Requests for Stewardship

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 * Archive 1 (December 2016 - October 2020)

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Nomination of Dmehus as Steward
User: Dmehus ( contributions &bull; CA &bull; blocks log &bull; rights log &bull; global rights log )

Reasoning for nomination
In my opinion, Dmehus is an outstanding Miraheze contributor. He is one of the most active users at Miraheze. He has gone above and beyond with [ wiki requests], reviewing approximately 90% of all wiki requests through mid October 2020, and has created more than 630 wikis (as of 7 November 2020). He is a community-elected member of the Code of Conduct Commission, an administrator on Meta, a global interwiki administrator, and the only Consul on TestWiki besides Miraheze system administrators or existing stewards. He has made nearly 5,000 editing contributions on Meta alone and over 7,000 editing contributions globally. He is always eager to help, is very active on Discord and IRC, is extremely active in answering all questions to the best of his ability on all noticeboards. I believe he would make an ideal steward, primarily because of his activity, eagerness to help, and willingness to seek advice from others when it is either necessary or he is uncertain of something. Based on conversations I have personally had with Dmehus, it's abundantly clear that he understands all global policies, and is capable of upholding, such policies, and will investigate without making brash or rushed decisions. He understands the myriad functions a steward performs, and should he accept this nomination, I have faith he will successfully make the Miraheze community significantly better with him as Steward. Thank you for considering Dmehus as Steward.


 * Nominated by:
 * 05:42, 1 December 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * As a reminder, please give the nominated candidate time to accept the nomination and add their candidate's acceptance statement. Thank you.


 * Candidate's indication of acceptance:
 * Dmehus (talk) 05:45, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Universal Omega, both for the kind, thoughtful, and eloquent words in your nomination statement and for nominating me for steward, which I am pleased to accept. The primary reason for my requesting stewardship, by my accepting this nomination, is essentially the same reason that I joined the global Miraheze community in that I am passionate about its raison d'être, which is to provide ad free wiki hosting in a community volunteer-run, entirely open source, and free environment, and so, central to that reason is that as Miraheze continues to grow over the long term, it becomes of paramount importance to ensure our resources scale commensurately with the growth of both our hosted wikis and total users. Resources, in this context, certainly means funding and server resources, which the board will manage and plan, as applicable, together with the advice of system administrators, but its resources also means growing our people resources in order provide service to our customers that is both exceptional and excellent, as our customers are central to Miraheze's very existence. Customers run and collaborate in building the wikis which they request from us, but they are also our sources of financial capital, which pays our server hosting expenses, and human capital, for editing or translating content pages on our central community-run wikis, answering technical support questions on the noticeboards, writing or adapting code, and the like. As we continue to grow and because we run entirely by community volunteers, all of whom have other real life obligations, we need to ensure we continue to scale up our global community volunteers and managers, in order to fulfill customer requests that cannot be actioned by local wiki bureaucrats for myriad reasons which include technical, security, and legal. At the same time as there is a need to scale up our people resources, Miraheze has seen its steward complement actually decrease by 40% over the previous twelve months thereby making the need for an additional steward that much greater. Of the remaining three stewards, two of them are also Site Reliability Engineers, one of whom is both the cofounder of Miraheze and the primary developer of the CreateWiki, ManageWiki, and other extensions central to Miraheze, so they have incredible competing demands and pressures on and for their time. While I am indeed only one person, I feel that both my level of Miraheze global community activity and volunteerism combined with the fact I am not also a system administrator should not only fill the gap created by the steward resignations in the past year, but also actually significantly increase our capacity for handling customer requests more quickly and efficiently, which, in turn, would maintain and help to increase total customer/user satisfaction levels.
 * Candidate's acceptance statement:

While the steward user group does add extra technical bits, the reality is that, as one of English Wikipedia's co-founders somewhat famously remarked on requesting advanced permissions, it's really not a big deal, and the principle reasons behind this are two-fold. For one thing, stewards are both grounded and guided by a combination of our community-adopted global policies and non-codified steward conventions and customs that have normalized over time. Secondarily, they already have an established history that clearly demonstrates that they are both responsible and trustworthy, In this way, a steward is not that different, really, from the trusted public servant in the department of motor vehicles or even a bank teller that helps to facilitate customer requests in line with government or company policies and practices. As Universal Omega has also articulated in his nomination statement, I believe that I have so clearly demonstrated that in myriad ways, some of which include, but which are by no means limited to, my clerking work on Meta's noticeboards, responding to requests whether I am able to complete them or refer to other colleagues and volunteers as necessary, answering customer/user questions on community noticeboard and Discord, handling wiki requests, handling local interwiki table requests on community noticeboard, Discord, and my own user talk page, and responding to and handling requests and counter vandalism work on Miraheze Commons and Miraheze Template Wiki. Perhaps equally importantly, too, since stewards are often called upon to mediate disputes between users or between two wikis, has been my dispute resolution work, whether officially as part of the Code of Conduct Commission or, even more importantly, as just a community member, engaging with local wiki community members when users have come to me with assistance resolving local blocks on wikis to which they'd never previously contributed, as just one type example. So with that, I look forward to being able to help handle customer/user requests more efficiently and engage with local wiki members to help them get the most of both their wikis and their Miraheze experience, and thank you all in advance for your consideration of my request for stewardship, and am always happy to answer any questions, whether as part of this request or following this request, at my user talk page, which remains one of the more active pages on Meta Wiki.

Prerequisite

 * Non-disclosure agreement signed and on file with Miraheze. ✅ (verify)

