Community noticeboard

Clarification - Formalizing Interwiki Requester Eligibility

 * With 2.5 weeks since opening the feedback request, unanimous support, and confirmation that this already exists on a separate policy page, I'm closing this single-issue feedback request and adding the appropriate language to the relevant page.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 14:42, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Per RfC Policy, I'm opening this single-issue Feedback Request on the CN to formally update the Interwiki Policy page and add the already-in-use eligibility requirements to request addition of a new interwiki entry.

Proposal 1: Codifying Eligibility for Interwiki Requests
Add the following eligibility criteria to the Additions section of the Interwiki policy page:

A user must meet one of the following criteria to submit Interwiki addition/removal requests: *Have the Bureaucrat role (or equivalent) on the wiki for which the request is submitted *Have public written permission from a Bureaucrat on the wiki (for instance, on a user talk page) to submit interwiki requests *Have authorization to make the request via local policy (e.g. a wiki establishes a local policy authorizing administrators on the wiki to make interwiki requests) *Have community consensus on specific additions/removals, e.g. by poll or discussion on the wiki for which the request is submitted

Rationale: This is already the current procedure followed by those with IW access and seeks to make it publicly available. Failure of this vote will not change eligibility criteria, but community assent is needed before any amendment of policy pages. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 18:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  as proposer --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 18:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  This offer can be prevented by Discord or IRC or fraud/informality on noticeboards. I support you most strongly. It is useful to apply.  Hey Türkiye  Message? 11:27, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  This is already done as a matter of custom. --1108-Kiju /Talk  11:34, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 4)  I think that it is fair for bureaucrats to make these decisions. I take this opportunity to nevertheless re-iterate my opposition to the group of interwiki administrator and instead allowing bureaucrats to do this themselves. --DeeM28 (talk) 14:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 5)  This is currently the status quo. Although, it is nowhere in the interwiki page.--   Joseph  TB  CT  CA   05:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 6) . It's time to put what we do into actual policy/writing. Globe - (Talk • Contributions • CA) 16:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Comments
It was helpfully pointed out by Agent Isai in a side conversation that these criteria already exist on the Interwiki administrators page, identically though indirectly, as follows:

Global interwiki administrators should not add or alter interwiki prefixes on wikis where they do not hold bureaucrat rights, unless local bureaucrats or the local community requests it, or where they have otherwise been provided with a local authorization, ratified by a local bureaucrat, to add interwiki prefixes on a discretionary basis.

Given that pre-existing basis, if Stewards feel this is sufficient I suggest they close this Feedback Request as invalid/unnecessary and integrate the proposed changes into the Interwiki page if deemed adequately phrased. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:37, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * NotAracham, would you be interested in modifying this proposal to state that one must have a bureaucrat's authorization to make such requests, or there must be a local policy in place delegating this responsibility to community members? I think it's way to bureaucratic to require a bureaucrat's approval just to add an interwiki prefix. I think any trusted  or established editor would do. As well, it's already a requirement to be a bureaucrat, or have the assent of a bureaucrat, to be elected as a local interwiki administrator. Dmehus (talk) 19:53, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If there's a local policy which covers delegation of duties, that's fine in my view. My goal isn't to write new policy beyond already established norms in this case, and reading through the existing language on the Interwiki administrators page, this piece of language: 'otherwise provided with local authorization' appears to cover the instance you describe.
 * Per discussion w/ @Raidarr on discord, I'll tweak to match and notify existing FR voters accordingly. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 21:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @HeyTürkiye, @1108-Kiju, @DeeM28, providing a courtesy notification that proposal language has had minor amendments to allow for local policies to authorize other roles to request interwiki additions/removals. This was deemed necessary to be fully aligned with the policy codified on the Interwiki administrators page.
 * Please review and update your vote if no longer supported. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 21:15, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Marked as Closed on a Daily Basis
For the past week, every time that I access my specific wiki on MediaWiki Ash and Illusions Wiki, I've received a notice that the Wiki has been marked as closed due to a lack of edits and/or log actions.

