Community noticeboard

Rename global Interwiki administrators group to "Global Interwiki administrator"?
Currently, the global Interwiki administrators group is simply known as "Interwiki administrator". This sometimes causes confusion as in name, there's no distinction from local Interwiki administrators and global ones. A user also recently asked me about this and whether the listing on one's CentralAuth of being an "Interwiki administrator" indicated they were one globally or on one wiki so the name itself isn't the best. We make distinction between roles such as a local sysop and a Global Sysop and local rollbackers and Global Rollbackers but seemingly don't when it comes to Interwiki administrators. As such, I propose that the global Interwiki administrators group be renamed to "Global Interwiki administrator" and it's group name be changed to "global-interwiki-admin," to match other groups like Global Rollbackers (global-rollbacker), Global IP block exemption (global-ipblock-exempt) and to provide further clarity about this positons reach. What does everyone think about this? Agent Isai Talk to me! 06:19, 23 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see "global" as part of the name.
 * I was wondering about that in Discord support. Until I found this post, I thought that all local Interwiki admins could do something globally.  I actually rationalized it down to that these folks were volunteers who were willing to learn to do something most wiki founders aren't quite ready to learn to do for themselves... Imamy (talk) 06:41, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would this as well, it's well within reason and makes sense to match. Thanks - BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 13:26, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds sensible to me. --Raidarr (talk) 14:11, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This change would remove ambiguity, easy . --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 23:20, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Collei (talk) 19:21, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Agent Isai. --1108-Kiju /Talk 06:03, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * per above. by Buehl106·Talk·e-mail 06:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   14:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Interwiki request

 * @Ora & D Hi, this is ✅ --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   16:02, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

I believe I have lost admin permissions on my own Wiki
I haven't accessed my wiki in awhile but I have had friends working on it, when I accessed to confirm more users and more bureaucrats I found out I can no longer access user rights or user groups. I created this wiki, what has happened? Garfieldhub (talk) 23:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC)


 * If you are talking about After the End Wiki, I see nothing that would disallow you from adding regular user rights to people so you will need to be more specific on what comes up if that is what you mean. Now if you mean to add the Editor group to people, you'd likely need to give yourself the right to assign it as I don't see assignment right for it in the admin or bureaucrat groups. --Raidarr (talk) 20:58, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * For reference: https://aftertheend.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:UserRights/Garfieldhub Bbbtest (talk) 21:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Why is my template in this form definition page not working?
Hello and thanks!

I've tested the code in this template already and know that it works when used directly in a form definition page, but when I place it in a template and then call that template into the form definition page of this form it is not displaying correctly when filling out the form. The "for template" and "field" calls are not working.

I believe the error has something to do with transclusion of the pipe characters and I tried using the | trick, but I'm not getting what I'm expecting.

Thanks for your help.

(edited for clarity) ParentRatings (talk) 01:01, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

How it works...
I am tentatively interested in using Miraheze as a private website, without others making edits to articles, but possibly keeping the talk page open for input. Can that be done? 2601:200:4000:5D90:756E:608E:5E67:C4E0 03:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes. That is how my private wiki was arranged before I reset it. You can set regular spaces to protected mode and leave talk pages unprotected using Special:ManageWiki/namespaces. It's slightly tedious with this method (going through each namespace to make sure regular is protected and talk is open) but it worked for me well when done. Raidarr (talk) 04:36, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. Thank you. ~ 2601:200:4000:5D90:E5F9:D27F:C443:A294 16:00, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Real Life Villains Wiki
I feel like a fresh restart of the wiki, would help people cite sources of what they did wrong.

