will create a new   user group and overwrite the existing   group. If not, that is to say, if the extension first checks if an existing group exists prior to overwriting and creating, then I have no concerns. Dmehus (talk) 17:20, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It adds a new user right called  which is assigned to Sysops by default (but as I mentioned earlier, it can be changed). R4356th (talk) 17:27, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, my mistake...I was thinking of Patroller, which I haven't requested be installed on Miraheze yet&mdash;still debating whether to request it, but may file a Phabricator task in a few weeks. I'll wait until at least adds a comment, giving his blessing to Meta administrators having no opposition to having that added user right. Dmehus (talk) 17:35, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think EditCount should be fine to enable and may be useful. As for Report, I'm not sure how useful it would be to us really, but I don't object to us giving it a try and if it doesn't work out disabling it afterwards. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 07:35, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Considering Report might turn out to be problematic if there are spam reports or new users mistakenly using it, do you think community consensus is necessary here? R4356th (talk) 07:49, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a potentially valid question, but considering that Meta administrators are the only ones that would be viewing the special page, I would say no, actually. And actually, that would be a stronger argument against requiring a formal community proposal to enable the extension, as we want to be able to disable the extension quickly if it were misused. I see no problem trying it out, as the use case for this would be for Meta patrollers to report problematic revisions requiring revision deletion (i.e., editor who logged out or grossly defamatory or insulting comments, etc.), since revision deletion requests can't simply be tagged with delete like page deletion requests. Since administrators are the only users that can see the reports, this is an ideal way to report such requests. Plus, creating a new thread at Administrators' noticeboard for every grossly defamatory or insulting revision requiring deletion is a bit much, in my opinion (though reporting revisions of users who likely edited while logged out would normally be reported privately; however, since administrators are the only ones that can see the page, this is a reasonable reporting avenue). Dmehus (talk) 13:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree that I don't think there's much harm in at least trying it out and seeing if it works for us, it could be an interesting tool for us. If it doesn't, it can be quickly removed as Dmehus says. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:58, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * okay, great. R4356th (talk) 16:35, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * With that, this is now ✅. Dmehus (talk) 22:50, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! R4356th (talk) 09:57, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Enabled the Purge extension on Meta Wiki
Hi everyone,

As Meta Wiki has somewhat of a unique governance structure in that it is a Steward-managed wiki, with Meta bureaucrats overseeing such things as local Meta community proposals and RfCs and stewards managing most other aspects of the wiki, I have enabled the Purge extension by way of this log action, and am providing this courtesy notification to the Meta Wiki community of this action. For one thing, I am constantly having to alter my web address by adding  to the end of the URL, so having a purge link in the "More" tab would be quite helpful. Additionally, most or all of the Wikimedia wikis have this extension enabled. The extension's documentation recommends assigning the  user right to registered, logged in users, to prevent search engine crawlers from crawling purge links and adding to server load. I have verified with this special page that this indeed the configuration. Though unlikely to bring any objections, should the Meta Wiki community have any thoughts on this, this thread would be the place to do it. Dmehus (talk) 03:11, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Request to delete my Meta user page
Hello, I would like to delete my Meta user page, so that I could create a global user page in the Login wiki instead. JasonHK (talk) 14:41, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 15:01, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Meta community proposal regarding the use of the Report tool
Recently, following the Report extension being installed on Miraheze after passing a security review, in accordance with system administrator procedures for installing new extensions, it was requested to be installed on Meta. Meta patroller R4356th supported, along with Meta bureaucrat Reception123 and myself, with the prevailing view that it would be useful for conveniently reporting, confidentially to Meta administrators, revisions that either (a) are blatant vandalism or (b) require revision deletion, at minimum. The first two reports by Meta users have been good-faith, but incorrect, uses of the report tool. I do continue to believe that for these two purposes, the tool has incredible value and use on Meta; however, I think we need to change the user group(s) that have access to the extension-added user right,, which is used to report revisions for administrator attention.

Though not required to, officially, I am going to refrain from taking a position as the proposer of this proposal, other than to say I believe the extension should be retained. I take no position as to which proposal is better. Dmehus (talk) 23:18, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Notes:
 * 1) This proposal may be closed by an ideally uninvolved Meta bureaucrat and effected technically by a steward (whether participating or not), generally after at least three (3) calendar days and certainly after at least 5-7 calendar days.
 * 2) Please remember all votes should express an argument with them, including, but not limited to, referring to the argument(s) expressed in the proposal(s) or which which have been made by other users.
 * 3) Either, but not all three, of proposals 1, 2, or 3 may pass.

Proposal 1: Move to patroller user group
Rationale: Patrollers and administrators are the two primary user groups on Meta Wiki that patrol, respond to, and otherwise handle, new edits and pages on this wiki.

