Meta:Requests for permissions

YellowFrogger (Wiki creator)
Group: Wiki creator Reason: Hello everybody. If you don't know me or haven't seen my name in recent changes (which is difficult if you're inactive): I joined Miraheze in early October 2020, which at first was not interested in contributing to Meta. As there were many pages that lacked language translations, I contributed to several translations. I have seen that most wiki creators are inactive, and especially at dawn, where it takes up to 2 hours for a wiki to be accepted or declined. That aside, the good thing is that Miraheze has been gaining wiki creators lately, and, I now want to get on with it (volunteer). To learn more: My timezone is UTC-3, I have 27,300 global edits (23,000 on the my ownership wiki), and other contributions to my wikis from personal annotations, or voluntary contributions to other wikis, and I like to look at recent changes to dedicate my lovely time to see what's going on. I try my best to see what users are asking for in the CN or SN (if I'm not aware of the matter I ignore it for a steward/admin to rate) and make Miraheze better. I have a smattering of content policy, and if I don't memorize, I have time to reread the entire page. I also see the CoC and respect what is written there.

Discussion
Other users feel free to support/oppose/abstain from this RfP but please state your reasoning below.


 * 1)   Good candidate, well there are already lots of wiki creators but there's still some wiki requests that have a more than 2 hours delay between request creation and review. *realizes he's only been active recently* oh *turns vote to weak*  Anpang   Talk   Stuff  03:40, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  sadly per WP:NOTNOW. Have no doubt that you are a valued contributor and I thank you for your enthusiasm but 1 month of experience on Miraheze Meta is too little. The bulk of your edits began in October and has mainly consisted of translations. I would really like for you to at least wait another 2 months before requesting the bit as it does feel like hat-collecting for you to request the right so soon. Additionally, your "smattering" (meaning small) knowledge of the Content Policy does concern me as wiki creators must know the Content Policy like the back of their hand. On top of that, I strongly suggest you develop better communication patterns with fellow editors other than making abstract comments and telling an administrator to calm down as he was a "15 year old" without patience or vandalising articles to say Stewards are slow unlike Fandom staff when you experience a delay in response time. Should you resolve all of that, have no doubt you have my support in 2-3 months :)  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * In fact, I started contributing to Meta (by replying to CN and SN messages) in September (two months) if you roll my contributions down further. I have knowledge of wiki code (including modules, templates, etc.) and a medium knowledge of HTML and CSS (so my theme is modified a bit). As I stated, I read the content policy again and I will take what is written there. As for what you said about my vandalism, it was meant to be an opinion only, as it's warning you on the page that it's not official, and at that time the stewards were really quite inactive, which prompted me to write all of this. About what I told the teen user, I told him to just be calm, but I still consider him a good user. I will review my attitudes not to commit all of this again. Hope you change your mind after reading it. YellowFrogger (✉ Talk  ✐ Edits ) 04:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your commitment to watching your attitude but even so, I am concerned about your knowledge of the Content Policy. You should know it well before requesting wiki creator. Again, I strongly suggest reapplying in 2-3 months as I feel this is a WP:SNOW and WP:HATSHOP case sadly. Should you reapply in a few months, I will definitely consider giving you my strongest support as a valued contributor :) Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:23, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  There is not an easy way to say this especially given the typical wiki presumption of good faith, but I don't have a good feel on this one. There are rough edges in both English use and in approach to other users that must be ironed out. In particular and in slight response to another conversation, one thing I would like to see is the reasoning being given before, or instead of an extreme response like NOOOOOOOOOO or otherwise strongest opposes thrown against the crowd for no immediate reason. Frankly, I think there is a maturity and a convention/policy familiarity problem here which would only result in complications to the wiki creation system, not to mention the short period of time that lead to this request. --Raidarr (talk) 09:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You should be content with a wiki creator who speaks other languages. Miraheze does not have a standard for all its wiki creators to use English, not least because they are not obligated. And recently I've been trying to improve this second language, without using translate, for example. There are people