I've continued to do updates to the wiki (in fact a number were done yesterday), but when I accessed it again today it was marked for closure. I've continued to remove the closer mark on the Special:ManageWiki page, however it continues to return. Is there a way to remove this permanently and/or stop this from occurring daily? Daemhain Wolf (talk) 02:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I would advise you to research carefully when changing ManageWiki settings you're not sure of. On top of wiki permissions being a bit of a mess, you set  to 1 which meant that Special:RecentChanges/the   table could not hold any records over 1 second ago and because ManageWiki uses those records to assess inactivity, it found no 'recent changes' and kept reclosing the wiki. I have reset the settings and manually rebuilt the recent changes table but please do be careful in the future.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 03:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the help Isai! I'm not even sure how I did this, but I'll be a lot more careful going forwards! Daemhain Wolf (talk) 21:17, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Import question
Do I need an administrator to import a template for me? I request a few quote templates to be added to collegium.miraheze.org Template:Quote --Collectit (talk) 01:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If you tell us which templates to add to your wiki, the administrator @Collectit. will add them. You can also add templates yourself.  However, if you want to import a template from another wiki (Fandom, etc.), you can import it from Export. If I have not helped you with this comment, please explain in detail what you want and we can help you better. The administrators will contact you.  Hey Türkiye  Message? 08:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I was trying to use quotes in my article, to quote text. It seems I have to use a template to do that. How do I do that? Collectit (talk) 15:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You can do it by creating the citation template or by copying the citation template from the English Wikipedia. @Collectit. (I wouldn't take too much of your copying, either.) -- Hey Türkiye Message? 16:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd note that "copying" the template wouldn't be in compliance with copyright, you would have to use Special:Export and then Special:Import on your Miraheze wiki in order to comply with attribution requirements. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 06:01, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Copy it to where? Collectit (talk) 06:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * , hi! I went to your wiki and checked the RecentChanges special page, and saw what article you were looking for. Firstly, to answer your question literally, you are an admin on that same wiki you founded, so you can import templates from elsewhere as Reception suggested. You can check what accounts are administrator on your wiki by going to your wiki's "Special:ListAdmins" page, which for you is at mh:collegium:Special:ListAdmins.  To do that, you can go to your wiki and type "Special:Import" (as Reception said), which will lead you to mh:collegium:Special:Import. There are two options there: you can upload a file that contains data regarding the wiki pages you're importing, or you can tell Miraheze servers to contact a certain wiki website and download that wiki's pages to your wiki.  The second is easier, so, you can scroll down to the "" section, select   as your "Source wiki", type   in the "Source page" text field, and check the first two checkboxes. You may give a comment as to why you feel the need for it, if you want it to be recorded in your wiki's logs (mh:collegium:Special:Log/import), and then you click the big blue "" button.  If that fails, you can do the first method. Go to wikipedia:Special:Export and type "Template:Quote" in the "" text box. Leave the first checkbox unchecked (to follow copyright law about attributing past authors), while having the latter two boxes checked. Then click "Submit" and go back to your wiki's Special:Import page, upload it, type "wikipedia:" for interwiki prefix, and click "Upload file".   But, I saw in the mh:collegium:Respect article you were working on. Please note that the syntax for Wikipedia's Quote template is example text, not  . — MLastCelebration  (talk) 12:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's a lot of information for me to learn and try out. You gave a very good guide, it seems. Collectit (talk) 17:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

For future reference, please ask questions on the Community noticeboard, not the Meta-Wiki Admins noticeboard. That noticeboard is only for questions to admins on this wiki, not for asking for help. Agent Isai Talk to me! 17:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oh sorry about that. Collectit (talk) 21:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Cannot verify site in Google search console
How long does it usually take for the google search token to be noticed when added to the SEO section of "Manage this wiki's additional settings"? I thought if the token was added, and Google search console looks for the token, it would find it straight away.

I opted for "Domain" in the Google Search Console, generated the txt file (token) and added it to the SEO section on my site. Google says uing the "Domain" option requires DNS configuration from my Domain Name Provider, but I can't do this because the Doamin Name points to Miraheze's Name Servers. Google doesn't provide information for this process for users of wikifarms. I am attempting this for my newly created domain name - theenglishlakes.uk - without adding the https://

Anyway, I just get an error every time I try and verify: Verification method: Domain name provider

Failure reason: '''We couldn't find your verification token in your domain's TXT records. Sometimes DNS changes can take a while to appear. Please wait a few hours, then reopen your property in Search Console. If verification fails again, try adding a different DNS TXT record.'''

