Meta:Administrators' noticeboard

Request for interface messages MediaWiki:nstab-tech and MediaWiki:nstab-tech/ja
Request...create this pages:

MediaWiki:nstab-tech:Tech

MediaWiki:nstab-tech/ja:ワザ

--Waki285 (talk) 00:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Firstly, please note that I have procedurally moved this discussion and question from MediaWiki talk:Nstab-tech for a couple reasons. One, that is an orphaned talk page. Two, since talk pages aren't monitored regularly, the noticeboards are where most discussions should occur. Secondly, I'm not familiar with these interface messages. What would be the purpose of these? Dmehus (talk) 00:40, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * After looking into this a bit further, I realized that the Tech: namespace already displays "Tech" in the subject page's tab name, so I'm going to say that MediaWiki:nstab-tech is ❌. Regarding MediaWiki:nstab-tech/ja, that can be done. Normally, interface message translations are done through translatewiki.net; however, in this case, it does seem to make sense to translate this locally. When I double-checked the translation of ワザ using Google Translate, it returned "Waza". So, I am going to reach out to (Pine/Matsu), a Meta patroller, to confirm that this is the correct Japanese translation for the English word "Tech"., can you confirm and/or comment? Dmehus (talk) 01:20, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It can also be translated as technical information.--松•Matsu (talk) 05:58, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you. What do you think would be the best Japanese character to use for  to appear in the page name for Tech: namespace? Dmehus (talk) 06:14, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for Marking Discord/Ops for Translation
Hello, could a translation administrator (or administrator) please mark Discord/Ops for translation? Thank you very much. R4356th (talk) 11:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC)


 * HeartsDo (Talk || Global || Wiki Creator) 11:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ HeartsDo (Talk || Global || Wiki Creator) 11:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, . R4356th (talk) 12:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for Marking Discord/Verification/Intro for Translation
Hello, could a translation administrator (or administrator) please mark Discord/Verification/Intro for translation? Thank you very much.(The text is the same as the previous person, but I'm sorry.) --Waki285 (talk) 05:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, but then why not just put the text on Discord/Verification anyway? The way it is now, people can't read the translated pages from the first page. Then what's the point of that page? --Sabelöga (talk) 14:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ I did not notice the Discord/Verification page before., I think that page's content could be replaced with a redirect to Discord/Verification/Intro. R4356th (talk) 14:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, but why then not move Discord/Verification/Intro to Discord/Verification? --Sabelöga (talk) 14:39, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, that could be done, too. But it is worth noting that the page cannot be translated while the move is in progress. R4356th (talk) 15:11, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, no-one has started any translation, yet have they? --Sabelöga (talk) 15:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Nope, I was just saying that no one can translate while this is being moved. So, yeah, it looks like there is no harm in moving it now. R4356th (talk) 15:28, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I've had a look at both pages and, because Discord/Verification is  protected, moving Discord/Verification/Intro isn't possible. Since the former is a duplication of the latter, what I will do is remove the protection on the former, and either (a) delete the former and move the latter to the deleted former's title (if the latter is an older page than the former page) or (b) delete the latter and remove it from the translate system, allowing any translation administrator to prepare the former page for translation. Dmehus (talk) 16:03, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This is ✅. Discord/Verification can now be translated as it is no longer transcluding Discord/Verification/Intro. Dmehus (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Great. Thank you very much. R4356th (talk) 16:28, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Requesting edit on General disclaimer
Specifically, I request that Special:MyLanguage is added to all the present links and that Terms of Use and Privacy Policy is moved from the tvar tags so that the link text can be translated. Like so:. --Sabelöga (talk) 00:16, 21 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm willing to add this as it does seem like a reasonable and helpful request; however, I meant to follow up with you on my user talk page that I had to remove the Special:MyLanguage prefix from MediaWiki:Mainpage due to an upstream MediaWiki bug that prevented administrators from being able to change the visibility of log entries in Special:Log. So, that prior request you made won't be actionable, unfortunately. However, this seems reasonable, as it isn't changing anything within MediaWiki: namespace. Dmehus (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Dmehus (talk) 00:36, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and to comment on the previous request I made, I understand that it didn't work the way I intend it to so that it was reverted is maybe not a big deal, but being able to direct users to a translated version of the main page is still desirable so maybe if it's possible any other way I guess. Also, maybe that page should have some a categories? --Sabelöga (talk) 00:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for understanding. Yeah, I'll try and think of an alternate method of redirecting users to the translated Main Page. As far as adding categories to the Main Page, that's certainly possible, but I'd have to check with Reception123 and see if it's desirable, but will definitely do that and get back to you. Dmehus (talk) 00:57, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I was also thinking of General disclaimer which doesn't have any categories, the Main page could just have Category:Miraheze if that isn't undesired. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:24, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Translatewiki