Support

 * 1)  As nominator.  05:42, 1 December 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * 2)  for the same reasons. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk) 05:49, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 3) In my short time here he's been super helpful and friendly! Verne (talk) 05:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 4)  Very active, very helpful, I don't see why I should not support this request! There tools will be benefic for him and the community! HeartsDo (Talk || Global || Wiki Creator) 05:55, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 5)  I have had the opportunity to have numerous discussions with Dmehus regarding various wiki related topics, and I have also seen his vast contributions to Miraheze. For the past few months, Dmehus has been very active on Miraheze's several platforms: on-wiki (especially Meta), on Discord and on IRC. He has been very kind and helpful to all users and has responded to a large number of requests and questions on Meta's several noticeboards. In addition, he has also participated in various community discussions and has also mediated a few incidents between users, not to mention that he's a member of the Code of Conduct Commission. All these different factors (including my various discussions with him) demonstrate to me that he understands Miraheze's global policies well and also has a great dynamic with users, which would in my view make for a good Steward. Since two thirds of our current Stewards are also sysadmins, I also think it will be nice to be able to have a non-sysadmin Steward, and Dmehus would be especially helpful since, as I mentioned before he's been very active ever since he joined Miraheze. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 06:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 6)  I think you'll be a credit to the Steward team.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  08:02, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 7) He is extremely active on Meta and its sister wikis and very well-mannered. There is no way I am not supporting this. R4356th (talk) 10:53, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 8) Zppix (Meta &#124; Sysadmin &#124; talk to me) 15:16, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 9)  Always willing to help everyone, even trying when not sure to guide you to the right direction!  SkarletWitch (talk) 15:48, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 10)  Yes I agree with everyone. Dmehus has done an excellent job on both here and on Discord. He is always helpful when it comes to advice and especially since he's been helping not only me, but other users along the way. In other words, I'd be honored if he becomes a steward. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) 16:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 11)  I agree with the above points, Dmehus has been extremely helpful in a lot of areas. It would be a major benefit to have him as a Steward.  Hypercane  (  talk ) 03:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 12)  He is pretty reliable.--Waki285 (talk) 05:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 13)  Waldo (talk) 05:29, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 14)  I cannot think of a better candidate for stewardship. They're a Meta Administrator, a Consul on TestWiki, and a Wiki Creator. They also have all of the qualities needed to be a good steward, and are active on Requests for Adoption. Justarandomliberal (talk) 10:22, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 15)  I have said already months ago that I believed that Miraheze needed more active Stewards because the current ones were not enough for all the wikis. After that, unfortunately another Steward, The Pioneer resigned and we have been left with even less Stewards, and even the ones that we have are not very active because I am sure they have other things to do to keep Miraheze functional. The task of Steward is surely not an easy one and I it is reserved to a small group of very experienced and trusted people. Even though five months is not a lot to have been on Miraheze and that fact would usually make me very hesitant to cast a supporting vote to a candidate for such an important post, I think that Dmehus' activity (7000+ global edits) is enough to overcome that issue. While there are of course some areas of improvement, looking at Dmehus' contributions, I think that he would make a adept Steward because he is a very courteous person who tries his best to help users. Of course, a Steward also has to know when and how to be more firm in some situations, but it is always important to begin by assuming good faith and trying to help users, which Dmehus does very well in my opinion, and his actions could be used as an example for some other users. Finally, I hope that Dmehus will continue to stay this active and help out the community which he has done very well so far from my observations. DeeM28 (talk) 11:25, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 16)  He is a good faith user and i think He is worthy of Steward, he is very helpful  --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 15:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 17)  Very helpful on the Miraheze server and website, I definitely have support for this Paramount1106 (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 18)  He has Integrity, he is passionate and I think he will do right by the community. He will go above and beyond. He's also very active. Paladox (talk) 15:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 19)  What I would say, was already said by my colleagues. In short, he is always willing to help in any way he can. Good luck! Hispano76 (talk) 16:56, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 20) I was no doubt surprised when I found out that Dmehus had only joined a little under six months ago. From the edits he makes, you would definitely get the idea that he has been here for several years. While granting steward to such a new user may be risky, I believe that my impression shows that Dmehus has overpowering standard and ability to act as steward well. Naleksuh (talk) 19:13, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 21) GrahamSH (talk) 16:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Revocation of Dmehus' Steward rights
Since Doug has became steward his behaviour on and off wiki has been consisting of "I don't hear that", changing/adding/etc things on off wiki venues (I.E. IRC/Discord) without discussion or proper reasoning [1 ]. He constantly brings up CoC in conversation, which can be interpreted as threatening. He also expresses behaviour that can be interpreted as him believing he is always right, and when challenged, he just "can't understand why [the user] can't DROPTHESTICK." I believe the steward has just given him too much power and its sadly turn his behaviour for the worse. Looking elsewhere, he did have a previous block on the English Wikipedia for behaviour similar to this. Since he became steward, it is of my belief drama has much more increased within the community. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 03:08, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Support
He appears to be disrespecting a user's opinion all the while not understanding the user's view. 192.145.116.133 22:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) as nom. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 03:08, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Yes, this is the reason for my inactivity.  Total demotivation anything to do.  I will provide some diffs etc.  later today. Also there is always only one true, his. Also, if a steward does what he wants (for example Report extension), he should not be a steward. There are few stewards, we need them, but I believe there will be someone else who will run.  Being active cannot be the main argument for keeping of rights.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 03:42, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) I agree with everything Zppix has here written. BenPlenty (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) I personally believe a steward shouldn't negatively assume as much as he does. He also appears to have the mindset of "I'm right, you're wrong"; I think a steward should have an open mind, which he does at times but not enough to my liking. I find him very argumentative and I really think he should be more empathetic so that he can have an understanding to how others feel or perceive instead of falsely assuming something or misunderstanding people. I don't doubt that he's done some useful things, but his behavior for the most part just doesn't sit well with me. Danner (talk) 19:30, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) *I have to say I really don't see where this argument is coming from, and I know Dmehus always talks about and insists that good-faith is assumed (#miraheze-cvt is proof of that), and I've not seen any lack of empathy. Again, as I said in my oppose statement I think we would all benefit if links and evidence were provided rather than claims just being thrown around with nothing to back them up.  Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 20:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) **Hi, I know you're talking to Danner but I found this: https://meta.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ThomasTheTrainFan2&diff=prev&oldid=163180&diffmode=source
 * 1) ***Just for the record, this IP got blocked by Doug after he made this comment, I realize this is a potiental proxy/vpn, but blocking someone that is providing evidence is very wrong... should of been left for someone else, as it now looks as if the intent could of been to silence users with evidence against him. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 22:58, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) ****Not at all, no open proxies policy states that open proxies are to be globally soft blocked from editing on sight across the Miraheze wiki farm. Assuming the anonymous user already has an account, they're most welcome to login and add further comments. Additionally, they can also create an account without using the given NordVPN range, then login, and comment. Dmehus (talk) 23:08, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) *****I’m aware of what NOP says, I also know its usually in bad taste to block people whom comment on a request involving you. No where on NOP does it say it has the person whom discovered it to be the blocking person. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 23:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) ******I see your point, and get what you're saying, and if this were blocking a user's account, yes, that would be inappropriate. However, in this case, it is not a block of the user; rather, it is just a block of a known open proxy/VPN (NordVPN), which are prohibited from editing anonymously across the Miraheze wiki farm. The comment was not struck. The user themselves was not blocked; they are most welcome to login or to create an account and login to add to their comment. It would arguably be derelict in my responsibilities as a Steward to not globally soft block a known open proxy/VPN that I observed being used on Miraheze, as one of the responsibilities of Stewards and Global Sysops is to ensure the community's established global policies, which include no open proxies policy, are carried out. Dmehus (talk) 23:24, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) ******* this a quote from yourself on my revocation of GS, you seem to fail to follow your own advice. You clearly blocked the IP giving no thought to COI, and you refuse to accept the fact you should of let another steward or GS handle it. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 23:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) ********Hrm? I'm not sure I see your point here. The quotation around which you're deriving your comment has been taken out of context. You didn't dispute that the soft block per no open proxies policy was incorrect; your issue seems to be with me as the global functionary that enacted said block. No open proxies policy works in harmony with user accounts policy, both of which are global policies, and so the former is to be globally soft blocked on sight mainly to prevent abuse of the latter. It would be derelict of me not to block an open proxy/VPN that I noticed in . If another global functionary wants to unblock and reblock, or suggests it be unblocked, I would have no issues with doing that or having them do that, after having considered the rationale provided. So, I'm not sure I see your point about me not being willing to take criticism. I would also add that I'm still waiting for you to identify to me specific issues which I haven't resolved or course corrected to your satisfaction. Instead, you've proceeded directly to this request without having made sufficient attempts to resolve issues with me directly or with other Stewards. Dmehus (talk) 23:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) *********I can’t really make it more clear, you, the person this request is about, globally blocked an IP addreess, that commented on said request, which would be a COI, as your the user involved in the request, therefore another person should of handled the blocking, not yourself. It would be like if I were to block someone that voted oppose right now, it would be wrong, regardless if policy supports it, as I am involved. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 00:01, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) **********I get that, as I said above, but we do not permit anonymous users from voting in permissions requests or RfCs. They can make comments, certainly, and I've done nothing to the anonymous user's account (if the anonymous user has an account), nor have I restricted them from further commenting on this request at all. I've just globally soft rangeblocked the NordVPN IP per policy. The user is most welcome to make further comments, logged in or logged out, but just not logged out using that VPN. So, I'm not sure how this would be a conflict of interest, as I said above. Part of being a Steward is weighing whether enforcing our global policies outweighs any perceived potential conflict of interest. As a hypothetical example, the Code of Conduct Commission policy stipulates that Commission members are supposed to recuse themselves in cases where they work closely in non-Commission capacities with either the subject(s) of the complaint or the complainant(s). In practical terms, this isn't always possible if there were a case that was either brought to the Commission by or was about a member of either the Steward or system administrator team. As I said, it would be derelict of me to neglect my responsibilities to enforce no open proxies policy, together with other policies, but I would be most happy for another Steward or Global Sysop, whether Void, John, Reception123, MrJaroslavik, or some other person to review the block and either (a) reblock or (b) unblock. Dmehus (talk) 00:14, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) ***********CoC doesnt not enforce NOP... nor is this request about CoCC, you say you get the point, but yet you continue to spout irrelevant policies and processes that arent related to the situation. This is why I have difficulty bringing this up to you privately, clearly you either refuse or are incapable of actually understanding how COI works, regardless I do believe that theres a severe lack of policy understanding which for a steward isn’t acceptable. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 00:31, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  First of all, I'd like to start with the main issue with this request, not even regarding the claims being made. The main issue I have is that there have not, in my view, been sufficient attempts to discuss your concerns with Dmehus. I concede that there have been some but for the most part at least they were not very civil and were heated arguments rather than sensible discussions which could have occurred on a talk page (as to be visible to any interested user). After that, if that didn't work I feel the next step would've been to speak with another Steward and ask them what they think and if they could have a word with Dmehus if they agree that he has done something wrong. Second of all, revoking a Steward is a major and serious step (and has never been done before) so I would have expected more proof and links to be provided rather than just one IRC log from yesterday, at least for users who do not actively monitor everything and cannot be expected to know what Dmehus does on a daily/regular basis. That's why I feel that regardless of the accusations, revocation is really the final option and alternatives should be explored before going to this extreme. Thirdly, I agree that there have been some mistakes, everyone makes mistakes but that these missteps are not enough to amount to a revocation and in my opinion the benefits of Dmehus being Steward and the good things he has done still far outweigh the few things that he has done wrong. I also can't really agree with the fact that the drama started after Dmehus was steward, the drama that is being referred to was alive before. Finally, the main premise seems to be the fact that you believe that Dmehus doesn't listen to your concerns and thinks that he's always right. If you believe that is the case I must go back to my original point which is: contact other Stewards and ask for a second opinion. Maybe attempts have been made privately, I don't know, but I'm not aware of any attempts made to discuss with other Stewards and get their opinion on any specific actions taken by Dmehus. I'd also like to point out that a lot of the issues with Dmehus seem to be centered around IRC and Discord, perhaps the proposals made in User:Void/Discord will alleviate some of those concerns. P.S.: As a minor note, this revocation request should've been done at either RfS or SN, as Community noticeboard isn't really meant for these type of requests. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I have somewhat BOLDly moved this here, in RfS. 12:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  my main concerns are based off-wiki, on platform moderation (IRC and Discord). I talked to dmehus, and addressed these concerns, which we came to a reasonable understanding, which in the long-term will hopefully resolve any and all concerns from the community. I would also like to add, off-wiki conduct should not result in on-wiki revocation. To expand on the off wiki concerns I also have, Dmehus does often pre-communicate platform changes to myself, Reception123, or other platform moderators, often pending a formal community discussion, however I still have the concerns mainly because we are not solely the community at large. There should not be changes, which I now realize, to platforms without a community discussion first. All-in-all Dmehus is not solely at fault here and is kind of taking the full blast of community displeasure in the undiscussed moderation actions.. Finally, I feel Zppix should have privately talked with Dmehus beforehand and attempted to resolve these issues. It's ironic that Zppix mentions drama on Miraheze, yet this very act is itself continuing the drama of which he complains about, and I personally don't like that one bit.
 * P.S. Dmehus' on-wiki steward work has been outstanding, and it'd be a loss to see him loose stewardship over a little bit of off-wiki conduct and drama. 08:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 1)  It saddens me greatly that Zppix would propose such a request to revoke someone's Steward rights, despite having made no attempt to resolve any concerns with me privately. As I've demonstrated, my Discord, IRC, and user talk page remain open. Platform moderation responsibilities that come with the Steward or even the Site Reliability Engineering by convention have been a main area of focus for me, and I will just reiterate what I have said before, multiple times, on Discord and in  on IRC, which is that I've always favoured some sort of community-appointed or -elected platform moderation role, not inherited by past conventions based on one's wiki groups. Any changes to platform moderation I've proposed with a limited number of platform moderators have always been designed to be interim measures pending a formal, full community discussion, which User:Void/Discord aims to do (it's still not ready to go live as there's still some additional amendments needed, but I do very much look forward to that discussion). Nevertheless, since the Discord and IRC platform moderation roles have never been key to me, and to be honest, I'm usually so busy on-wiki that others end up having to deal with "Music Troll" and the like, I'm actually going to request that John remove my   flags in  tomorrow, and once the Discord RfC goes live, I will not continue as a platform moderator. Dmehus (talk) 08:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  While Doug does have his faults, everyone does and he's learning. I'm not going to repeat what's being said too much by my colleagues above but I don't think revoking Steward is appropiate as I don't see any serious issues. My advice to Doug is to ensure he listens to feedback people give and not be too eager to put things in place if it might be appropiate to ask for feedback. Overall, I think Doug is doing fairly well though at a challenging role with a lot of responsibility.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  09:03, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  I have carefully read the three support comments as well as the introduction proposed by the nominator and have come to the conclusion that I cannot support this effort. My first argument against removal must unfortunately be an argument ad hominem. I do appreciate what Zppix has done for Miraheze as a volunteer but it is impossible for anyone to ignore that four months ago in November Zppix got his Global Sysop rights revoked. Looking at the reasons expressed there and the comments I have to say there is an ironic tone for this very request which seems to accuse Dmehus of doing things not dissimilar from what Zppix was accused of and which were the reason for him being removed. For example, Zppix in his opening statement states that "I believe the steward has just given him too much power and its sadly turn his behaviour for the worse." In my view that can be perfectly applied to the revocation of Zppix as well since two of the reasons exposed were "Feeling as though he is not limited by the policy to which he is bound by; and, Feeling like he is not accountable to stewards". In these cirumsctances the saying the pot calls the kettle black comes to my mind. I do not mean any offense or harm to Zppix but by beginning this process it could very likely be expected by Zppix that his own behavior might be evaluated and if it was not expected there may be a lack of self reflection involved. Next I will turn to the actual accusations made against Dmehus. Many good points have been made by the other users who opposed already, one which Zppix has rebutted (the argument that no evidence has been given to us for review). I understand that many issues have been taking place on external platforms such as IRC and Discord. I believe that it is not fair for someone to say this evidence exists but that it cannot be shared, this would lead to hearsay and the community cannot be expected to simply believe somebody and vote for a revocation based on this. I do not also see why pinging users on IRC or Discord is consequential to the position of Steward and I am confused about the reasoning of the resignation of Zppix but it is difficult to think that it is only because of Dmehus, one person. In conclusion I have myself done some research and observed over time and while there were some actions by Dmehus that I cannot say I agreed with (the report extension issue that is cited, other more minor issues) I do not think that these things are enough to revoke a Steward (who was elected by the community). Without evidence I can unfortunately not take the other accusations into account as it would not be just. If there is a problem with Dmehus I think that it should be raised on his talk page, publicly so that it is not done in secrecy and everyone in the community can participate in the debate if they wish to do this. Moreover, if such a discussion should fail I believe it would be more appropriate to either discuss privately with another Steward (as it was mentioned above) or begin a discussion on the Community Noticeboard before taking the final step of removal. DeeM28 (talk) 12:31, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I never said that my resignation was purely because of him... yes it was part of, but theres more to it then that. The reason I brought up the pinging was to give an example more of IDHT. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 12:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Sorry, but I am opposing this, simply because not only do I find this extremely unnecessary, but I don't agree with this reason at all. While  has done some questionable stuff, he's always trying his best to make sure everyone is helping each other out. I really don't think it would even be necessary to revoke his Steward rights, considering how this request feels like it was made on impulse (considering how I have acted on impulse before, and not just here either). Besides that, is it really worth to try and demote him of those rights over small minor mistakes? Case in point, it's a rather foolish decision in spite of a revocation on behalf of Dmehus. In conclusion, I really can't support this and rightfully so, as it would feel more of a waste of not only my time, but yours as well. I rest my case. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 12:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Should we wrap this up as unsuccessful? I don't really see the point of keeping this up here any longer. I am going to request this request to be closed since this is pointless now. I feel as though this request isn't going to be fulfilled. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 19:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Why? Not everyone checking Meta every day. For example one week is fine in my opinion.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 20:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it should not be "wrapped up" after less than a day. There is no reason why it should not run for the standard time of 1 week. Naleksuh (talk) 20:32, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It's mostly because everyone else here except for 3 people agreed that this proposal isn't really worth it. Not to mention this request was made on impulse. I mean, what's the point of requesting it here, when the issues could've been resolved elsewhere? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 20:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I wasn't going to comment on this, but you do not know what caused me to create this.... you ASSUME its impluse, I created this because I am apart of the community and thus able to create a request as I feel theres a need to do so. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 20:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It's true that you have been a part of this community for nearly 4 years, according to your global account information here, but my main concern about this proposal was how little evidence was shown, judging by the links you gave. The logs I looked at on GitHub barely shows what you said. Case closed. (And keep in mind that I will not make anymore further replies on this thread, especially since this is the weirdest proposal I've ever read on here.) DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 20:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm perfectly fine if people want this up for a week, so let's just keep it just how it is for now, and let everyone else take their pick. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 20:46, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  I have had plenty on interaction with Dmehus on IRC, but never any negative interactions. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 16:59, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I have been thinking about this for a while. First of all, one thing that I do want to say is that I do have some problems/concerns with Dmehus, primarily with handling stuff off-wiki that should be on-wiki, involved violations, and privilege escalation in general. I have been trying to bring this issues up with him and work with him instead of against him. If it got really bad then I could be convinced to support. However, if you have a concern with something the user is doing off-wiki then you can propose off-wiki action. Both because the user is still clearly a net positive onwiki and due to the rather low volume/strength of what the nominator has shown, I don't see a need to remove the steward permissions at this time. As always there are no final decisions on anything. Naleksuh (talk) 17:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  In my eyes, you seem to have made a reason because you want to take away Doug's authority. And Doug helped me a lot. What's more, he hasn't voted against the stewardship above. Also, I feel that the restrictions below are a mess when this request is not passed.-- 01:28, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  I don't really see much point on this here. Most of the things mentioned could be resolved privately, IMHO. Everyone has their faults, but everything can be resolved without drama.  &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 01:36, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  I believe that instead of trying to demote him you should be trying to help be a guide. I know stewardship is a big deal and all, but we are all human at the end of the day. Stewardship from my understanding also takes quite a bit of knowledge and experience...which I believe he indeed possesses. While I see there were some things that were quite controversial...I don't believe demotion is always the answer. If he gets mentored by another user I believe he should pull through these issues.  Hypercane  (  talk ) 01:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Commments