I've had the same error for two days. What am I doing wrong, or does it take more time? A steer in the right direction would be most appreciated. 22:28, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorted. I didn't include the token correctly. How do I go about requesting a Sitemap? 10:44, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This guide I wrote may be helpful for you, it covers all aspects you'll need to know for this, including sitemaps.
 * WikiSEO_-_Improving_Search_Ranking
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 20:52, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @NotAracham Thank you for your assistance. If I had known this article existed I would have known exactly what to do. It is very informative and helped immensely, very much appreciated. This essay should have more visibility on Meta.
 * I already have WikiSEO installed but haven't used it - to be honest I don't really know how to use it. I would probably only use "keywords". Can they be included anywhere on the page? 07:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Fun fact, the 'SEO' on that article is high enough that it's usually in the top google results for WikiSEO, especially when combined with the word 'Help' or 'Miraheze'. :D
 * I do eventually planning on moving it to a proper help namespace once I have additional documentation written out to make a broader 'new admin' guide, but that's a project that's been on backburner for ages.
 * I haven't used the keywords function much myself, but the WikiSEO main documentation has some helpful stuff there around keyword functions. Best of luck!
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Geogebra
What is the geogebra extension used for? I suppose that it's used for encoding images with text. If yes, it would be really useful as my wiki needs a lot of images. ClassicalGames (talk) 07:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I found this page: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GeoGebra

But it almost takes forever to load. Could you copy the contents into the above user's talk page? ColorfulGalaxy (talk) 11:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Some Image Files Suddenly Not Loading
Suddenly this afternoon, some (but not all) images that have been loaded onto my wiki are not loading.

As an example, when I click on the actual file image I get a:


 * File not found


 * Although this PHP script (/w/img_auth.php) exists, the file requested for output (mwstore://miraheze-swift/local-public/c/cf/Marric-alaga-01.png) does not.

Is this happening to others? and is the a return of one of the servers going like what happened several months ago? — Mitchell Gore (talk) 18:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Why my logo does not appear?
Hi, I have put a logo on my wiki but the logo does not appear on the main page (and on all the pages there), let me know if I am using this page wrong (If this is misspelled it is because I used translator). - Un random
 * A link to your wiki would be helpful LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 02:25, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Wiki: https://wikique.miraheze.org/wiki/Especial:ManageWiki/settings#mw-section-styling
 * Image Location: https://static.miraheze.org/wikiquewiki/b/b5/Wiki_que.png
 * Latest MediaWiki update with skin that does not display logo (Última actualización de MediaWiki con skin que no muestra el logo) https://wikique.miraheze.org/wiki/Especial:ManageWiki/extensions#mw-section-skins - PercyUK (talk) 06:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * On Main Page, I see a different image - Logo.png instead of Wiki_que.png
 * Image Location https://static.miraheze.org/wikiquewiki/c/c9/Logo.png
 * Main Page https://wikique.miraheze.org/wiki/Página_principal
 * --- Imamy (talk) 15:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Use BounceHandler to un-confirm e-mail addresses in error
Can Extension:BounceHandler be installed on Miraheze to un-confirm e-mail addresses in error? 沈澄心 (talk) 05:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Help getting hlist and navboxes working correctly
I'm not a bureaucrat or admin of this wiki (that'd be Robkelk), so I hope it's okay that I'm asking for help here – just don't want anyone else to get a headache on my behalf.

We're having issues with and templates that call it, like navboxes, on Poser and Daz Free Resources Wiki. The template creates vertical bulleted lists rather than horizontal ones. I think the main issue is that TemplateStyles isn't enabled, and we're missing the styles.css for the hlist template, but I'm not very familiar with the inner workings of templates, so I'm not sure if I'm overlooking anything else. Is there someone who's more familiar with templates who could help out? Radiiant (talk) 17:14, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The wiki's URL is poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org – I tried to add a link in my original post, but Miraheze wanted me to enter a CAPTCHA that wouldn't show up, so adding it in a follow-up comment. Radiiant (talk) 17:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you use Discord? Someone at the support channel may have the solution.  Discord | #support | Miraheze
 * --- Imamy (talk) 14:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Recruitment/Vacancies
I know that SRE has been recruiting for new members for some time now, but I'm also of the opinion that new membership is needed in the community-related roles as well. We've already lost Radiarr, (partially?) lost OrangeStar, and now appear to be loosing Universal Omega as well (Special:Diff/337769). And apparently Agent has just resigned from Trust and Safety. While it was before my return to the project, I noticed that John and Southparkfan have also resigned from their respective roles. As a result the community definitely has several vacancies that should be filled, as we don't want to be in a situation where the project itself is growing faster than its volunteer base. So I would like to ask the community if there are any roles that it (collective) feels I could fulfill? In evaluating my experience feel free to refer to my previous activity pre-2020 as well. I'd like to do something to make sure that Miraheze continues to grow and prosper, though I'm not entirely certain as to what role(s) the community would feel I'd be best suited for. – AmandaCath  ( talk ) 23:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * To clarify, Agent has filed intent to resign from all roles, as has Universal Omega.
 * As for your primary question, do you have Discord or IRC? It might be better to converse that way. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I used to have IRC, though I don't anymore at least in part due to the network switch from Freenode (I could probably get it back though). I just thought that more people would be likely to visit/watch this page than the IRC channel or logs, and this page allows discussions even when I'm not actively monitoring them. – AmandaCath  ( talk ) 23:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If it's alright, IRC is preferred. If not, we can have the discussion here, though. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:37, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Just (re)joined IRC. I'll have a couple hours tonight before I need to sign off. – AmandaCath  ( talk ) 23:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * OS is back. I don't know how likely it is to be approved given what happened, but I've filed to rejoin SRE as a MediaWiki Engineer. OrangeStar (talk) 16:02, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Invite Community to take part in current open requests
Can we put out a global message for review of current open requests. I am only aware of these 3: I'd like to see a 24 hour notice to invite Mirahezians to Meta. Per count, there are 6,847 wikis. Votes come from the same usual participants (less then 20).
 * Requests for global permissions
 * Requests for Comment/Meta usergroups reform
 * Requests for Comment/Changes to wiki creators (2)‎