Support

 * 1)  Yes, this was a magnificent decision to install this onto Miraheze. It makes reporting somewhat easier than normal. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:17, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Considering that I was the first to use this tool before anyone else can, apparently. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:19, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 1)   06:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC) ］ |

Oppose

 * 1) Allowing only users with increased user groups to merely submit reports (not handle), that goes against the entire purpose. That said, the suitability of this extension at all is questionable. Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Move to the patroller and autopatrolled user groups
Rationale: Patrollers and administrators are the two primary user groups on Meta Wiki that patrol, respond to, and otherwise handle, new edits and pages on this wiki. Additionally, autopatrolled users are trusted users on Meta Wiki who can be trusted with this additional user right and, if misused after being warned and/or cautioned, can be a reason for revoking the user group.

Support

 * 1)  I see no reason to restrict it to patrollers only, and autopatrolled is a group where only trusted users are in. Justarandomliberal (talk) 00:18, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)  This proposal seems to be the best compromise between users (who can misuse the tool) and patroller access only (who will be sad to restrict to only a few users) HeartsDo (Talk / Global / Wiki Creator) 05:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) Allowing only users with increased user groups to merely submit reports (not handle), that goes against the entire purpose. That said, the suitability of this extension at all is questionable. Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 3: Maintain status quo
Rationale: All users should be able to report problematic revisions. Downside of this, though, is that one's user privileges cannot be revoked, and blocking users after warnings on misuse seems heavy handed.