I was translating mwgithub-mirahezemagic-custom on translatewiki and saw a problem with one of the translate units. Is there somewhere were I can discuss this further with someone? Specifically there is a lot of wikimarkup in a translate unit that is really unnecessary for translators to copy and steals time. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by unnecessary wiki markup? Most of our MirahezeMagic interface messages are contained within this json file, so any changes to the source messages can be requested in that way, which are then, in turn, update on translatewiki.net for translators to update. The translations are then piped back to Miraheze's GitHub repository every Monday. Dmehus (talk) 02:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I speak specifically about translatewiki:MediaWiki:Mirahezemagic-custom-miraheze-warnmessage in which I don't think that the wikimarkup should be contained withing the translation unit. I mean, can't it be contained outside it? Minimalising the required copy-pasting from the translators and standardising the way the notice looks. The way it is now, I could have changed how it works and if one were to in the future update the source code for the notice one would have to update the translations as well. --Sabelöga (talk) 10:24, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The linked Miraheze warning message doesn't exist on translatewiki.net. Did you possibly mean a different message? Dmehus (talk) 15:16, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Darn it, I mean this one https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&showMessage=mirahezemagic-custom-miraheze-warnmessage&group=mwgithub-mirahezemagic-custom&language=sv&filter=&optional=1&action=translate --Sabelöga (talk) 16:46, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Any developments? Sabelöga (talk) 01:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reminder. Yes, in fact. The good news is that particular MirahezeMagic interface message is an old interface message, so it no longer needs to be translated. The bad news is that we changed the method by which sitenotices are applied to wikis (used to be done by a bot; now it's done automatically by a maintenance script on a cron) and, as a result, those sitenotices can't currently be translated. I did some checking with Nikerabbit in the channel on IRC and, unfortunately, when the source interface message is deleted, the messages on translatewiki.net aren't deleted. Nikerabbit did say that the messages should no longer be sorted into the appropriate message group. So, if for some reason they are, then there could be another issue that will have to be tracked down. Hope that helps. Dmehus (talk) 03:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, so the message is unfortunately no longer supported nor translatable. I understand. --Sabelöga (talk) 07:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, sort of. That message is no longer used, but translatewiki.net doesn't delete outdated messages. The current message is at this page in our GitHub repository, which you can see doesn't offer a way to translate it currently. We'll try and investigate a way to translate it, whether on-wiki or on GitHub, though, but no timeframe for when this will be done. Dmehus (talk) 14:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand. Sabelöga (talk) 14:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Possible new template I've been developing on the test wiki
Possible new template I've been developing on the test wiki to be used on Administrators and other similar lists. Basically, it creates a translatable template that gets transcluded on the lists that in turn gets translated onto the main articles. See User:Sabelöga/Sandlåda for details on how the acutal template looks and works in action. (Also, why don't the testwiki have its own interwiki prefix :/) --Sabelöga (talk) 12:35, 21 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Technically and aesthetically, this looks fine, and I'm not opposed to it, but I have to think about this some more as I was actually planning on using the  as cross-wiki transcluded lists, incorporated into local wikis' lists of users (i.e., for local and global interwiki administrators). Due to an upstream bug with the Translate extension's   and   tags ignoring the   tag when used with scary transclusion, this would pose problems with transclusion. So, let me think about this some more, and I'll try and get back to you on this in the next month or two. Dmehus (talk) 15:21, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay. --Sabelöga (talk) 16:46, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Translate Template:Translated