Perhaps a message such as:

For your consideration, please review open requests (1) (2) (3)‎

I've also added a glossary at the bottom of each request to give context

--- Imamy (talk) 14:33, 9 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Agent was the only person with access to make central notices. I guess SRE could also create them but I don't know how likely that is to happen. OrangeStar (talk) 15:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Typically, CentralNotices never go out for requests for comment or permissions because people find them annoying unless said RfX is super important. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 05:32, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. Having a banner doesn't feel good.  But there is almost never any way to draw anyone to RfCs.  RfCs are very hard to find and hard to identify and confusing to read.
 * However, lately, we have not had any types of banners in a while so I don't think that posting one would be offensive.
 * The way I see it, if they were posted at scheduled times, people will probably look forward to them. If banners were put out quarterly or every 2 months  for a 24 hour period where there is an overlap of the last day of the month and the first day of the next month, then anyone who'd like to find the RfC will probably check in on the night of one day, and the morning of the other.
 * RfC banners should be minimally worded. over time probably the banners will get more and more cryptic and discrete, much like leaving a note on the table that one can only find when one goes looking for it.
 * Imamy (talk) 07:01, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest an alternate: add a notice on the meta main page. Maybe below the header so it's noticeable with just a one-liner for each of the open RfC's to give a title and link to each. It would not intrude on all wikis like a global banner, would be unobtrusive, but also easy to find. It could be hidden when there are no open RFC's. &mdash;Jph2 (talk) 14:26, 10 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I think adding a mini banner will work, but on Meta there is already a link to Request for Comment. We can add RfCs links to the current sidebar.  Having both banner and sidebar will definitely be better than just one or the other.  I think RfCs links could be tucked under Main Page Volunteers/Contribute subpages.  I'm not sure why Community noticeboard doesn't have a direct link on the Main Page - eg "volunteer community support" eg "Community-centric wiki farm" eg "100% community-supported".  Believe or not, I only just actually found it this week.  I posted to Discord Miraheze and IRC/LC Miraheze before I even posted to Community noticeboard.  Should at least be listed under Chat with Us even though not definitionally correct.  It is on Help center subpage but I thought the section was identical to the Chat with Us.  Now that I'm aware, I actually know what to look for.
 * Requests for Comment   GP    1    2‎
 * And if there are no open RfCs, the RfC links would be absent.
 * Global Permissions is not an RfC but if it can be placed with RfCs that would simplify navigation.
 * ~ Imamy (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

IRC Group Contacts: Part 2
Yes, this again.

With UO leaving, we are now down to only one de-facto Group Contact,. While UO still has access (I will soon talk with someone on Libera about this if no-one does it before me), I think we can pretty safely assume they won't be doing any GC stuff anymore.

We should change this soon lest we commit the same mistake as with John back when they left the project. I think we should appoint at least another one, but ideally I would like for there to also be a third one.

Reason for there being a third one is because Reception resigning is a very real possibility in my opinion. If they leave and we only appoint one additional person, it will be the same thing again. Therefore, appointing a third GC accounts for this happening. Even if they don't leave, it's not like there's a hard limit on how many we can have.

Since planning for disasters is for uncool people, we unfortunately still do not have a policy for these situations. Therefore, I propose that this crisis be dealt with the same way we did back when Reception, and  requested GC: a Requests for permissions-style thread on the Community Noticeboard, closed by a Steward.