Support

 * 1)  If staff can help users gage what qualifies as a reportable rev (which is anything that compromises the wiki) then all users should be able to report. Afterall anyone can report by default (extension or not). Waldo (talk) 00:23, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)  I do not think two reports are enough to decide it is time to restrict this right to users in specific user groups. R4356th (talk) 07:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 3)  The two uses of it might have been incorrect but we could add guidance and help users. If there was a clear sign over numerous occasions, I might consider it.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  13:58, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 4)  per Rhinos Zppix (Meta &#124; Sysadmin &#124; talk to me) 14:03, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 5)  per R4356th and RhinosF1. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) I consider the "status quo" to be not having this extension, especially since it was installed only four days ago. Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) It seems to have been added without nearly a wide enough community discussion, based on a select few users and it being enabled without any community discussion at all. I certainly wasn't aware of it being enabled until I had seen this. Its suitability for Meta is also questionable as well, and I likely would have opposed it being added. A "report" system goes essentially in the opposite direction a community-driven wiki should go, both in not allowing the community to review such things (hiding them to sysops only, especially things that should not be hidden), and in treating sysops like an "aura of authority". In addition, there is not really a good answer as to who should be able to handle them as it wildly depends on the content of the report&mdash;how Miraheze has been doing it for the last 5 years was perfectly fine if not preferable over this extension.  Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments, for which I'm happy to correct a few points, which may have led to a misunderstanding on the Report extension's use case on Meta. First of all, extensions on Meta Wiki can be enabled with or without a discussion, depending, usually, on how significant or large the extension is. For example, we'd want to have to discussion to enable something like SocialProfile (which I'd oppose, likely strongly, by the way), and something like CommentStreams or WikiForum would also probably be good to have at least a longer discussion if not a formal community proposal. However, we do enable more minor or small extensions semi-frequently. Regarding the main concern of your argument, part of the confusion seems to stem from how this extension proposed to be used. Admittedly, when it was briefly discussed above, we didn't articulate clearly how it would be used, preferring to draft guidelines over the next month or two instead. However, that's been corrected with this proposal, and, indeed, it would only be used for reporting (a) blatant vandalism requiring deletion or other action by an administrator or (b) revision deletion. In terms of the latter, contrary to the Wikimedia projects, it has been standard practice on Miraheze to either (a) revision delete or (b) suppress revisions where it is either likely or known that a registered Miraheze user has edited while logged out, mainly to help safeguard users' privacy rights. As such, it would be highly inappropriate to report this on a noticeboard. In terms of the former, it would also be a spectacular waste of time and an exercise in bureaucracy to report blatant vandalism on a noticeboard, which, generally speaking, we aren't doing anyway, as this is most commonly reported through direct messages on Discord or IRC or through the channel on IRC. So, without the extension, it's not like we'd suddenly be making such reports on-wiki, so the transparency argument is misapplied in my view. Dmehus (talk) 01:53, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, however I think that is such a limited use case and that most uses would be misuses, that it would be better to not have it at all. In addition, like I said before, I also think a "report system" and allowing sysop to handle them completely misrepresents the role of a sysop. I also think that who should be responsible for handling them wildly varies based on the content of the so-called reports. Ultimately even for things such as editing while logged out it is simply better to keep things how they were. Naleksuh (talk) 05:18, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I disagree that a "report system" allowing administrators to handle them misrepresents the role of an administrator. If the tool is being used only for handling blatant vandalism and revision deletion, the latter of which can only be handled by administrators, why would it make sense to give Meta patrollers access to handle the reports? I mean, sure they could be permitted to handle the superfluous or incorrect reports, certainly, but then that's a stronger argument toward restricting use of the report tool to patrollers, autopatrolled users, or really any pertinent role that can be revoked because, as I said above and in my proposal, we can't simply revoke the  group. Some vandalism could be handled by rollbackers, yes, so perhaps that could be given access to handle at least some valid reports, and that can be added at some point in the future if there's both a need and a use case, with at least a brief discussion at Administrators' noticeboard. As to your latter point, I'm not sure whether you mean we should not revision delete/suppress the revisions of known or likely logged out users, or if you mean we should retain the current practice of reporting such things exclusively on Discord and IRC in private channels/direct messages, and certainly we would continue doing the latter regardless of the outcome of this extension's use on Meta Wiki. I just think it is worth trying this extension out. If we feel it's of limited to no utility in a few months' time, then, sure, let's have another community discussion to remove the extension at that time. Dmehus (talk) 05:39, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Waldo (talk) 23:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Why exactly do you oppose? This is a discussion, not a vote. Naleksuh (talk) 00:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I would concur with that, as I articulated in the reminder and explanatory notes following the background information on the proposal, all votes should be accompanied by an argument. The argument can very; arguments can be weaker or stronger. It is incumbent upon the closing bureaucrat to apply appropriate weight to all arguments made, as it's not simply about counting noses. Well, it can be, when the result is very clear. However, in particularly close results, votes without any arguments whatsoever can be discounted or even, where applicable and there is no indication of an implied argument, eliminated from consideration entirely, depending on the bureaucrat's assessment of the prevailing consensus. Dmehus (talk) 00:28, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It's both. You don't need to tell me what I already know. I want the extension to stay, which you can sense by my writing cues, such as me voting in favor for a different proposal while opposing this one. Here's your confirmation though since you somehow need it. Frankly not everyone has your length of free time. Waldo (talk) 02:03, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that's fine now then, yes. It was fair of to remind you to include an argument with votes, as we're not mind readers here, and others have observed in other discussions you including only a voting template and your signature. Indeed,  was actually planning on reminding you of this point on your user talk page the next time you voted without making an argument. So, with this gentle reminder sidebar discussion, he no longer likely needs to do that. As to your final sentence, there's no need to personalize your arguments by including extraneous, negative, and hurtful comments directed towards me. That's not very nice. :( Dmehus (talk) 02:11, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Well it wasn't extraneous since I don't always have time to use my usual brain power (which is used–among many other things–for making coherent points) and I find being quick and efficient to work fine for me. It was negative and I will agree to that, sorry I was just trying to make it known that some people need to make way for hobbies with the short time they are given and writing short is supposed to help with that (for me at least). I pretty much have to stop soon now so I hope this ties some loose ends. Also you know Zppix has left out arguments too? I thought it was fine because he did it. Waldo (talk) 02:29, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It absolutely was extraneous, as your passive aggressive and negative comment was directed towards and at me, not the discussion at hand. That's not okay, and cannot continue. As to your voting without an argument, it is okay as you didn't know at the time, but now you do know, so just keep that in mind for the future, okay? Related to that, if you do not have time to put together a thoughtful argument, then you do not need to rush to participate or vote in a discussion. Not everyone needs to participate in every discussion. It is best if you only participate once you have formulated and composed your argument. Regarding !vote, he actually did have an argument, in that he cited RhinosF1's argument. The only other one who did not have an argument, besides you, actually was, and I've just noticed that as well. I'm sure he will add to his vote in the next day or two. Hope that helps. Dmehus (talk) 02:45, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Zppix didn't add text besides his vote when voting for you for Steward. I believe Waldo meant that, not THIS particular vote. He may have done more than that in the past. Danner (talk) 05:54, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I suppose that's possible, yes, but at any rate, that's even less relevant as it wasn't in this discussion. Plus, I'm not sure about this apparent preference for citing Zppix as an example, too. Nonetheless, it's a minor point, and I've nonetheless articulated the explanation above to Waldo, so it's probably best not to beat this dead horse any longer. Dmehus (talk) 06:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * "I thought it was fine because he did it." I assume that means he was explaining why he thought it was fine to vote without the text because a staffer did it too. Not irrelevant because understanding people is pertinent to seeing from a point of view and having empathy. Explanations are key. Danner (talk) 06:12, 18 December 2020 (UTC)