However, I am not sure if they are willing to do that considering it violates Miraheze's Code Of Conduct/TOS. Nidoking (talk) 13:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)


 * If they're willing or not is secondary to the fact such a scope would likely no longer be accepted because of long term policy concerns even with the promise of 'doing it right next time'. To be clear the issue is neither the Code of Conduct nor the Terms of Service, which rarely have scope/wiki wide effects (not unheard of thought): It is typically the Content Policy which is the concern, including in this case. --Raidarr (talk) 13:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

How to to a complete backup
The functionality to generate a complete dump of the wiki seems to be gone. Some months ago on the special dump page I was able to create image files which had some megabytes of data. Now on the current dump page I can only create JSON and xml files, which just have a few kilobytes. (How) can I get a complete backup of my wiki? Kleinholdermann (talk) 18:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The XML backup is a backup of all your wiki articles. That's the format MediaWiki has always used for backups. The only option currently unavailable via DataDump is image backups but if you need one, you can file a Phabricator task. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 20:29, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Mediawiki Client Tools' Mediawiki Scraper Python 3 dumpgenerator script. --Rob Kam (talk) 21:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your answer. Can you maybe give me a hint on what this is and how it is run? Do I have to install this on my PC or is there a way to integrate it into the miraheze wiki? Kleinholdermann (talk) 06:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a Python 3 script to run from the command line on your PC/Mac. Once installed it's just a single (configurable) command run it. It will dump almost any wiki, XML with/without history, images and files and a list of settings and extensions. You'll need to download the script from GitHub and install Python on your PC/Mac to run it. The instructions are at Mediawiki Scraper. Rob Kam (talk) 12:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your answer. I'd like to do a monthly backup of the complete wiki (i.e. with all the uploaded files in it) in order to be able to restore it completely in the case of data loss (as ist has happened recently on miraheze). Filing a task each month which will then probably be processed manually by members of the community(?) does not seem to be the correct solution to this for me. Is there any other way to achieve what I described? Kleinholdermann (talk) 06:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Requests on Special:DataDump are completely automated. We're working on fixing image backups and hope to have them back soon but text backups are 100% operational. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 06:24, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Uploading doesn't work
Whenever I try to upload a file on Free Editing Wiki, I get «[0f31fc26e1c573059a96df44] 2023-02-28 19:32:07: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBReadOnlyError"» Bbbtest (talk) 20:20, 28 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The database is locked --92.52.0.117 20:30, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * How does that prevent image uploads when I can still edit? Bbbtest (talk) 20:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on community-run news wiki about Miraheze
Per advice from a Steward, I'm opening this discussion on the possibility of a community-run news wiki about news involving Miraheze. The proposed wiki would include news involving Miraheze as a whole and major Miraheze-hosted wikis, with policies on writing articles in a NPOV and including references if required, so as to not violate the Content Policy. The wiki request for the proposed wiki is here if you'd like more information about it.

Below are sections for voting (support if you like the idea, oppose if you don't like it, and Abstain if you're undecided/neutral). Tali64³ (talk) 13:54, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) as proposer. Tali64³ (talk) 13:54, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) I see nothing wrong with it, although I'm not sure if this needs a vote regardless, as it isn't an official project. Collei (talk) 19:28, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 3) I suppose? I don’t see an issue. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 00:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 4) An interesting concept. I think we should let it play out, see if administration is good there first, and if there are any issues that arise from it, have Stewards investigate and take further action as necessary. --  Bukkit  [ cetacean needed ] 01:04, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) This wiki running smoothly just has way too many ifs attached to it for me to feel comfortable supporting this idea. I wouldn't trust Stewards, let alone everyday users, to correctly determine if a particular case of user/wiki drama is news-worthy, cover it in a neutral fashion and source it properly. And that's without taking into account that even if all of the above are accomplished, there's still a good chance that making said drama better known only serves to exacerbate it. I don't want to be a Miraheze user in the timeline where this wiki gets accepted, becomes popular and suddenly you have a bunch of toxic users from up-to-now mostly self-contained wikis/communities jumping from one drama bandwagon to the next. - CabraComunista (talk) 19:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Another wiki creator expressed their concern about articles covering drama, and I decided to disallow it indefinitely if the wiki is created. However, that wouldn't preclude a community vote to allow neutrally-written articles on wiki drama in the future, if there is a demand for it. If articles about drama were to be allowed for whatever reason, there would obviously be rules preventing drama from speading to the wiki. Tali64³ (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  per above
 * 2)   While I think such a concept could work, after thinking on it a bit longer I perceive a great risk for magnification of a particular on-wiki drama by well-meaning contributors with insufficient judgement -- the risks of amplifying problematic behavior and inspiring bad behavior "to make the news" outweigh the benefits.  As the original party involved with the request, consider this vote struck if it would be a deciding vote in the negative --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:26, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * With a news wiki focusing on Miraheze wikis/users, that is something to be concerned about. However, it's less of an issue with a news site with articles being edited by anyone, since for example, if a user were to find a poorly-written news page with incorrect information and bias, they could correct it themselves instead of asking the author to do so, as the author may not be willing to rewrite their article. If it were a typical news site with a group of editors, then there is a greater chance of bias, since there are less editors. Additionally, there would be rules in place that would prevent users from writing articles about conflicts they're involved in or related to in some way, to reduce bias and drama even further. Tali64³ (talk) 19:45, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Abstain