Those willing to become a GC, click the add topic button. OrangeStar (talk) 15:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)


 * What is Group Contact? Imamy (talk) 05:03, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Universal Omega is staying on as a Group Contact, per my discussion with him, and my recommendation to him, last night. We also still have Reception123 and NDKilla as a backup Group Contact. Those are on file with Libera.Chat. :) Dmehus (talk) 05:07, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't remember requesting Group Contact ever. Either way, Universal Omega is still a Board member and the only people who can get a GC removed are other GCs or legal representatives for projects. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 05:31, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Good points, Agent Isai. Also, regarding OrangeStar's speculation that Reception123 may step down, while we don't want to presume or speculate this may occur, I would point out that should something like that happen, I would think the Miraheze Limited Board of Directors would plan for an orderly wind-down of Miraheze operations and a reasonably orderly transition of customer wikis to other platforms/services. Dmehus (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. It would be most prudent, thoughtful, and smart for the Board of Directors to plan a wind-down of Miraheze as the current situation is untenable. I do not see the farm surviving past 3-6 months in its current state and I would exhort wikis to begin looking into alternatives like . Agent Isai  Talk to me! 05:45, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Completely agree. Three months would be preferable for me. Dmehus (talk) 06:03, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Not only that, but given the current situation, I think it would be prudent and in keeping with directors' fiduciary responsibilities to cease collection of donations from users, in my view. Stewards, in consultation with SRE should consider suspending wiki requests and wiki creations, too. Dmehus (talk) 06:05, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe it's too early to consider Miraheze a lost cause. The Board has considered a plan to allow Raidarr back onto Miraheze if he wishes, and the severe shortage in volunteers can be fixed by placing more volunteers in community and technical positions. If Miraheze does end up shutting down, however, I would second moving to another wiki farm, probably WikiTide. Tali64³ (talk) 16:54, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * What's the difference between WikiTide and WikiForge? --Rob Kam (talk) 20:06, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * WikiTide will be a free version, while WikiForge will be a premium subscription offering. I don't believe WikiForge will be expensive, but it may offer access to different or custom extensions, premium/priority support offerings, potentially premium servers, and that sort of thing. Dmehus (talk) 23:54, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That is just one issue. The other issue is a lack of volunteers, both technical and community but especially technical. Of the remaining technical volunteers who are not on a wikibreak, none are considered 'active' as to allow Miraheze to function as a going concern. Dmehus (talk) 23:56, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

What's going on?
This wiki farm feels like it's going to collapse at any minute. I'm concerned because I'm relying on this site to host my project, and while it's slow going I'd still like to continue.

Would the staff still active please summarise what's going on to the regular users of this farm? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's worried. Bonbonyoshi (talk) 17:39, 10 June 2023 (UTC)


 * For that matter, who is still on staff? (CVT, Steward, Board, etc.) I don't want to end up assuming that any request is still In Progress after a person who said they'd work on it later resigned. --Robkelk (talk) 21:24, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * CVT is down to one Global Sysop and three Global Rollbackers, Void and Reception are the two Stewards remaining, and so far Agent has been the only resignation from SRE. The board still has two directors, Void and Owen. OrangeStar (talk) 07:51, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The worrying thing is that no one knows what will happen. The whole of Miraheze hangs in the balance of a few volunteers. Historically, some volunteers left because of "differences of opinion". Even the co-founder John attempted to put things right at a time when Miraheze was dealing with a lot of problem users and/or volunteers. When I joined in 2016, Miraheze was a much smaller, but nicer community prior to incorporation status. Most of those people don't seem to be around any more. What happened to Southparkfan, NDKilla, and now Reception123, who seems to have taken a break, coincidentally at a time when this latest bout of disagreements/resignations/ban have taken place?
 * Those in higher volunteer positions, including board members (what's left anyway out of 9 possible seats), should step up and tell us, personally, what the heck is going on in an official statement to keep us all in the loop with regards to Miraheze's current stability and future. Differences need to be resolved. People need to stop bitching all the time, and get on with business, because it this does not happen, Miraheze will fall without the backbone of volunteers that have kept it going since 2015. People need to be put at ease, especially as there are wikis where a great deal of work have gone into them. 16:15, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  Miraheze is saving me major headaches providing a great Mediawiki hosting service. I'm only doing my (three) wikis as a hobby and can't afford to pay for premium hosting (£100 per wiki?), and no longer have the patience to attempt to get Mediawiki functioning on shared hosting. Without digging through Discord all the resignations of people with the technical know-how come totally out of the blue. Please can we have a summary of what's going on from an outsiders point of view. --Rob Kam (talk) 19:47, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Rob Kam. I am worried about this thing too. I can't even sleep last night. I don't want Miraheze to be shut down. I host a large amount of important content in it. I want to keep Miraheze alive.