I'm thinking of marking Template:Translated for translation. Do you think this is a good idea? Also, if I were to do it, I can include the English version in the translated version if the point of the template is to point users to the bottom of the page even if they don't speak the local language. I'm thinking it's beneficial to display the information in both languages. Sabelöga (talk) 01:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * While this might be a good idea, for several reasons, I'd like to postpone preparing this for several reasons. For one thing, I have to look into how the transclusion of translated templates works, which may also add complexity to our translation pages. Keep in mind we have a limited number of translation volunteers, and, while I can see the benefit to translating these templates into languages other than English, our community is nowhere near as large or as active as the Wikimedia translation community. At the same time, we already have a fair number of content, documentation, and policy pages which need translating, translation reviewing, and updating. Finally, I do not want to overburden the  servers too much with an even greater number of pages (now templates) that will require translating. So, I'd really prefer to see us focus on translating content in Main, Meta, and Category namespaces for the time being. Hope that helps. Dmehus (talk) 01:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's fine, it's not that urgent so if things need to be prepared then take your time. Though when it comes to transclusions I believe we can just use Template:TNT which uses the translated version of a template (or other transcludable page) if it exists or the source template (page). Basically I've noticed it actually transcludes {pagename} /en which solves the problem of including translate tags. See how Template:Global policy is used on Dormancy Policy for instance. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. Yeah, I will try and look into it over the next month or so, and hopefully we can prepare it for translation. Dmehus (talk) 03:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay. --Sabelöga (talk) 07:35, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note that we do use translatable templates on most of the policy pages. (Using Template:TNT) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 15:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Exactly my point, so I don't see any issues wth this either. Sabelöga (talk) 15:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

TOC right on Tech:Server admin log
For the sake of reading the page I think that Tech:Server admin log should make use of. I tried to add it but there was a message that said only system administrators should edit the page which makes sense since it's updated by a bot. Now, I don't know how that page is used or by who, but the way it is now that one have to scroll through an enormous amount of TOC to get to the first entry is ridiculous, if the page is never read by humans this should not pose a problem though, but then again why host it here? --Sabelöga (talk) 07:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Reasonable suggestion. ✅. Dmehus (talk) 14:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I only hope this won't create any troubles with the bot when it's due to update the list next. --Sabelöga (talk) 14:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't. Bot adds only a new log entry to the row immediately above the previous row, adding a new section header when the calendar rolls into a new month. Dmehus (talk) 14:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Sabelöga (talk) 15:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Creating a Policy for Marking Pages for Translation
Looking through the recent changes and talk pages, I think we should have an official policy for marking pages for translation on Meta to avoid any kind of possible confusion. A template for informing users that their edit was unhelpful to translators (usually because they either reverted an edit adding s or edited something inside a tvar and did not check the "Do not invalidate translations" option while marking the page for translation) could be helpful, too. Does anybody have any opinion on this? (I am putting this here instead of CN because I believe this needs admins' attention.) R4356th (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This is indeed the correct noticeboard to use for now, as it concerns a Meta specific issue/proposal. While I do agree a policy, or perhaps a guideline adopted by administrators rather than a community adopted policy, could be helpful for translations, we do have a number of more pressing things to get to at the moment, so this probably will not be done for at least a month or two. In the meantime, we do have these translation administrator guidelines that are fairly comprehensive, particularly when you add together this advice which all translation administrators should follow. Moreover, I think most of the pages that need to be prepared for translation have been, so we really just need to focus on updating those pages. Let me know if that helps, and clears that up. Dmehus (talk) 16:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, sure but that template is barely read by non-translationadmins. And it does not mention the part about not marking translations as outdated. R4356th (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a better solution could be to take the elements from the template Dmehus mentions and to make them into a separate guideline page that non-translation administrators could read or easily be linked to (however, they could always be linked to the template too if necessary). I don't think that a policy, per se is needed, simply clear non-controversial guidelines that all users can and should follow. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 16:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * (and Cc: to ) Also, another reason why I'm not sure a formal policy is needed is that I rather like the practice of invalidating translations as then the outdated translations are marked in red. The old translations are still there, and just need to be copied, pasted, and updated. Perhaps we could do well to advise administrators and translation administrators not to invalidate translations for minor things like updating the  tags, but I think we can probably just keep doing this with gentle reminders as we see them. Dmehus (talk) 16:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * +1 for Reception123 idea HeartsDo (Talk || Global || Wiki Creator) 16:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * While I'm not opposed to the above idea, as indeed I was the one that first floated the idea of a possible guideline page, I don't see an immediate need to create it, simply because