 * I agree with this and think very nice idea.I also think users can notice miraheze news on even meta, so seems not needed. by Buehl106 ·Talk·e-mail 00:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The proposal sounds as though the wiki would assemble news from actual news media covering Miraheze. That sounds like a modest and sensible bit of self-promotion, which would, over time, help Miraheze justify having a page at Wikipedia.  On the other hand, the objections sound as though the wiki would include insider news on individual wikis, written by the participants, which might veer into drama (and would fortify Wikipedia's view that this is a private club that doesn't deserve an entry).  It is hard to write about drama neutrally, and it is very hard for those mentioned to agree that it was written neutrally.   00:50 4-Mar-2023 00:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The news wiki would cover news concerning Miraheze as a whole or major wikis (which may or may not include news media covering Miraheze). There is a valid concern that insider news written by participants of a certain wiki might veer into drama; however, the benefit of having news articles be editable by anyone ensures a neutral point of view.
 * There are arguments against your statement that insider news "would fortify Wikipedia's view that this is a private club that doesn't deserve an entry"; for example, several drama pits, such as Encyclopedia Dramatica (which is entirely based on drama) have pages on Wikipedia. In contrast, Miraheze doesn't have a page there because it's not considered notable enough for inclusion. Tali64³ (talk) 00:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm paraphrasing "Wikipedia's view", but their standard of notability rests on mention by established news media. The Wikipedia article on ED has 86 footnotes, some of them from established sources.  Some of the news articles document efforts by independent services such as Google to restrict access to ED.  That's notable.  It would not prove anything that Wikipedia didn't apply its principles consistently or that ED is not as useful a website as Miraheze; ED got more notable by practicing "racism".  If our proposed wiki assembled independent mentions of Miraheze, it would help prove notability.  On the other hand, being open for editing by many people does not ensure neutrality.   18:40 4-Mar-2023 18:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Comments
I have certain questions to help determine the feasibility of this idea: I could see other issues being dealt with as the wiki moves along, but these two stand out to me as fundamental issues in a wiki that wishes to cover a global aspect of Miraheze. --Raidarr (talk) 14:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) How do you see the wiki being administered, as a global 'sattelite project' in the vein of Dev, Commons and Test wiki, while avoiding their problems (ie, a largely inactive administration)?
 * 2) How would you reconcile the scope of this wiki with this rfc closure, which reiterates the not-quite-official nature and sanction of wikis like the ones listed above?