 * 1) It has been mentioned a lack of evidence, part of the reasoning behind that is that the evidence I would have are from private channels that are covered by NDA or some other non-public understanding between its members. I would like to address the claims of me not trying to talk to Doug first, this is simply false, I have on numerous occasions have had to ask Doug, to make sure he discusses when he makes a change to something (I.E when he reverts an administrative action on wiki), then he continues to later make changes once again without discussing it. While he may discuss somethings, he fails to discuss things, sometimes major things, such as enabling the Report ext on Meta without community consensus. I would like to also make it clear that this request is not sole-ly based on the reason for my resignation from Sysadmin, this is based on my observations from his appointment to current time. To further add evidence, he excessively pings users on IRC/discord because his refusal to use pastes, after being asked to please do so. (Evidence will be posted ASAP). When determining consensus, he seems to also assume silence means support, which on the first piece of evidence will demonstrate 1 instance of such. Don’t get me wrong, Doug is helpful, but I just think steward may of been too soon. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 10:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) May I please ask why some diffs related to this request were suppressed? Thanks. 12:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) *It looks like someone edited logged out or had an inappropriate username. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  12:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) **I see. Thank you. 12:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Another somewhat controversial question (this one is for Zppix) before I share my thoughts: where did you get the IRC logs? # miraheze-ops is an NDA-protected IRC channel. You should not have access to this since your resignation. And even if you have access, you should not share them somewhere public like GitHub Gist. I believe this is illegal. 12:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) *It's not +i or NDA protected but the fair point is you shouldn't be publishing logs without consent of all parties involved which I'm gonna assume wasn't given. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  13:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) ** Its a public channel, anyone could of seen those messages themselves. Theres nothing in the topic saying I cannot public log. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 13:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) **Oh, okay. Zppix also just mentioned that on Discord. 13:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) ***For transparency and to erase all doubt, the channel will also be publicly logged in the future. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 13:12, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) Abstain. Dmehus annoys me.  He edits my posts, he interposes himself into virtually every conversation here, and on one occasion when I created an RfC that seemed to be where the decision was heading, he deleted it in favor of more conversation.  I have mostly stayed on the rfobasic wiki and off Meta for the four months since then, and indeed was unaware that he had made Steward.  His tendency to manage conversations reminds me of Amanda trying to dictate the rules for her own disciplinary proceeding so as to favor herself.  However, I know nothing about the issues raised in this section, would be shocked if Stewardship led to such a drastic personality transformation and if group sentiment changed so quickly since his elevation, and sympathize with the lack of attempts to resolve problems informally.   23:25 21-Feb-2021 23:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 11)  All I can say here is that I have been noticing an argument between Zppix and, and 1 thing I must say here (and no, I'm not replying to that thread between him or Doug here) is that I feel like I'm watching little kids arguing on the playground. Seriously, the arguments started from this thread, and has only gotten worse from there. Not only do I find Zppix's constant response to Doug's reply a little over unnecessary, but is also another form of disruption from both sides equally. I don't see the reason to even continue this pointless fight. Both of them have already made their arguments loud and clear, and both of them couldn't be anymore clearer than how they have described their case. At this rate, I'm more than tempted to prevent this from escalating. Now, both of you have already reached the end of your ropes, and alright made your points, and all I can see from here is bitter rivalry between you 2. I see no reason to continue this. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Revocation requests are not an appropriate place to initiate secondary requests conditional on a revocation request failing. Such proposals are better placed to be started after a revocation request closes and in a more broad location. John (talk) 17:03, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Activity restrictions
In the event revocation does not pass, I propose we restrict Doug from the following: These restrictions would last at least 30 calendar days, but can be extended by community, or other stewards if needed. Appeal can be done after 10 calendar days, which the community could vote on. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 16:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Changing any wiki's extensions without clear community consensus (unless required for security/legal purposes)
 * Changing any permissions/layouts of official off-wiki communication platforms without clear public consensus (except where doing so would violate an NDA)