our current practice of gentle reminders is working well, and non-translation administrators cannot mark pages for translation. Dmehus (talk) 16:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am suggesting creating a policy mostly just so that reminders do not need to be sent. I am not really a fan of the ones that are currently being sent. And +1 for Reception123's idea, from me, too. Additionally, I would like to note that I am not saying it should be done immediately as well. R4356th (talk) 18:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll try and work on a guideline page in the next month or so. I do think we should not make it mandatory, though, to check the "do not invalidate translations" box, though, as that does have its uses (i.e., it lets translators know which sections need to be updated). That being said, perhaps for the time being could ease up on the reminders being sent? Dmehus (talk) 18:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree that it should not be made mandatory since well, as you say, it is useful in several cases. But its use should be encouraged whenever possible, in my opinion, as it is very helpful for translators. When I started working on updating most of the existing Bengali translations, I found that many of them did not really need to be updated since the updates to the English version were minor wording or spelling issue fixes which were already corrected in the translation and had to make null edits to mark them as updated. R4356th (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was reckless on the second one I sent as I didn't realize my advice was being followed. I'm sorry for that one and have apologized to the person the unnecessary message was sent to. But I agree that marking the box "Do not invalidate translations" is useful, sometimes, and it would be beneficial to stake out where it is somewhere so that we can direct people there if there's any uncertainties. Sabelöga (talk) 23:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit request on Administrators
Could someone lower the protection level on Administrators or copy the edit from Special:Diff/146477 there? Don't forget to update the Administrators/List with Special:Diff/146476. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * EDIT: The same request on System administrators, System administrators, and Stewards. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I did notice your inclusion of  tags around the headers of the   subpages, and half expected to have to come here to say ❌, as I noted a little further up on this noticeboard that these   subpages are designed to be easily transcluded onto other wikis. However, in my testing, purging the page several times to be sure, it seems that there were no issues, so I am going to mark this is ✅. It should be done shortly, with the obvious proviso that should unexpected issues crop up with scary transclusion, it will have to be undone. Dmehus (talk) 01:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, the thing here is that you have to provide your own header which then in turn can be translatable, that has to be present or else it will look like this when transcluded: . --Sabelöga (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify what you mean by this just a bit? When I looked at my test revision on TestWiki, I saw a properly formatted table with scary transclusion. When I saw your example, locally transcluded, which I've wrapped in  tags for readability, it was not properly formatted. The transclusion would probably be a bit different with scary transclusion, but I just want to confirm that you also see a properly formatted formatted table on TestWiki. Thanks. 01:51, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, the table you showed me in Test Wiki works fine. If it's supposed to ignore noinclude tags on other wikis then it's working the way it should. Locally on the other hand, one have to provide a header. --Sabelöga (talk) 01:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, in this case, the fact that  tags are ignored with scary transclusion works in our favour here, so this was was a reasonable workaround you devised. In the event the upstream bug is ever patched, we should be able to remove one of the duplicate headers, hopefully. In any event, in your request, you linked to two instances of system administrators. I assume for one of them you meant Global Sysops, but the headers don't seem to quite match up with either of those. Wiki tables can be a bit of a headache to work with, which I invariably don't have the time for, so I'm going to have to ask you to please figure out the wikitable formatting for those pages, and link me to the revisions. You may use either your sandbox on TestWiki or the Meta community sandbox. Thanks. Dmehus (talk) 02:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's good, and yeah, I can work that out. Sabelöga (talk) 02:32, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Aand, done mh:test:User:Sabelöga/sandbox. Sabelöga (talk) 02:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but for Global Sysops, I'm seeing the same wikitext coding as what I used, and the new header doesn't match up with the existing columns, so that's my concern. Also, do you have a diff for the system administrators page? Dmehus (talk) 03:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Well, they do duplicate in my sandbox in TestWiki but they don't do when I preview the copied text Meta, for some reason :/ Sabelöga (talk) 03:15, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, great. Thank you for preparing the updated headers in your TestWiki sandbox, which I've now separately blanked, and ✅ this request. Dmehus (talk) 08:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thank you! Sabelöga (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Requesting edit on MediaWiki:Sidebar
Could someone change the FAQ string to ? This will enable translation of that label from MediaWiki:Faq/sv, MediaWiki:Faq/sv/de, etc. --Sabelöga (talk) 02:23, 28 November 2020 (UTC)