 * The wiki would be community-run and would not be officially endorsed or sponsored by Miraheze. However, if any Stewards/Global Sysops expressed interest in contributing, they'd be free to do so.
 * Per above, there would be a notice stating that the wiki isn't officially endorsed/sponsored by Miraheze.
 * Tali64³ (talk) 15:18, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Having thought of this some more, I believe that this concept should be downscaled to a community initiative operating on Meta. This could be realized through a handful of volunteers who produce a monthly summary of what's going on and what's new for the platform and prominent or up-and-coming wikis. This could be organized through a central page (with project discussion on its talk page) and dated subpages for each issue which could be advertised on Discord, the Community Noticeboard and if it goes well, perhaps the main page (with admin collaboration and after community feedback on the project). The central page can explain what's up, what the standards are (say notability: not advertising literally any wiki that has just been approved but with a substantive bar for changes worth checking out), and have a section to suggest items for the next entry. It would be produced from a core group of volunteers who'd of course be open to submissions and feedback or taking on fellow organizers as needed. This would satisfy the interest in covering Miraheze news and I think the volume would fit one nicely made page per month just fine (or another interval as possible/practical). It would avoid the raw volume and likely issues of a full-fledged wiki on the subject, and it would be a chance to demonstrate the concept. If it's apparent that a full wiki is needed to further realize it, the topic can be revisited with that experience so the current skepticism can be cut through. This is something I'd personally support and even be willing to help produce. If successful I'd say it should be the point where the current Gazetteer of wikis is retired as obsolete, as we'd then have a responsive list of everything via WikiDiscover plus an actively curated highlights feature for the community. --Raidarr (talk) 14:06, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Slideshow (Wiki Coding)
Hey, I am trying to make a slideshow on the Main Page for quick Admin access. I tried Copy/Pasting the code from another wiki, that I got the idea from, but it doesn't work. Could I have proper coding to make it a slideshow? Thanks! Slideshow page I would like it to be on Slideshow code I tried and got idea from 《Commetian_Empire》 (talk) 00:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * It looks like you don't have the Javascript Slideshow extension enabled on your wiki. Enabling that should fix it. Tali64³ (talk) 00:15, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I got it to work, fixing that! 《Commetian_Empire》 (talk) 01:50, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I have briefly returned
Yes, I am back and have matured significantly. I am now in university however (will not say which one) so I will have some time constraints.

I now have an alternate account that is only intended for use on the Polandball Wiki.

Also, I'm not sure if this is a topic to talk about, but I think it might help in some way. I am a Christian who, fortunately, does believe in rational things while staying true to Biblical doctrine (I now have doubts about young-earth creationism). (One of my affiliated church communities) I do not intend to force my beliefs on others; neither am I extremist or believe in irrational and dangerous things, unlike many fanatics who sadly taint my beliefs by taking up our name. Sadly, however, I was swayed by them in a period from 2019 to 2021. It was only recently that I recognized that some "Christians" are pushing unbiblical and irrational doctrines that are downright dangerous, so I think it might be a good idea that these be blacklisted throughout Miraheze to make this a safer community. Upon request, I can give examples of dangerous extremist sites to blacklist.

Thanks and God Bless Joey717 (talk) 22:19, 5 March 2023 (UTC) (Joseph D. Pelobello)