OrangeStar's statement
Very well. Keep in mind this is just my point of view. Former Steward Raidarr was placed by Trust and Safety under three restrictions: To complete a data protection training program, to refrain from discussing anything about Naleksuh, and another one I don't remember (it may have been only two restrictions). It appears these restrictions were broken, as Raidarr was banned two days ago by Trust and Safety. Prior to this, Owen, on his official capacity as a Trust and Safety member, was seen giving himself suppression and checkuser rights to review usage of these rights. Prior to his banning, things were already getting hot because of an RfC by Universal Omega calling for a global ban of Naleksuh: Requests for Comment/Global ban for Naleksuh. The board has discussed Trust and Safety's actions on a recent emergency meeting, with now-former director Universal Omega calling for Miraheze's dissolution: Board/Policies/20230607-Minutes. Steward and SRE member Agent Isai have resigned, Universal Omega, who held Global Sysop has also cut ties with Miraheze, as well as probably other volunteers who held other roles. Whether or not this farm will collapse and thus should move your wiki somewhere else is something everyone will have to decide for themselves. OrangeStar (talk) 20:03, 10 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Per on Raidarr's talk, that other restriction concerned the use of CheckUser and Oversight. --Routhwick (talk) 21:53, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The third was a general advisory to Miraheze about the introduction of data protection training becoming a requirement to hold/keep NDA access. See 3.1 of the linked minutes above. -- Void  Whispers 21:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * People are calling for Miraheze's dissolution over a single T&S decision? Regardless of whether you think T&S was right or not, that is absolutely ridiculous. I respect the decision of volunteers to leave for personal reasons, but if you're going to take your ball and go home, don't let the door hit you on the way out. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 03:18, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The framing in the meeting minutes was a bit confusing, the call for dissolution wasn't specifically instigated by only a single T&S request (as you might expect with several concurrent resignations) but isn't worth rehashing here. I would direct you to Void's statement below on the matter.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 04:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I concur, the meeting meetings are a bit strange. No one called for Miraheze's dissolution directly over the Trust and Safety action, the discussion of dissolution was prompted by the fact that some volunteers who held multiple hats (considered 'core' volunteers) had resigned and more had pledged to resign thus probably causing a severe slowdown in time to action requests or instability without their aid. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Password Recovery
Hello, how to change an account password (I remember the username but not the password, I had not put an email...). I'm looking for a way to regain access to my account! 2A01:CB0C:504:4900:FC00:AB89:7E7A:D695 20:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)


 * There's no way to recover it unfortunately. You'll have to create a new one. OrangeStar (talk) 20:10, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Except that this account is the creator account of a wiki...
 * ValRAIMOND1 (talk) 20:12, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If you can't recovery that creator account
 * then you can use a different account to access the wiki
 * if someone higher up is active, ask them to give you rights
 * if it's not active, try holding an election to regain rights
 * I don't know much about elections. Perhaps someone can assist with those details. Imamy (talk) 21:18, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks for the reply!
 * ValRAIMOND1 (talk) 04:09, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Reset lost credentials — in other words, either "don't forget the password" or "Set an enail". &mdash; revi  05:02, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Say something.
Where have the staff gone? It's been several days and not one staff member has made any statements but are clearly editing on WikiTide and have previously "encouraged" users to migrate, despite from what I'm seeing WikiTide having no differences to Miraheze except name and association with WikiForge, which I thought Miraheze was going to be partnering with.

This is not my main account (I made this second one to keep my project seperate and nothing more) and I've been on Miraheze since 2021. I was sick of Fandom and its updates. I thought I could put my faith and trust into names like Agent Isai, Reception123 and Raidarr. I thought you knew what you were doing. Now seemingly you and the rest of the staff have left the entire Miraheze brand and community on hold.

I've never been in much of a responsible role, but this is NOT how staff react to a situation like this. You don't just go and hide on a new wiki farm, deem the old one a failure, and say nothing here. We may all have our different projects and communities but we all rely on you to know what's going on and to keep the place stable! We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We don't know why you're acting like this. We don't know what to do.

Just to remind you, nearly 7,000 wikis rely on this site. If you don't say something, even suggest you're still here and trying to make a statement, that's a lot of people you're ditching. If there's nothing in a few days I'm requesting my wiki to be closed and I don't think it'll be WikiTide I host it on instead.

Yours sincerely, somebody who actually donated to this site. Bonbonyoshi (talk) 21:56, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * There's been a fair amount of discussion on this topic on the Miraheze Discord which you could go check. As I understand it, the TL;DR boils down to some folks disagreed with a user ban by Trust & Safety and they have resigned their volunteer roles with Miraheze. Some (or maybe all) have moved over to WT. In any case, those folks won't be doing anything on Miraheze now. The volunteer staff still with Miraheze are stretched a little bit at the moment, so some requests may take a little longer, but Miraheze is still up and running.