 * There's no pattern of incidents relating to point 1. It's one incident and I doubt Doug will be making such a big change again any time soon. The second one wasn't actually carried out by Doug, he just requested it to my knowledge. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  16:30, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I provided in my statement above when creating this IRC logs with evidence that would state otherwise. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 16:31, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Your logs don't say otherwise though. He didn't force the change. He made a suggestion and asked someone to carry it out who did. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  16:33, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * With respect, this feels like an out of process request. For one thing, instead of raising concerns with Stewards, as others have both articulated and suggested above, you've continued to propose restrictions and other alternate proposals. For another matter, some extensions are enabled by Stewards without discussion; this is mainly due to a lack of clarity and codification in the guidelines related to what does and does not require a discussion. A better strategy would be to assist in codifying said guidelines. Finally, for another matter, that is moot, since I've resigned as an  in  on IRC and on Discord following the RfC. Dmehus (talk) 16:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Guidelines are called guidelines for a reason, just because its not there, doesn't mean it should happen. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 16:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is? My point is that there is a lack of clarity in terms of what extensions require a discussion and what do not. One thought Reception123 had in a related discussion at Administrators' noticeboard is that if it proposes to change the workflow of Meta user groups, then it should have a discussion. Similarly, I've likewise suggested that if it proposes to add or otherwise change either the user rights or user groups of local Meta user groups, then it should have a discussion. These are the sort of things everyone could assist in codifying, which is all I'm saying. Dmehus (talk) 16:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * 1) This is silly. Either an editor can be trusted with Steward permissions or they cannot. Partial restrictions like this with a permission like Steward are not a good idea. Naleksuh (talk) 16:42, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  I hate to say this, but this is pretty much a losing battle at this point. Even if this was to pass, it wouldn't make a difference, no matter how much you look at it. While Zppix has done some good things around here, this 2nd proposal really takes away credibility from both parties, and at what cost? This makes no sense to me, and I don't really get the point of this 2nd proposal. Wouldn't that pose a problem on both sides? Sorry to say, but I strongly oppose this decision no matter how many times we all look at it. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 16:58, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

YellowFrogger's Request for Stewardship

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * per this diff. Non-Steward closure 04:02, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

User: YellowFrogger ( contributions &bull; CA &bull; blocks log &bull; rights log &bull; global rights log )

Reasoning for request
See the tool and check for a suspicious user

Additional comments given by user (if any)
HI

You could put me as  'CheckUser'  on, I have more than 5,000 editions and 30 days of activity there, here on META too, so I don't edit here.