 * That's nice and all, but why is this on the community noticeboard? Collei (talk) 22:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You do not intend to force your beliefs on others but you want to have beliefs you don't like blocked from the platform. You will need some thorough examples connected to actual policy for that statement to sound good. The rest is not topical to this board. --Raidarr (talk) 23:16, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I obviously don't want to block Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, neo-Pagans, etc. of course; I was just talking about extremism and disinformation.
 * Joey717 (talk) 00:04, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "I'm not sure if this is a topic to talk about" here, I'll help you out: it's really not. Good for you on your personal journey, maybe go read some Dumbing of Age to see how Joyce you are. Calling for religious-based censorship unprompted is a bad look. Miraheze has policies for extremist content and hate speech already, we don't need to make this a Crusade. Chantolove (talk) 17:40, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I think we should end it at that. I don't want to be misinterpreted, I only wanted to ban extremism and hate speech. Thanks for the advice! Joey717 (talk) 19:07, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Extremism and hate speech are already banned, both by UK law and Miraheze policies. Collei (talk) 20:13, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think merely being an extremist is illegal in the UK. It's also a very broad term that could be easily misinterpreted, or used maliciously. I don't know of any Miraheze policies that prohibit "extremism" either. Bbbtest (talk) 04:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The UK does not have the same level of free speech as the US. Hate speech (,, etc.) is illegal in the UK. Collei (talk) 05:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1. I will note that this conversation, given the sensitive nature of the topic, could easily probe the waters of GCP violations, and VCP for some involved. It hasn't yet, but just something to keep in mind because of the topic at hand. Reminder to keep everything respectful, even if we don't necessarily agree with another user's point of view.
 * 2. Extremism is banned by the UK in some cases, not all. But hate speech would likely violate Articles III, V, or VII anyway, so likely not a problem Content Policy-wise. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 05:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I already know that hate speech is illegal in the UK. Extremism is banned by the UK in some cases, not all. Which cases? (Thanks)
 * P.S. I replied to you on freeeditingwiki if you weren't aware. Not sure if you received my reply, as Miraheze - unlike Wikimedia - does not appear to give cross-wiki pings. :) Bbbtest (talk) 06:55, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Cross-wiki pinging must be enabled by users in their own preferences. --Raidarr (talk) 13:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh. Doing that now. Thanks. Bbbtest (talk) 14:25, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I should note that for Collei to receive it cross-wiki he also needs to have it enabled. I think it is good for anyone to have enabled though, and perhaps it should be better advertised or even a default... --Raidarr (talk) 14:32, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would most definitely endorse it as the default. Can I start a phab task? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 14:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know the consequences and arguments/counterarguments that might appear but it's probably worth discussing. --Raidarr (talk) 15:08, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So, can I phab it or not? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 15:16, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Up to you. I don't see why you can't. --Raidarr (talk) 15:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Feel free to endorse it here. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 15:53, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, that depends what you mean by extremism. Violent and hateful extremism is banned in the UK. Collei (talk) 18:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * By that. do meaning that acting on said extremism is illegal? Or merely holding those beliefs? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 19:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Acting on it Collei (talk) 21:10, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, that would mean that extremism isn't illegal. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 21:12, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you provide some examples of extremism? BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 06:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What the hell did I just walk myself into? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 23:52, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why it was necessary to 'walk the hell into it' with nothing to add to it, quite frankly. --Raidarr (talk) 13:49, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why it was necessary to 'walk the hell into it' with nothing to add to it, quite frankly. --Raidarr (talk) 13:49, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Twitter tag extension isn't working?
Hello everybody. It's my first message in this community noticeboard. First, thank you for Miraheze, it's the best wiki hosting I know.

I am trying to use Twitter tag extension. I enabled it yesterday, but it doesn't show the timeline, just a link to Twitter. Am i doing something wrong or it's broken?

Thanks. Emijrp (talk) 18:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)


 * It seems to be working now, try again  20:51, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

interwiki for 2 wikis





 * working on this now
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 18:13, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 18:36, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! There's an extra space at the end of  URL. Ora &#38; D (talk) 19:03, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I tried to be extra judicious about removing those this time after the last batch I did for one of your requests. I didn't see it when going into edit so I just did a removal and re-add.  Can you test again and confirm if it's fixed? --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:52, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's easy to miss. All good now! Ora &#38; D (talk) 20:02, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * For the record, I don't actively add trailing spaces just to trick unsuspicious interwiki admins. Ora &#38; D (talk) 20:44, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh 100%, not implied as such. It's a vestige of copy-paste from tables, but easier to sneak through on right-to-left language pages since the cursor doesn't always behave consistently in trying to find them depending on how the browser's feeling at any given moment. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 20:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wait, you guys actually enter local wikis, type, and locally edit their interwiki entries? I assumed there was some kind of global interface. Ora &#38; D (talk) 21:17, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup! Some stuff can be done through global pages on Meta, local interwikis aren't one of those things.  That can pose some unique challenges at times. :) --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 01:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * RTL wikis must look upside down. Is 'no' the default option (forward & transclude)? Ora &#38; D (talk) 09:11, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's correct, it flips around the location of a few interactable items, but defaults remain the same. Forward & Transclude are still default no and must be intentionally opted in.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 15:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Very unusual issue on my wiki
When I ping more than 33 users, the page containing the ping is added to the Category "Pages with too many expensive parser function calls" I don't know why is happens, but the ping still seems to work. Example: https://freeediting.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Ping/2/sandbox Bbbtest (talk) 09:55, 8 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I doubt the feature was intended to support such aggressive pinging and it probably overloaded whatever it's using to make the calls. SRE could probably enlighten on this one, but it would probably be a low priority to address or fix. Flow and related features can be a bit delicate. In the meantime I'd avoid distributing so many pings and finding a more efficient way to mass notify; if you need that many people then for example a sitenotice is probably appropriate. --Raidarr (talk) 14:25, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't need to mass message. It just showed up when I was testing my ping template implementation and I was curious to why. Bbbtest (talk) 14:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a default upper limit of either 50 or 100 expensive calls when parsing a page, as I recall. I don't recall how many a single ping uses up, but probably more than 1 if you're hitting the limit w/ 33 pings and nothing else going on on the page. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 15:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Take a look here: https://freeediting.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Ping/2/sandbox Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 15:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Content Policy Amendment - Derogatory Language
Given recent gaps identified in community understanding of content policy 3 (unsubstantiated insult/hate/rumors), I am proposing the following changes to clarify intent and permissibility of certain types of derogatory language that have proliferated on the platform.