If you have a specific concern/question, perhaps you could address it to SRE, Stewards, or in the support channel on Discord.

As for "saying something", please see the #notices channel on the Discord. I feel your pain as I only recently joined the Discord, specifically because of concern around the current status of things. But I'd also caution against feeling the sky is falling. &mdash;Jph2 (talk) 22:25, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see at least something is being discussed, and I apologise for getting heated up, but I think something should have been stated as a site notice, not everyone is on that server.
 * The above comments they've made about 'Miraheze is not going to last 6 months, move to WikiTide but only an advisory, I agree, I agree, I agree' is what concerns me the most. Those comments, saying "advisory" or not, are what made me think the place was going to collapse. For people as high ranking as them to say things like that, I'm shocked. Bonbonyoshi (talk) 22:38, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the lack of official communication on the matter. Jph2 summed up the situation quite well, but I want to say from an official position, that realistically the only major effects on Miraheze is that we have fewer volunteers. This means it will be slower to get things done, and we may have to evaluate whether or not we can still meet our commitment of providing the latest MediaWiki version. We will be reaching out to the community to try and fill out some roles. Until then though, I would like to remind everyone of the existence of Contributing and Miraheze Vacancies as points of getting started. -- Void  Whispers 00:51, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Void Thanks for the update. Myself, like others, do not use Discord and have been reliant upon senior volunteers, like yourself, to provide us with information, which until now has been somewhat lacking. We don’t necessarily need to know the details of what happened. We would, however, find it useful to know where Miraheze currently stands and its long-term viability as a platform for us to keep working on our wikis. This you have briefly mentioned, so thanks again.
 * I was surprised to see a few notable volunteers wash their hands of Miraheze, especially as they have all put so much effort into making it work. May I suggest that from this pivotal point onwards, instead of looking at what has happened of late, we look at what needs to be done to make improvements and ensure this does not happened again. Please keep us informed of anything that might give us cause for concern in the future. Much appreciated. 07:54, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It's worth noting -- most of the people that could have placed a site notice or responded to you were part of the wave of resignations and thus no longer on the platform to reply. I personally am volunteering on both platforms and plan to continue doing so as long as feasible, however I didn't feel it was my place to speak on this point as this isn't a matter I could be credibly perceived as objective.
 * Thank you to Void, Jph2 and OrangeStar for their concise summary, I echo their sentiments and wish for the success of both projects.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 04:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I do want to apologise for the lack of on-wiki statement. As stated above, the drama was contained to Discord almost entirely and it was thought to be most prudent to leave it there. Jph2 sums it up pretty well, Trust and Safety globally banned a user and we were all in deep disagreement as we thought the action was too blunt for the violation of the restriction (specifically, a one-way interaction ban between them and another user) which occurred and additionally, we believed that the user shouldn't have been subjected to the restriction implemented. The user who was banned by Trust and Safety was always the most diplomatic, rational, and charismatic out of all of us so them being banned for a restriction that was placed on them for a rather mild use of words during a moment of lapse of judgement was rather blunt, especially since the user who was on the other side of the IBAN had done worse but was somehow the victim in all. T&S' appeals process is rather rigid and while T&S has since offered the user in question the ability to return if they complete certain training (not connected to the core reason why they were banned), trust in them has eroded for their initial action. Anyhow, yes, many volunteers have moved to another abode. Miraheze won't collapse over night, if it were to wind down, it would take months. Thankfully, the last fundraiser was a moderate success so Miraheze have enough funds to keep going until the end of the year. As stated above, volunteers leaving means requests will take more time to get done but hosting in general should not be disrupted unless monetary issues appear. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * "T&S has since offered the user in question the ability to return if they complete certain training (not connected to the core reason why they were banned)" Can you elaborate how Data Protection training is not connected to misuse/poor handling of personal informational? It's seems like a 1:1 relationship to me and thus this point is not correct. The sanction was escalated very much in a similar way to a bail/parole violation would work. A user did something that was bad (2 things actually), but a ban was not in the interests of the community at the time - reform was. So T&S placed restrictions to prevent further misconduct and limit future damage until appropriate opportunity for reform and training was in place to protect the company and the community from further harm. The user refused to abide by the restrictions and then deliberately broke them - therefore escalated action in a similar way to parole violations. You have missed major context to the situation that I know you are fully aware of so I am disappointed that you are intentionally sharing misinformation around this given you were involved in the discussions and had the opportunity to review the evidence. Owen (Miraheze) (talk) 06:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, now this is getting even more confusing. So trusted staff are now deliberately twisting situations?? I don't know who's right, but either one of you has to be wrong and openly lying to the community.
 * And what do we do? Why are all of the staff moving to WikiTide and what are we going to do on Miraheze? Is this place really unsaveable that you all have to leave for it?
 * What's the difference? Is it going to be the same as Miraheze just with a different name, and if so why don't you stay here and try to help and improve that? Surely this place can't be that unstable? You should have never linked and suggested moving in the first place because, I don't care if it said 'precautionary' you said Miraheze will not last six months, move to WikiTide. I agree. I agree. Agreed. You mentioned turning off donations. You said you were giving the whole site a few months. This is not what staff of a wiki say in front of their users.
 * You've gotten this all the wrong way around. You've been saying the private, 'people should not know' things on the wiki, and things people should know on Discord where not everyone can see it. Bonbonyoshi (talk) 08:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bonbonyoshi Sometimes people just disagree and the only amicable way is to part ways. Wikitide and Wikiforge will most likely work to a slightly different model, with minor differences in its policies. It might also be more selective on the wikis it creates. Other than that I do not know at this stage. Miraheze is not dead and can be “saved” (for want of a better expression) with the right people to help move it in the right direction. It’s leadership - @Void and @Owen (Miraheze) - needs to be positive and drive the community forward positively. It has certainly become a lot more political since it’s inception, and maybe this is just one of the reasons why there are differences of opinion. There is no point in deceiving the community. If there is a real sense it could collapse, this needs to be identified early on so people can make plans. Regarding Discord, I personally don’t use it, but there’s nothing stopping anyone from creating an account and learning what’s happening there. 09:04, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Additionally, for those that don't want to create accounts everywhere: Conversations on Discord are logged publicly on the IRC side, so you can read the logs online in your browser. Here are the logs for #miraheze and here are the logs for #miraheze-offtopic, which also hosted some conversations related to this. OrangeStar (talk) 12:02, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the link! IRC is so much easier to read than Discord. --- Imamy (talk) 14:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