✔️I declare that I do this in good faith. And I know the policies and terms of use for wikis - YellowFrogger ( talk) 01:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

MrJaroslavik's Request for Stewardship

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Has been open for a month and minimum of 20 comments has not been reached. John (talk) 18:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

User: MrJaroslavik ( contributions &bull; CA &bull; blocks log &bull; rights log &bull; global rights log )

Reasoning for request
Hello everyone, i am MrJaroslavik (same username on WMF). I am active on Miraheze since June 2020 as wiki creator and administrator on Meta. I was elected as Global Sysop back in August 2020. More about me on my userpage. Since my appointment i had done some global (b)locks, mainly spam/vandalism only or proxy blocks for IPs. I mainly handle requests from #miraheze-cvt channel (when i am online, my reply is usually instant). But sometimes there are request that needs supression of username or CU. In last month was on Meta some vandal attacks, where i could use CU tool. So generally steward permissions would be helpful sometimes. Ideally i would had wait if someone will request stewardship and request myself after about year, but sadly i don't see someone who considering it :/. I think there should be more stewards for better control, to avoid "one user's decisions" in some cases and also after abolishment of CoCC. Someone of you may know I have "own" strict rules about COI and asking when i am not sure. You may ask "Why you not doing stewards tasks, for example Requests for Adoptions?" My reply is simple - I don't usually do tasks for which I am not elected. I think it's logical. - I don't want have this application so long, so please ask me if you have questions and i will reply. It's up to you now. Thanks for consideration.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 20:33, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Additional comments given by user (if any)
As like in RfGS - If this my application will not be successful, I will be happy for anyone who will request stewardship.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 20:33, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Reply to I did't called someone as "undignified". I called that situation and this reply (transfer of the problem to the personal level) as "undignified". That are 2 meanings, at least in my native language.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 15:17, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * 1)  I'm a little bit concerned that this might be borderline hat-collecting, and too early for him. If you have any criticism to why I said this, please feel free to respond to your heart's content. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 13:51, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Didn't he want to get his global rights revoked? InspecterAbdel (NLW) 14:38, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) * Yes, and it was completely about less than 48 hours ago, if I'm not mistaken. I was very sad to hear of what he and R4356th had to go through. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 14:42, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) ** Do you wish to withdraw based on that? ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  17:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  I think this is a little too early for MrJaroslavik but otherwise I have no concerns. He is trusted enough and I think is experienced enough considering his global group membership on WMF wikis.  13:09, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  You have always appeared to be a reasonable user in my eyes. I have no issues. --GondorChicken (talk) 09:57, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , if he still wants stewardship, this guy is reasonable, even when he tried to revoke Dmehus's rights, which I'm against (agaisnt the revocation of Dmehus's stewardship).

Oppose

 * 1)   Sorry, but this could be a bit too soon (at least to me it is). DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 21:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  My habitual disclaimer: regardless of the observations and comments I present below I think that you have done a good job as Global Sysop and Meta administrator and my hope is that the outcome of this RfC or my vote does not discourage you to continue functioning in these roles. I have balanced the arguments for and against and have come to the conclusion that at this point I am unable to support. Before I begin I agree and understand that it is difficult for a candidate to be able to show that they have what it takes to be Steward. To begin I think that it is important to look at the wider role of Steward which is not only to combat wiki vandalism but also to work with communities and to communcicate. MrJarsolavik notes that he does not do tasks that he was not elected for - I think that is pretty obvious and I do not see who could demand such a thing. What I think would be useful is if MrJaroslavik would be more implicated in threads on the Stewards' noticeboard and Community noticeboard. Not doing Steward tasks evidently but helping out wherever it is possible without using the tools that a Steward posesses. I do not personally believe that being a Global Sysop for a period of time automatically means that someone can become Steward, I think that there has to be something more for that. My second point is that regretfully I have observed that recently MrJaroslavik has been (in my humble opinion) discourteous, notably calling someone else "undignified" among other things that I do not need to list. Everyone is entitled to their views, but I think it is important for Stewards to not hold grudges, to be open-minded and to adopt civil and considerate language, as in a way they represent the entire project. In conclusion, as far as I am concerned if the observations I make above are addressed I would be open to reconsidering my position if another Request for Stewardship comes up at a later date. DeeM28 (talk) 14:35, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  I hold the same concerns as DeeM28 above.  17:49, 7 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

Ugochimobi's Request for Stewardship
 'Please be aware of Canvassing policies before voting. Any vote made on the request of a candidate without disclosure may be dismissed.' User: Ugochimobi ( contributions &bull; CA &bull; blocks log &bull; rights log &bull; global rights log )

Reasoning for request
Hi there, I am requesting the Steward rights because of so many reasons, which I'm going to state concisely below. 1) We currently have 3 stewards on Miraheze which seem a bit low, 1 of which is an SRE member at the same time, while 1 of which has been the most active Steward in the past months until recently. We are all volunteers that also have other things doing, that's a very understandable fact, But It was recently that Doug was not as active as usual that's when we started having huge steward backlogs, requests for steward intervention, and all of that. 2) Another important thing is that Miraheze isn't growing as fast as most of us want it, We have a very good Infrastructure and MediaWiki team who are working tirelessly at the backend to giving a perfect frontend, But we lack modernization in terms of community organization, We need new things every day to keep our community active and functioning, You see Wikimedia? Wikimedia can never lose community members any day because of the new things they adopt every time and this is growing the community much faster than you can think. 3) I have so many ideas in my mind that I know when introduced to Miraheze, It'll not only keep our community together but make us grow faster than we can ever think of and by so doing, making Mirahezians comfortable with introducing Miraheze to their friends. 4) Our current stewards don't chat with the community like they ought to, I am a very open person that chats with the community every single time, ever since I was given the Global Interwiki Administrators right I have seen more reasons why I should be closer to the community because of the potentials I have personally and since then I didn't see the Interwiki admin role as a role to show-off or whatever, I saw it has an opportunity to help as many wikis as possible. I have also handled a bunch of Interwiki Requests across the Miraheze globe.

5) As a matter of fact, I've helped so many wikis, I've so many wiki founders understand the Content policy of Miraheze and I've found out that Coaching community members to abide by our codes of conduct may be a bit more challenging than handling the Stewardship of a role.

Let's fill the gap existing in the circle of stewards together So that, who is a steward and also an SRE member will not find being a steward very stressful and we also hope Doug comes back fully as I'd personally be glad. 6) I totally understand that it's a community, not a podium. For me, Community implies acting selflessly and giving/rendering services generously - resources, perspectives, information, ideas. I always think about the spectrum of topics that might interest members. I've also created a mind map to help push my thinking in new ways. We need more stewards to clear the backlog of stewards, Let's have a tight and organized community, Let's make everyone comfortable using Miraheze, Let's come together in unity to make Miraheze LTD. great both as a wiki farm and as a company.

I am very active in the Miraheze IRC/Discord servers, I am also active on the Community noticeboard, the Stewards' noticeboard amongst others. Lastly, I understand every single aspect of the Codes of conduct, S|Stewardship guidelines, Terms of Use, Privacy Policies, Content policies and so many others. Ugochimobi (talk) 16:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Additional comments given by user (if any)
Thank you soo much for reading the above text, It isn't easy reading such a long text you know. I await your opinion. Ugochimobi (talk) 16:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Questions for candidate
I have just a few questions for you, and please answer them with honesty. I await your response. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 16:47, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) What are your plans when you successfully become a Steward?
 * 2) Do you promise to not reveal ANY personal information when doing a CheckUser on suspicious characters, and long-term abusers?
 * 3) What would you do if someone vandalizes multiple wikis and no other Stewards are around to deal with them?


