IRC/RfC


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Proposal 1 passes. The community also acknowledges the statement by SRE, namely the recognition that IRC is a community sphere of which they opt to use. The decision they took to move without awaiting community consensus and without consulting with community representatives on the matter was illegitimate and it is good to see they have reviewed this and will not conduct similar actions in the future. John (talk) 16:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Recently Freenode has had a change of power. The staff say that the people who now have power aren't very trustworthy. Because of this all the staff have resigned. (See https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 for details) It may be worth moving Miraheze IRC channels to another irc network. The former Freenode staff have created libera.chat for this reason. There is also a discussion to move WMF channels (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Freenode_%28IRC%29). Please note that you must be an active member of the Miraheze IRC community to be eligible to vote in this RFC. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 14:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 1
All Miraheze-run channels will be moved to libera.chat or similar platform, as determined collectively by existing Group Contacts on the Freenode network, who will remain Group Contacts on the new network. After a reasonable period of time, as determined by Group Contacts, the existing IRC channels on the Freenode network within the Miraheze namespace shall be dropped and the project officially deregistered with Freenode.

Support

 * 1)  Freenode is in turmoil. I suggest we keep both active though for a week or so.  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  15:57, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  The nature of the takeover is against all principles of Open Source. I recommend we move to Libera.chat ASAP. Sario528 (talk) 16:02, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  yes. "the network that runs at freenode.org/net/com should now be assumed to be under control of a malicious party."  16:09, 19 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * Universal Omega That statement is unsourced conjecture, though; therefore, I do feel that is a weak argument. Dmehus (talk) 16:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * the source is the linked gist. 16:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * Universal Omega I know, and I've read the Gist now. It's mainly about control over the Freenode domain name and the assets having been sold to another company. There's nothing that supports the contention to treat Freenode as compromised; that's a reputationally harmful leap I'm not willing to make. A better rationale for you to make is to say that Freenode is in a state of turmoil, making the situation untenable. Also, would you be able to fix your signature? It's incompatible with the DiscussionTools extension. The  tags should be within wikilinks, not inside and outside the wikilinks. Thanks. Dmehus (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree that freenode shouldn't be considered compromised. It most certainly should. Sure it is in a state of turmoil, and that's my other reason for my vote, I just mentioned my other reason when voting. 16:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * But it's wrong to assume that because there's a change of control, that we should assume it's compromised. If that were the case, we'd assume Discord was in a state of being compromised merely by being acquired, in whole or in part, by new investors. Dmehus (talk) 16:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  DuchessTheSponge (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  per the state of turmoil Freenode is in. Dmehus (talk) 16:45, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  per the chaos with Freenode and the resignation of the staff team. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 17:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  - There is a storm of chaos overtaking freenode, best to take shelter in another network TheBurningPrincess (talk) 17:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  We should at least start coming up with plans to move so that we're prepared in case the worst is indeed fully realized. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk  ·  Contributions ) 18:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  per the current chaos at Freenode. — Arcversin (talk) 18:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  I can now see why people are supporting this. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 19:02, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  I will no longer be using Freenode rather using Libera. So if others want to maintain the miraheze channel they can but I will not be supporting anyone on the Freenode miraheze channels. A malicious party has taken control of Freenode so presents a security issue. We've decided to move the Site Reliability Engineering teams channel (miraheze-sre) to Libera. Paladox (talk) 21:04, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  Altilunium (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Altilunium I just need to verify your IRC nickname. What nickname do you use on either Freenode or Libera? Thanks. Dmehus (talk) 15:06, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's "Rtnf" on Libera. Altilunium (talk) 15:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * . That's great. Dmehus (talk) 15:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Why bother moving IRC channels? Also, could you possibly explain what you mean by all staff members have quit, ? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk)  (contribs) 14:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)  Striked: Moved to Support.
 * 2)  as premature move, based on a current and in flux development. There's a lot of assumptions and accusations without evidence being thrown about in the linked Gist and, though I've not read all of it, we should not assume Freenode is controlled by "malicious" actors. For all we know, this could just be a simple power grab by the Freenode breakaway parties to try and take significant market share away from Freenode by virtue of the affinity relationships they've built with Freenode communities. Aside from that, remaining Freenode staff already have access to the NickServ database, so I'm not sure what this would solve. Dmehus (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 2
All Miraheze channels will remain on Freenode.

Support

 * 1)  I don't feel that this is necessary at this point. You may argue your points with me, and I'll respond accordingly. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 14:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)  Striked: Moved to Oppose instead. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 19:55, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  per my comments above. Dmehus (talk) 14:40, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Freenode network is no longer an appropriate place for Miraheze's IRC operations. Sario528 (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per my above vote.  16:10, 19 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 3)  DuchessTheSponge (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  per my comments in Proposal 1. Dmehus (talk) 16:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  per what I said above. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 17:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) - I do not consider freenode to be a good place for the Miraheze channels anymore due to the staff resigning and the chaos TheBurningPrincess (talk) 17:37, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  I think we should have a transition period, wherein the freenode channels are still active during this time, but we shouldn't consider them to be permanent establishments anymore. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk  ·  Contributions ) 18:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  per my Proposal 1 comment. — Arcversin (talk) 18:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  What has Freenode become these days anyway? I have changed my vote from Strongest support to Strongest Oppose instead. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 19:55, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 10)  What I've stated above. Paladox (talk) 21:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion
At the moment, I think it might be a bit early to make such a decision. I think we should wait for a few days, and hopefully things will clear up a bit. I'm not opposed to looking into Freenode alternatives. But, if additional evidence comes out in favor of the resignation letters, I would likely be opposed to remaining on the network. -- Void  Whispers 15:19, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Void Yeah, I'm of a similar view, but if we do proceed with a move, we should also consider other IRC network alternatives, too, as I think there are quite a few other IRC networks to consider. Dmehus (talk) 15:23, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

SRE statement
As most of you who have voted here will be aware, our channels have now been almost effectively moved to Libera Chat. On behalf of the Site Reliability Engineering Team, I would like to apologise for the handling of the transition. The SRE team was wrong in making a hasty decision to move to Libera Chat without waiting for this RfC to effectively close, as the community should have a say in what happens to Miraheze community related IRC channels. The move happened in circumstances that were not ideal, with some system administrators being worried that they were security issues involved in staying on Freenode, however this was not an excuse to immediately move the community channels to another platform without waiting for the community to express its view. We have reviewed this and will make sure to no longer repeat such mistakes in the future. While highly unlikely to be the case now as this RfC is so far unanimous in support of moving to Libera Chat, the Site Reliability Engineering team would be willing to move the community channels back if that is what the community decided. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 19:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section