Proposals here should be read as only impacting article content, not amending or superceding any of the Conduct Policies (Global, Volunteer, MSCoC), which apply to talk pages and other modes of user-to-user interaction.

Upon consultation with stewards, given single-issue scope of changes and intent as a policy clarification via amendment, this vote is being launched as a CN Feedback Request instead of a RfC post per RfC Policy.

Initiated By: NotAracham (talk) 18:01, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 1 (Amend Content Policy 3)
Add the following bolded clause to the end of Content Policy 3, changing reading to:

''Content on wikis must be fairly balanced, meaningful or substantiated by independent referencing. Wikis which have a clearly identifiable comedic or satire value are exempt from needing to substantiate claims as these provide a meaningful value in terms of relevant content.'' Exceptions for comedy/satire do not cover derogatory language based on factors such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, age, disability, or other marginalised groups.

Rationale
The comedy/satire exception today is being widely abused as rationale for 'racism/sexism/bigotry is okay if it's a joke' by individuals with a variety of goals/ambitions, and is without fail a step towards larger policy violations under CP3 (unsubstantiated hate/insults), CP5 (toxic communities) and CP10 (Making problems for other wikis).

Factors listed are intentionally duplicative of those listed and approved by the community in Content Policy 7 to avoid inter-clause reliance

While Stewards generally will act on these instances when found, the reputational damage for allowing unchecked behavior of this kind is sufficient to merit closing this perceived loophole in my opinion.

Support

 * 1) as proposer. --NotAracham (talk) 19:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) I agree. --1108-Kiju /Talk  01:05, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 3) gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation is clarified, as it could easily abused. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 22:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 4) Definitely reasonable. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 01:23, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What are your thoughts about my above concerns? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 01:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m not really sure how it would be abused. Could you provide an example? BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 01:59, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * See the 'Comments' section for a simple example. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 02:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  Parody must not be used as a "loophole" that would allow a person to circumvent the policy by claiming everything is "parody". --DeeM28 (talk) 13:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1) As this proposal applies only to content policy, this change would not govern or impact re-appropriative use of derogatory terms in person-to-person interactions, Conduct policy would supercede in these cases. --NotAracham (talk) 19:10, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) marginalized? I don't why that's necessary. It could also easily be abused. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 22:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The language was selected to explicitly mirror current community-approved language in Content Policy clause 7, as this wording was already approved and doesn't need to go through full RfC. Agreed though that there is room for improvement/clarification.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 00:27, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What about "gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation"? Couldn't that easily be abused? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 01:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's worth remembering that the assessing and enforcing party in these instances will generally be stewards, who have already demonstrated a high level of fairness, sound judgement and community trust in securing and retaining their role.
 * If local leadership is abusing this wording in the other direction (e.g. a malicious actor trying use this as cover to purge any mention of non white/cisgender/heterosexual individuals), that would not go well for them.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 01:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt that stewards would enforce it fairly, but different users may come to have different interpretations of the same rules if they are unclear. Example: A user with creationist views may think that content against such views would violate these policies. And they very well may be right, if the rules are not clear. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 01:24, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * While I hear your concerns, this is a hypothetical that hasn't played out for the duration of the language above existing in CP7.
 * Updating the already-approved language would be out of scope for this FR as it would shift this from being a single-issue proposal (and would likely need to go through a proper RfC as it goes beyond minor clarification.)
 * I would likely support that clarification if proposed, though. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 01:31, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have thought of a way to clarify it, but the explanation is pretty long, so reply if your interested. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 19:27, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 2 (Amend Content Policy 7)
Add the following bolded clause to the end of Content Policy 7, changing reading to:

''7. Miraheze does not host wikis that promote violence, hatred, or harassment against a person or group of people. This include wikis which promote violence or hatred against people or groups of people based on factors such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, age, disability, or other marginalised groups. Derogatory language based on these factors is not allowed except when relevant to documenting an event, e.g. controversy about the inclusion of derogatory terms in a book. ''

Rationale
While CP3 is intended to cover these sorts of instances, an explicit declaration of intent in CP7 will hopefully cut down on proliferation of bad actors operating under the protections of 'comedy/satire'.

While Stewards generally will act on hateful instances when found, setting a global baseline is healthy for Miraheze in the long-term.

Support

 * 1) as proposer. --NotAracham (talk) 19:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) It is a reasonable proposal. --1108-Kiju /Talk  01:09, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 3) Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail | please vote on my adminship ) 22:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 4) Per above. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 01:24, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1) As this proposal applies only to content policy, this change would not govern or impact re-appropriative use of derogatory terms in person-to-person interactions, Conduct policy would supercede in these cases. --NotAracham (talk) 19:10, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) NotAracham What do you consider to be included in the definition "documenting an event" and what would not qualify under this provision? And additionally does this provision only include the use of specific terms or would it include a general view being expressed? --DeeM28 (talk) 13:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * My general framing intent on this is 'If the term or language is meaningfully relevant to necessary context within an article'. The use of the phrase derogatory language is intentional to cover more than specific terms. Describing someone's bigotry would not be a violation, but bigoted speech would be a violation.
 * E.g. writing an article about antisemitism or an anti-semitic event doesn't give a free pass for use of anti-semitic language throughout the article, while an article about a Roald Dahl book getting edited due to specific use of the N word or similar may require the term (or terms) to be listed for full context. Similarly, it doesn't give a free pass to use bigoted language throughout the article.
 * Determining what's in or out of bounds is a mess to codify systematically, but as stewards are the intended enforcement mechanism for this provision, some leeway is given to their discretion in the matter on what does or does not qualify.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Co-founding a wiki
Is it possible for multiple users to found a wiki? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 00:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Being a wiki founder doesn't really mean anything. The 'founder' group doesn't exist on wiki, the highest you can go is bureaucrat. If you want another user to have as many rights as you, just promote them to bureaucrat. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 00:23, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What I meant was if more than one user can co-create a wiki. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 01:12, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The CreateWiki system only supports a request from a single user account. That user account is free to grant bureaucrat and administrator roles to anyone else following creation, that essentially gives the follow-on users equal standing to make requests on behalf of the wiki.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 01:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * From the social perspective of 'can two users come up with, design and administer a wiki together' absolutely. It's just that one of them needs to put in the request and give the other equal rights upon creation. --Raidarr (talk) 01:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, can you close this discussion now? I can't seem to find the template to do so? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 01:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are some discussion templates to do it but we tend not to close it outright unless absolutely necessary or it is a formal one ie, an FR or an RFC. --Raidarr (talk) 02:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Template:Anchor
I'm trying to insert an anchor into the page: , but the anchor is not added, but a link to the template appears. With what it can be connected? Wiki: ovik.miraheze.org Dimok911 (talk) 11:03, 11 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you make a demo of the issue in English so I can help? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 19:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bbbtest I switched the wiki interface to English and recorded a demo, but unfortunately I can't add a link to the forum, because I'm being asked to enter a captcha, but I can't see it. Here is the address on youtube: watch?v=mC793Gb5CSs Dimok911 (talk) 10:00, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Site question
Any news on the status of the Drawn Feet wiki site? I miss being a member on it. --Spare-tire (talk) 02:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Changing username
How do you change it? 12.202.154.138 03:57, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Login to your account and click here. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 06:31, 12 March 2023 (UTC)