 * I really appreciate your question.
 * So many plans which includes, Introducing new community-like things like Events (on-wiki and off-line, like real life), Edit Milestones (with badges like "This user has 5000 Global Edits and deserves to display this badge/top-icon on their profile), and so many other features I know for sure will do us great good.
 * I cannot reveal any personal information of a user whether a long-term abuser or not. That's part of the CheckUser policies
 * I'd definitely handle the vandalism scenario myself If it's beyond the scope of a Global Sysop.
 * Thanks very much. Ugochimobi (talk) 17:08, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Please let it be noted on record that a private accusation of canvassing has been made. ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  15:31, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, so my unspoken assumption was correct. But it's logic. It's surprising how many new Meta users voted...--MrJaroslavik (talk) 15:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  Oh yeah, absolutely. And if I can recall, Void did say that anybody could apply for Stewardship at any time, so of course it does make sense in a way. You seem to be the most active member on both here and Discord too. I definitely wouldn't have a problem with this either. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 16:44, 29 July 2021 (UTC)  Striked my vote and will move to Oppose instead. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 15:48, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your truthfulness. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  I concur with DarkMatterMan4500, you are an extremely helpful user and I would absolutely love to see you as a Steward. Your help on Discord is phenomenal and I think we could definitely use another Steward, especially since all our Steward at the moment are overworked.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 16:53, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Of a truth, I can't see someone that needs help and ignore, thanks very much. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Seize the day. Miraheze needs a hand and where I've bungled bits of CSS and other technical details, Ugo's been there to help. So in addition to basic activity, clear participation in the chats and noticeboards and an apparent good nature, he's technically able and I'm sure he'd be able to handle the Steward's toolkit safely. It's up to standing Stewards if they agree with that, of course. --Raidarr (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your kind words. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:40, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) He helped me when I worked over my own Miraheze and he know much about Wikicode. With him as Steward using Miraheze and asking for help will be great! Of course I have some afraids but according to what he is doing he will be a good person at this position. It's an excellent choice and acceptable outcome. CreationKeeper (talk) (contribs) 21:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your sincere support. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:41, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)   Small_Pig_reporter (talk)  4:40, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  CarI (talk) 05:18, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Literally the most helpful guy I've met during my time establishing my Miraheze wiki (yet). Helped me a lot when I struggled to get my wiki to function. I wouldn't even cast an opposition vote, in fact if there's something higher than "Strongest support" I'd definitely pick that! Hika (talk) 08:29, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  Nussun (talk) 08:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  Okay, so I've read every supportive and opposing comment, now I do have to say that however I agree with some part of the opposals made, a lot is illogical. **Now to state the illogical:** first, the supposed mention of a Steward Tool, I haven't seen any mention of that in the appeal nor any comments made by Ugochimobi. Second, the age of their account proves nothing towards their skill level making that statement totally unviable, I could for example have an account which is 10 years old and still know **nothing** about editting only because I'm a commoner on Miraheze. I've seen people come and go in other communities starting with 0 experience, surpassing me in skill and experience in only 3 months time even though I have **2 years of experience**. Age of an account just doesn't prove anything, and Ugochimobi on the contrary has proven their skillset of sourcecoding, and communication withing the community. We should not be taking them for granted and promote them as long as their activity and good work keeps showing. They deserve it. CrossKnight07 (talk) 10:56, 30 July 2021 (UTC+1)
 * 6)  – Since I joined, I have been thinking that we need more stewards to assist in clearing out the stewards' backlog because, in most of the occasions, I have only seen one Steward responding to the requests, the other two are doing the good work as SRE members. And yes, Ugochimobi has been active and involved in the movement, helping users at the Community and Stewards' noticeboard and on the Discord, where he has responded to a number of interwiki requests. The issues raised by those who opposed, didn't convince me to oppose based on their comments. So, IMHO Chimobi will be a good addition to the team. Good luck! :-) ~ Mazzaz (talk)  13:45, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  First of all like I always say please do not be discouraged by my vote to continue volunteering, I think you are doing a great job as a volunteer. I would to first mention that just because the current Stewards are inactive that does not mean that we should lower our standards and support someone that we would not support if Stewards were active (this is a general observation not particular to this request). My main reason for not supporting this request is that overall I think it is too early and Ugochimobi has not yet demonstrated that he or she would be a capable Steward and have use for the tools. I understand that Ugochimobi has helped numerous users on Discord and has been very active but that is not really enough to demonstrate that someone has the capability to be Steward because otherwise many users would be qualified for this position and all someone would have to do in order to run for Steward is be helpful and nice to people. It also concerned me that in response to DarkMatterMan4500's question Ugochimobi's "plans" for being Steward they only listed things that he or she can do without having any tools at all. Helping out does not need extra tools or a 'label'. Next Ugohimobi talks a lot about helping users and communities which is very good of course but an issue for me is that Ugochimobi does not make a lot of mentions of Steward tools and how these tools would be useful for them. I understand that it is hard to demonstrate that you have what it takes to be Steward and that is why I would suggest trying to do more countervandalism related work and maybe becoming Global Sysop before so you can demonstrate to us that you are able to use the tools correctly. Finally I also hesitate to support this because of the short time period that you have been around (less than 4 months on Meta). Therefore I feel like there is a lot of potential but that this request is premature and I would be willing to support at a later time if I see continuing positive things that demonstrate your capability for the role. Good luck! --DeeM28 (talk) 17:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your observation, But firstly, I didn't mention any steward tool in my request or in my answer to DarkMatterMan4500 doesn't mean I can not handle one. For sure I can handle any steward tool without causing any chaos or the like. Secondly, we have fewer stewards currently isn't the only reason I stated in my request, so many others that are gonna help us all, and I'm sure no one has that type of Idea currently. Thirdly, I am an experienced user, TBH I can practically solve any on-wiki problem, except it requires a typical level of codes that I can't handle, My account is 5 months old but My experience using MediaWiki is over 10 years old, I can assure you that. I've also done several counter-vandalism works on local wikis across Miraheze even though I am not a Global Sysop.
 * I think most users don't attempt to do tasks because they're not given the position, users won't report vandalism when they find one because they'd say "I'm not a global sysop, so why should I", They won't help the community when they find lags because they're not Stewards. But I don't do that, I don't care if I am not a GS or Steward.
 * I'm sure I could help other users to be experienced and then in the future we can have more stewards and GS.
 * Thanks very much. Ugochimobi (talk) 18:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * (non-DeeM28 comment) "I didn't mention any steward tool..." - You've applied for steward permission and used this as reasoning.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 18:10, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't mention anything related to the Steward tool on my request either. Thanks :-) Ugochimobi (talk) 18:14, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) I wanted comment on same way as Dee, but he was faster, so my short comment: We need more stewards, but 1) You account is 5 months old, 2) You don't need most expensive permissions for community things you mentioned, 3) question about revealing of PII should be clear without some question, 4) Being active on Discord doesn't mean you are qualified to become steward, 5) Let's try apply for GS or sysop on Meta firstly,--MrJaroslavik (talk) 18:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Being active on Discord/IRC is the same as being active in the community brother. Stewards aren't meant to be editing on meta only are they? No, stewards ought to be global-wise, helping the global community, friendly, etc. Ugochimobi (talk) 18:19, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  i think he is still  kind of new plus i would like to see them with lower ranks and work up before considering them for this advanced permission. --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 14:47, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Like I've always said, I am practically not new in any way. I don't want to start repeating how experienced I am using the MediaWiki software, how helpful I am in the community, and How useful I am and would be whether I am given the Steward role. One important thing is, If it's possible to be able to perform the steward role and not carrying the steward flag, I'd even prefer it that way, But no, It has to be community opened. You really cannot imagine seeing the currently stewards' backlog and still oppose. Ugochimobi (talk) 15:00, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm possibly willing to reconsider, I really see you putting a good effort into you're work its just I would also find it off to give someone steward who has only been around at miraheze for less then 5 months I do not want this to have any effect on my vote at all I Honestly never gotten to really know you much ether and  I do think being active within miraheze should be what has an effect on this rank not including  discord and irc I know it would also seem off of me to just vote oppose when i  personally have not looked at you're past edits and experience and therefore it was kind of off of me to do however I will possibly reconsider in a future request. however on the bright side i am willing to support possibly global syosp at the moment. Cocopuff2018 (talk) 15:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Based on what I have seen, I have 0 other choice. This candidate has aggressively canvassed for votes in private venues.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  15:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  per the above points. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 15:41, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  per the canvassing. — Arcversin (talk) 15:48, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  Wiki canvassing is unacceptable, I changed my vote to oppose after learning about the issue. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 15:50, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ugochimobi (talk) 16:04, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of John for Stewardship