who use fake accounts, and they get a second chance, and someone who responds normally with the impression that he's being rude, but he's not, ends up getting complicated because of that. I understand your placement, so actually, I take my time as well to reread the content policy and improve along with it. Didn't see the comment above? I review my attitudes about not committing all this again, but it seems you quoted that "I would be a complication to the wiki creation system" nonetheless. YellowFrogger (✉ Talk  ✐ Edits ) 13:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Growth is not an on/off switch; it takes time both to improve in practice and in image. Your improvements are commendable, but do not excuse weak points that I believe continue to exist and an unease that has only grown witnessing the various replies here. My position stands. Multiple languages are a bonus, not the deal maker. --Raidarr (talk) 18:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hahahahah, funny! YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 18:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I need you to solicit reasons from the Oppose other than Hat, Snow, the most sincere "NOT" in the world and blah blah. Linking to diffs of mistakes made by me to see if I can improve. Just like that. It's no use just a big text. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 19:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have not mentioned hat, snow or 'not', though I am not against assessing again in the future. When I am in front of a desktop I will, in good faith, break down what I consider problematic through your talk page if you wish. However, the trouble is complicated and cannot be made short in a way I think would sincerely help you. Singling out diffs only reflects part of a wider impression that even very skilled English writers would find tricky to break down. --Raidarr (talk) 20:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Per the above. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 12:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The quote above is an excuse to vote Oppose. As always here in Miraheze's Request for permissions, besides of course, rules imported from Wikipedia here, (like snow and hat collecting). Well, I'd rather vote controversial opposition than create a fake account and say it fooled me. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 12:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The issue has been resolved. I'm inclined to strongly oppose this. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 16:23, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @YellowFrogger, Keep in mind everyone has the right to vote, and express as they wish (Excuse or not), As mentioned above by Other's i would strongly advise trying again in a couple of months, And Withdrawing this.  Aside from all this  i  recommend that you Interact with the community more, and Continue  editing, without any Group....
 * FYI (Their is many ways to help out at meta and other communities without user rights)
 * Additionally the reason why an assumption of this being hat collecting is because your still Fairly new and of course i would agree its still early) Cocopuff2018 (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * "The issue is resolved", and a link again to a Wikipedia policy page (as usual importing rules from Wikipedia). The rule says: "Don't relive dead subjects". If so, this rule should also apply to what the Raidarr said above. Cheers. YellowFrogger</b> (✉ Talk </b> ✐ Edits </b>)</b> 18:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Everyone has the right to vote, at no time did I say that voting to oppose is wrong or I'm condemning the person for that, I just said that all the mentioned problems have already been resolved and that I won't even commit again, so there is little reason to vote to oppose. (Note: It's been two months since I've been editing Meta commonly). I don't even need to cite edits with community interaction, just see my contributions here on Meta and I commonly answer on CN and SN (of course, just about things I know, so I try to help beggars who ask for help on wiki code or something if a Steward doesn't respond first). Also, you have already asked for Wiki creator privileges, stating that we need more Wiki creators, but withdrew due to lack of time. So, what does it cost to vote for a volunteer who will devote some of their time to it? On Wikipedia's Hat Collection Rule page, it says: "When applying for stewardship or any other rights, you must demonstrate that you will actually use these tools to help improve Wikipedia. They should not be used ​​just as a means to yourself. displaying or stimulating someone's ego.", "is the process of gaining rights on Wikipedia (and other wikis) just to show off or to boost one's ego, rather than because you have any actual use for them." Are you claiming that I'm wanting to be a wiki creator for the sake of others, to stimulate egos? That I will have no use and no use at all? I came to Meta to contribute, and never thought about those Snow or Hat Collecting deals or what their page(s) says. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 18:31, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Trust me you're an awesome volunteer and hardworking too, but lets wait for a little while and request later on. It'll help you become more prepared and duly ready. per, 2 to 3 months time wouldn't hurt. Ugochimobi (talk) 19:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I was going to wait a bit before replying, but I decided to make my stance on this request now. While I do not edit the Meta that often, rather check out here multiple times a day to respond to any noticeboards that might need my input, I have noticed that you are a helpful user. However, I will agree with what the others have said by stating that while this is a good-faith request, your communication skills with other users are fairly problematic and can be incredibly confusing at times. To relate to that, as Raidarr mentioned, you have given some very extreme responses that frankly don't help in cases (Such as the "NOOOOOOO!" in this recent RFC). This also could be just me, but you also seem to get a little aggressive at times. I would recommend that you wait about a few more months or at the very least try to improve behavior before requesting this again. TigerBlazer (talk) 20:22, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) after behavior on discord and in this reques, I wouldnt even consider this request. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 01:08, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Haha you're so funny, I'll find a circus for you. Forgets. Seriously: it just doesn't make sense to vote to oppose this topic ja surrendered, and even quote "behavior at Discord, since I was respectful and didn't do any harm or say anything bad to any user". But forget. Health. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 01:24, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Bukkit (Wiki creator)
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 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * I can agree with YellowFrogger and DarkMatterMan, that it is still a bit too soon. I’ll probably be back with a request sometime within Feburary, or even later than that. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 18:58, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Group: Wiki creator Reason: Recently, I have been on Meta most of the time, and seeing the RC Logs, I can tell that some requests can take a while to get a response from a wiki creator (understandable, as we are all volunteers). I will be available for a lot more, due to logging into my main account (This account) on all of my devices (including my Samsung smart-fridge). for reading this request, and as I have said, I have made a statement. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 21:59, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Questions for candidate

 * Thank you for volunteering! All wiki creators must know Content Policy like the back of their hand when reviewing wiki requests. In your original request, you did not mention you had knowledge of the Content Policy or of any of the other global policies nor of the Wiki creators guide however, through past interactions with you and your previous RfP for Wiki Creator, I know you do possess knowledge of them. As such, I would like to know what you think of the following requests and if you would approve or decline them and what your reasoning is for that. Thanks!


 * Wiki name: "Hero's Journey" Wiki subdomain: herosjourney.miraheze.org Description: "Hero's Journey is an MMO game. Our current wiki is on Fandom but we want to move to Miraheze because it gives us greater freedom. Fandom's policy changes also are concerning because previously acceptable wikis are now all of a sudden closed. We want to move to Miraheze because we can customize our skin and domain."
 * Wiki name: '揭露“猎虎打苍蝇”' Wiki subdomain: zhenxiang.miraheze.org Description: "Help the wiki show the real government policy. Wiki shows all people the real little bear how it is and nature of company."
 * Wiki name: Free for All wiki Wiki subdomain: free4all.miraheze.org Description: "The Free for All Wiki is devoted to let users write about whatever they want! Users can also test MediaWiki at the same time while they write about whatever they want."
 * Wiki name: My Notes Wiki subdomain: semiinotes.miraheze.org Visbility: Private Description: "Private notes for my Seminar II class."
 * Wiki name: 4chan gen wiki Wiki subdomain: 4chanwiki.miraheze.org Description: "General wiki about 4chan. Will discuss and archive all notable 4chan events across all boards. It will include info on the OP and follow ups by the OP to the original post, including trilogies. Will also discuss notorious 4chan users."
 * Wiki name: Hitler in WWII Wiki subdomain: hitlerinwwii.miraheze.org Description: "This wiki will focus on Hitler during World War II. This wiki will go deeper into his thought process according to sources in the matter and will document his ideology change through different periods in his life." Agent Isai  Talk to me! 23:08, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello, and thanks for the questions.
 * 1. Accept, this request has a good reasoning.
 * 2. Request clarification, as I cannot tell exactly what this wiki will be about.