As long as people in a position to know are answering questions... I keep seeing an ambiguous phrase: "certain training". Exactly what training is being required here? Are we looking at a full-week instructor-led classroom session with an exam that must be passed for completion, or a two-hour at-desk online session with a refresher quiz that doesn't need to be passed, or something in between? (I have been on both types of data-protection courses in my career.) Is this something that somebody decided was a good idea or is this a legal requirement? Who is paying for the training, the volunteer or Miraheze? --Robkelk (talk) 11:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * As for why this being introduced, I obviously don't know why it was imposed on Raidarr, but Owen also wants other NDA holders to do this training as well. Owen mentioned it at Board/Policies/20230607-Minutes, and stated (3.3 in the minutes) that "both proposals (T&S auditing CU and suppression usage, and mandatory data protection training) are mandatory under Information Commissioner’s Office advice – we need to ensure we train people appropriate and audit their access and usage of personal information inline with the Data Protection Act 2018." OrangeStar (talk) 11:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Can we start the data protection training already? Because everyone I've talked to so far at has been entirely disinterested in data protection, and has treated this as a personnel issue.  I keep hearing that there has been misuse of PII at the heart of this matter, but no one will say what exactly happened.  All remaining members of the board told me that it can't be discussed due to NDA.  But this runs entirely counter to the letter and the spirit of the Data Protection Act.  Because there was a data breach of PII, the onus is on Miraheze to disclose it so that that users can take appropriate action to protect themselves.  Depending on the severity, it should also be reported to the ICO.  And that 72 hour deadline for reporting has long passed.  Right now, I do not know how insecure I am, because Miraheze staff have repeatedly refused to tell me, as well as ignored requests for an incident report. —Labster (talk) 03:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Training was at the forefront of this moving forward - it was made mandatory for Raidarr who refused it and chose to resign as a Steward than do the training, and it was proposed to the Board to make it mandatory which was disagreed with by a former Director who chose to table a dissolution motion and resign than accept we required this training. There was no public data breach or any suspicion that data was mishandled in a way that created a high risk to anyone. As it was unauthorised access and was heavily localised to a small subset of identifiable users, there is no duty to ICO. Further there are no actions for general members of the community to take as it was localized and those affected no longer participate on Miraheze. Anyone affected has been contacted in line with the law. Owen (Miraheze) (talk) 05:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Change url
Hello, how to change the url name, like for example just the subdomains... My wiki: dico.miraheze.org I would now like it to have this url: astro.miraheze.org Cordialy ValRAIMOND1 (talk) 19:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)