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * There is clear consensus here that John is both trusted and competent for the  bit. The main concern expressed has been John's lack of recent on-wiki activity, which even the nominator and the nominee acknowledge. That being said, we must remember that we're all volunteers here, and it is not necessarily reasonable that all requests requiring Steward attention be actioned within hours of the request being placed. As well, even though it's expected John's work as the Engineering Manager (Infrastructure) will likely comprise a majority of his available Miraheze users, there are other members of the Steward team, so it won't fall on John to action all Steward requests nor will he feel obliged to reduce his SRE volunteer hours significantly at the expense of Steward volunteerism. In short, the relative inactivity concern is a valid one, but a significantly valid one. Each Steward contributes to the extent they are able to, some more than others, and that's okay. There was one abstaining comment raised, but no argument was specified for not wanting to bring up past drama, which was good but also interesting in that if one doesn't want to bring up past drama, why even mention it? Two other users mentioned concerns that John fails to assume good faith, but didn't provide details when challenged by other users. Overall, clear consensus for promotion. Welcome back! Dmehus (talk) 17:47, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

User: John ( contributions &bull; CA &bull; blocks log &bull; rights log &bull; global rights log )

Reasoning for request
I believe there is a strongly demonstrated need for an additional Steward. Firstly and prominently, the Requests for adoption process has fallen behind, and is only irregularly maintained by one Steward who, while very good when he is there, is unable to keep up to the extent wikis have been known to be deleted before requests are addressed. CVT finds itself behind as the collective Stewards and GS must chug through a backlog of activities on an increasingly busy platform; current Stewards and one GS also juggle with many engagements that split their already limited time, and the other GS is simply not active enough to be a regular figure for this task. I've heard that the turnaround time for inquiries to Stewards by mail and other methods can reach weeks. The Stewards noticeboard turnaround for Steward response needs to be improved. Aside from that I believe Miraheze deserves an additional set of eyes and judgement at a community management level so issues can be resolved in a timely manner by multiple engaged and trusted Stewards, and offer the chance for consensus among Stewards with multiple active at one time instead of the recent condition where they hardly overlap at all and have hardly any collegues to turn to in their field.