 * 3. Decline, as we can only have 1 test wiki, and “let users write about whatever they want!” concerns me, as this doesn’t directly mean that it would allow users to violate, but it might have no policies to the wiki.
 * 4. Accept, as IIRC, private wikis can have a short description, as long as it wouldn’t sound like it would violate the content policy.
 * 5. Decline, as it says “It will include info on the OP”, and “Will also discuss notorious 4chan users.”, and can have the potential to violate the CP.
 * 6. Accept, as this will be documenting history.
 * Again, I would like to thank you for the questions, as if I got one wrong, it would better my knowledge. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 23:29, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 3. (extended) And by no policies, I mean local. It also might not enforce global policies, requiring CVT intervention. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 16:46, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * All your answers are okay except for #1. #1 does not give you enough information on the wiki or it's scope. Generally, the request should have 2-3 sentences worth of description, not filler. The Fandom part was purely filler and did not give you any indication of what the wiki is about and when considering a wiki request, should not be counted to the quota of 2-3 sentences. I encourage you backread through some wiki requests and see how we approved/declined them and for what reason. Should you become a wiki creator, I exhort you to never doubt in asking for help from other wiki creators when something is unclear or falls under a grey area. Thank you for answering these questions. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 17:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * . I have looked back on the description, and yes, I entirely agree. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 17:26, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Discussion
Other users feel free to support/oppose/abstain from this RfP but please state your reasoning below.


 * 1) He started editing in October (163 local edits in Meta, most of them in their own user subpage), although we need wiki creators. Also, 5 months ago, he was already accused of creating a fake account and reporting it himself (something childish), even so it's old. However, you have to wait longer or contribute by helping with some things like CN (or translations) in Meta. To gain the necessary trust with you, wait more. Next time, you'll probably get my vote. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 23:08, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I fully understand your concern, however per the “contribute by helping with some things like CN (or translations) in Meta,” part, I have actually been contributing on Discord, Phabricator, and GitHub as well as on Meta. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 23:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There is no way to contribute to Discord. You must be active on Meta to be a wiki creator. Have you seen Wiki Creator with 0 edits here? <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 23:44, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I am a patroller here, and spend time throughout my day to make sure that I can see edits here. Check my patrol logs, please. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 23:51, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm a Patroller, I do the same thing too. That's not why I'm a Wiki Creator. <b style="color: #1965e0;">YellowFrogger</b> <b style="color: #069404;">(<b style="color: #069404;">✉ Talk </b> <b style="color: #069404;">✐ Edits </b>)</b> 00:00, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I really don’t want to start an argument, so I’m leaving it here. I respect your !vote, but just wanted to point something out. -- Cheers, Bukkit ( Talk • All Contribs ) 00:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Remember when he's User:WikiJS? He moved accounts to User:Bukkit in June. He's active in June. Anpang   Talk   Stuff  01:23, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * YellowFrogger became active in September I believe; the transition may have been missed on him, and the full history is not immediately clear. --Raidarr (talk) 02:09, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) ; I do not see the urgency claimed so far for additional hands on deck. If anything I think the need lies in more attention from creators rather than having more out of a wish to minimize wait times, which to my knowledge are rarely unreasonable especially in recent times. I will note, Bukkit is merely the latest account of a series that began to my knowledge with, which carries a registration in 2020 and a reasonable edit count, including just shy of 200 on Meta. I do not believe this right hinges on one's noticeboard activity or translation work, though they could certainly help to tell one's commitment. Rather the key questions are if the user is trusted to be familiar with Content Policy and trustworthy enough to have the necessary discretion in interpreting what requests may be more likely to cause issue than others. To put it another way, I think a wiki creator should demonstrate competent policy knowledge, have a keen sense of judgement and work well with the community at large. I'm not convinced based on evidence so far. However I know another volunteer is working on questions. Their answers may change my impression, and I do not hold my votes as absolute if new details come up. --Raidarr (talk) 01:18, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Doesn't this seem a bit too soon? --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 17:07, 5 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section