John requires little introduction as the co-founder of Miraheze itself and an incredibly helpful sysadmin who has also held the title of Steward multiple times and done well in each instance; he has gracefully retired in the previous instances and was not removed for ill behavior that I know of. He has expressed an interest in resuming this position (and perhaps others) via IRC if someone nominated him, and so I give him the chance by doing just that. I believe he'd accept soon after seeing this along with whatever he wishes to add. His meta activity is admittedly weak at a community participation level as of late, but it seems to me he has kept a close eye from a sysadmin perspective (also seen in the contributions) and his other advantages justify him as a necessary and competent set of hands. In his sysadmin capacity that I've watched through Meta and Discord I think he is more than qualified in temperment and familiarity with policy as of now (I doubt the downtime from this role has made him rusty). I let the Meta community decide if it agrees. --Raidarr (talk) 14:16, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this, I believe the above suitably summarises need and my history. I will be following this request up shortly with a request to regain my sysop and bureaucrat permissions on this wiki as well. Therefore, I accept this nomination. John (talk) 14:49, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * With regards to the inactivity concern being raised - I will admit my editing activity isn't the best on Meta or globally - it has not been for the duration of Miraheze as a whole, averaging only 700 edits a year, or 60 edits a month. However, my activity as a Steward has consistently been high, my activity in resolving requests via noticeboard and emails has always been high, my handling of renames and RfCs have always been consistent. I have always made tough decisions and showed leadership when the community has needed - I have preserved, protected and fought for the communities independence since day one. None of this is being considered by the community at large - just my editing activity. There is a severe lack of Stewards currently, with a lot of requests going unactioned for weeks, or even months. One such example would be the Community Directors RfC I started which, even though it was a clear cut consensus - took five months to close. The existing RfCs also show this rather well in that one is currently approaching 5 months without any Steward activity on it. SN shows this as well in recent times with some requests taking weeks for a response - emails I doubt are doing much better on average as well. The point of this request was to support the community by stepping back up to provide my 6 years experience to ensure things come back to running smoothly and quickly. Since the number of opposes is approaching the 80% mark, I simply ask before opposing per activity that you to consider one thing - is my current level of activity different from when I was actively resolving steward matters and supporting the community? Is my currently editing level really a hinderance to my ability to effectively be a Steward? If yes, I will withdraw this if asked. John (talk) 15:26, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No, no. You still have what it takes. I believe there's more than enough coverage here, as there are a lot of supportive votes (including mine of course), saying how confident you are here. Withdrawing it would likely cause an issue with everybody supporting your Stewardship "re-election". DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 20:50, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * 1)  About keeping him as a bureaucrat I don't know, but if these CentralNotices are annoying it's pure fact. YellowFrogger (✉ Talk  ✐ Edits )</b> 00:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What is the relevance of the CentralNotices to keeping him as bureaucrat? The way notices work could certainly improve though, both in writing and technical function. --Raidarr (talk) 10:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we could find one particular improvement in proposal 6 of this RfC, as in making use of campaign types. Then this section of user preferences could have some use. K599 (talk) 15:14, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Another improvement could be this proposal for giving a link to translate central notices, because I'd prefer if people had an easy way of finding where to translate central notices. There's also this proposal for ensuring that central notices last as long as the discussion is open, because I'd find it strange to stop showing a notice for a discussion that's still open for participation. K599 (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Well, I believe we have a clear winner here., you're winner! (In other words, I am seeing a lot more supports than opposes.) What do we do from here now? --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 23:08, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Calling the vote is the discretion of an existing Steward, following a review of the rationale involved, if all parties are valid and when it's determined any potential issues are resolved. For my part I doubt anything new will come up and between Discord and here I have not seen the unexplained issues become explained. --Raidarr (talk) 23:33, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't feel like it's necessary for non-Steward users to "proclaim" someone to be a "winner" and give their opinion of consensus, rather it should just be left for Stewards to close the request and decide. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:37, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)   as proposer. --Raidarr (talk) 14:16, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support extended because to be frank, I took a shot making the nomination in part out of a desire to just give him a shot without too much familiarity with the user. I knew he had extensive background but was less familiar with his operations and activity. Discussion has been held on Discord regarding the opposition points, which boil down to two things; issues with his approach and issues with his activity. The approach issues I consider more severe, yet found nothing to justify them; one oppose raises them without background, the second admitted to just following along and otherwise I have little to go on. If vagueness is the argument against him, then given the mirror of clear support from many established users (including various SRE and long term administratively involved users) and from members of various influential communities on Miraheze I think we have the answer. Secondly, while I'd like to see a more community involved Steward in time, the activity argument does falter when a) it matches or outright beats other global operatives who in good standing and b) it's not required at a noticeboard or informal conversation level so long as he is responsive and accountable for his actions and is able to perform his duties to lighten the load on other Stewards (ie, responding to Steward-required noticeboard inquiries, adoptions, RfC closures...) which I believe he would. Appointing John does not harm the chance of reaching the goal I mentioned and in the meantime seems like it can only help. --Raidarr (talk) 08:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Raidarr has given a great introduction. I'm glad to see John back and have no doubt that he'll continue picking up where he left up and doing the great things he's brought to the community over the last 6 years.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  15:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Yes, we definitely need him back on the team. Nearly 5 months have gone by, and it just doesn't feel the same without him being a Steward. From June 14th and onwards, the Steward head count has dropped to 3 so drastically, mainly from him resigning as a Steward. Some of you may have been shocked that he would make such a significant change and see him resign from his position. Overall, my strongest support for him to regain his Steward powers again will still hold up. And, I really hope you regain that right again. :) --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 10:12, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  John has always fought for the community's role and during his previous times as Steward he has been active and responsive to requests. I have no doubt that if elected John will do a great job again and help with the current backlog of requests. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 20:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  Sounds good to me! TigerBlazer (talk) 21:11, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  While I agree his Meta activity levels are not very high, I also agree that as a sysadmin, he's very active and regularly around at #miraheze-sre. With his long background and lengthy experience, I have no problem voting in favor of him becoming a Steward.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:19, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  I think Miraheze needs more Stewards and John knows the intricacies of the steward role.--Avengium (talk) 21:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  Same as Avengium.--アンジェロ先輩 (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Isn't it obvious? --Hispano76 (talk) 22:12, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  Sounds fantastic for my part! King Dice (talk) 22:43, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 10)  for all reasons mentioned previously.  &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 22:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 11)  I can totally see him as a steward for the aforementioned reasoning. <span style="background:linear-gradient(90deg,crimson,indigo, #ADD8E6); -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">Marxo Grouch  (talk) 00:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 12)  Going back to my ability to vote, I don't understand how one of the project's founders loses his bureaucratic rights, if he created it all. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 06:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It was actually who founded Miraheze, not just John. John co-founded it, but isn't the founder like southparkfan is, however. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 09:19, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Southparkfan is also a co-founder, he didn’t ‘found’ Miraheze by himself. John (talk) 09:36, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No wonder I got confused there. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 10:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Well, idk, but, sounds intresting so, ok
 * 2)  --MdsShakil (talk) 07:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  I don't follow meta too often, but come on, he's literally the cofounder of Miraheze! The7Guy (talk) 13:50, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  John has always been upfront in his dealings with us at All The Tropes. My only concern is whether he can handle backend support and being a Steward at the same time, but that's his call to make. --Robkelk (talk) 17:12, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  He was a great and active enough steward when he was one. Plus we really need another Steward. John has always been a community-first advocate, and was the main reason (or at least in my mind) that SRE got better at community engagement. Since his return, SRE even has Agent as Community Engagement Specialist, which at least as far as I know was John's idea to even establish the position, of course it had to be discussed amongst others but it was John's idea behind the position. This does show that he is enough of a trusted member of the community and active enough on Miraheze as a whole, for Stewardship. I've had my issues with him before, mainly after his most recent resignation from SRE, but have learned even then, everything he did was for the good of the community. I am glad he's back now. This request has my full support. I'd also like to note some of the oppositions below, claiming John to be "inactive" are hardly active themselves and are likely just voting based on other's point of view. Anyone's vote should be their own not just what you see that others think. In fact, John's activity and availability is better than most of the current Stewards.  20:34, 4 November 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * You're not the only one who's excited for John's return. In fact, I believe brought this up on the  channel less than a week ago, in terms of Stewardships go. I'll bet you  might just be as happy as a lot of us here are. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 20:55, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  A new Steward is definitely necessary, and John is trustworthy enough to hold the task. VFDan (talk) 23:14, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  First I will address the more substantive part of the request. During his previous time as a Miraheze Steward John has in my opinion demonstrated that he has the skills required to hold the position. His closures of Requests for Comments and other interventions on Meta demonstrate that he is able to exercise judgement and make impartial (and difficult) decisions. There have as was pointed out also been some issues but as it was mentioned above I believe that everyone involved has learned from past mistakes and that everyone was doing what they thought was in the best interests of the community. Therefore as for qualifications I do not have any doubt that John has them. Secondly there is the question of activity which is what most of the opposes are based on. I believe that activity is certainly an extremely important issue for a Steward because the job does require them to be active. In this case I tend to agree that more could be done on the side of activity but at the same time it has to be admitted that there is not that much going on on Meta to allow for someone to be extremely active. Therefore because of John's previous record I am willing to make an exception and support this request regardless of the lesser activity and to trust that John will be active and responsive to requests as he was in the past when he was Steward. Especially with current Stewards being busy outside of Miraheze as well we cannot afford to turn down a new qualified Steward at this time. --DeeM28 (talk) 08:57, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  John is a fine human being. --Labster (talk) 16:25, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  Owen (talk) 18:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  Absolutely. — Arcversin (talk) 22:56, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  Pppery (talk) 04:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)   Anpang   Talk  07:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) leaning oppose per personal reasons I rather not bring up. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 17:09, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Insufficient information on his conflicts with other SREs, wouldn't want to generate factional struggle in the highest levels of Miraheze. --NimoStar (talk) 17:02, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  I feel like he (somewhat) fails at Assuming Good Faith, which is important for stewards. Bongo Cat (talk) 16:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What circumstances make you think so? --Raidarr (talk) 20:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe it is an important aspect of a vote to give details when making such accusations. I do not think it is fair to the candidate to accuse them of something and not provide proof of that unless of course the conduct is obvious or well known to the other members of the community. In this case I have looked at John's recent contributions and was not able to find any evidence of him not assuming good faith so it would be of assistance if you would provide a link to where this assuming bad faith has taken place; maybe I have missed something. DeeM28 (talk) 11:17, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  – While I agree, John has been helpful when he was a steward before, but I don't feel comfortable enough to support his candidacy now, given his lesser activity on meta and involvement in the community. --Magogre (talk)  02:04, 4 November 2021 (UTC)


 * 1)  I Don't feel he is active enough, i want to see him interact with the community more before a considering a vote --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 12:49, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * He's been more active on as of late, so what's that about him not interacting with the community more again? I'm rather confused here. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 12:53, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe there is a valid concern regarding his community activity on Meta (before and after this request began) and participation in channels outside of a purely SRE context (though I note he has made useful inputs in the general IRC relay). It's something he may wish to address to relieve the concerns. Pure activity in the SRE relay by your rationale is a) good for an SRE context but less so for the general community scope that a Steward applies to, and b) has difficulty standing up if it's only applicable to IRC as the scope of Stewardship and their general support to wikis should be much, much broader than the chat platforms that are ancillary to the purpose of Miraheze. It's not enough to flip my position, but a valid complaint I believe. Not everything can rely on what he has done previously, or just after/around the beginning of this request. --Raidarr (talk) 13:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * How active he is on the miraheze platform concerns me, i have nothing wrong with john at all but may i also mention i have seen some lack of assuming good faith mentioned above which also concerns me, and his active on meta is what i am referring to @DarkMatterMan4500 Cocopuff2018 (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. A reasonable concern. A reasonable concern that is absolutely valid. You're not wrong there at all, . DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 10:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Concern of activity and interaction with the community on miraheze (meta). I don’t feel he is active enough for being a steward. —-Matttest (talk) 13:22, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You're definitely not wrong there either. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 13:54, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You ping my name wrongly..., and I am not going to be a steward, so please don't compare the candidate and me. Matttest (talk) 06:40, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Per my comments in the support section as well as John's own statement, there are cases where being an active participant on meta and being trusted to get Steward duties done/correctly are not the same thing. I put emphasis on it down here, but at this point I think the concern's been reasonably addressed .--Raidarr (talk) 08:07, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? And by the way, I never mentioned anything about YOU being a Steward, but I somehow get your point. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 10:30, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) He's not really active enough. - Master Shake — Preceding unsigned comment added by Master Shake (talk • contribs)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section