Community noticeboard/Archive 3

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Backup
Hi,

Is it possible for me to make my own backups of my wiki? And in that case - how?

/Madelene
 * It is possible to have backups, but these must be done by sysadmins (either manually once, or automatically at set times). Please read Backups and make a request on Phabricator. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 14:27, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The function "main" does not exist
Recently I asked for an import of files to my wiki which seemed to break several things. I fixed most of the issues, however it says that the function "main" does not exist, which after some research makes me believe that my wiki's MediaWiki.php file got edited during the import, although I'm not sure. If anyone knows how I can fix this, please let me know! CoolieCoolster (talk) 19:12, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * CoolieCoolster ¿conservas el mensaje completo? ha estado ocurriendo algunos problemas de importación, ver solicitud T2693 en Phabricator. Wiki1776 (talk) 19:30, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Extension reviewing
Extension reviews seem to be the biggest backlog as far as Phabricator requests are concerned. Perhaps Miraheze should hire someone to help review them? CoolieCoolster (talk) 00:50, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, extension reviews are a big issue currently as the two reviewers are both busy. Unfortunately, I do not think we have enough budget to actually hire someone to do these reviews. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 06:04, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * How much time does it take to review an extension? Depending on how much it would cost, perhaps I could hire someone to review several extensions for Miraheze. CoolieCoolster (talk) 11:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not personally sure about how much time it would take to review an extension, but I imagine it does take a while. A reviewer must make sure that there are no security vulnerabilities in the code, and thoroughly analyse it. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 20:01, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright. I will ask a PHP developer how long they think it would take to properly review an extension and will compile a list of the unreviewed extensions on Phabricator, and will then see whether or not it is economically worth paying a PHP developer to review the extensions. CoolieCoolster (talk) 20:56, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

$30 an hour
Here is the list of extensions under review: https://podpedia.org/wiki/User:CoolieCoolster/Miraheze_List_of_Extensions_Under_Review There are quite a few of them, and the PHP Dev charges $30 an hour and said that it would take them about an hour on average to review each extension so we need to pick and choose which ones should be reviewed. I can probably pay for three or four extensions to be reviewed. The extension being made for my wiki will be done in about a week and a half and I want it reviewed ASAP so I can use it, so two or three other extensions should be picked for the dev to review. It seems like some of the Phabricator requests for extensions are for unmaintained wikis, so perhaps some requests should be declined. CoolieCoolster (talk) 18:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 30$ is quite a high price tag. I would not be in support of this unless the review of these extensions are absolutely necessary to the smooth running of a community. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * In this case it would just be me paying for it, although perhaps I should look for someone who is willing to do it for cheaper. Cheaper might also mean not as good of a review though, since the person $30/hour person is a MediaWiki expert. CoolieCoolster (talk) 19:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think $30 per hour (£22 for those in the UK) isn't overly expensive for something specialist such as PHP developer fees. Of course it would cost a small fortune to get all the extensions/skins reviewed so realistically I can't see that happening but I guess if people are willing to pay or make additional donations to get their requested extensions reviewed sooner it's not a bad idea. I would pay to get my requested skin (Pivot) checked if it meant having it sooner, but sometimes you just have to be a little patient for a service that's free. 21:59, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No, $30/hour is a bargain for consulting by a MediaWiki expert. However, where we left it last episode (Archive 2 § 27) is that certain extensions are not vital for the community (which can certainly "run smoothly" without them) but only for Coolie to induce authors of podcast wikis to come to his Podpedia.  There are many questions languishing in Phabricator and Coolie is welcome to pay to expedite any of them, but this is not a compelling case to use Treasury money.  It would be nice if Stewards review Coolie's choice of developer before he invests any money.
 * In detail: As well as paying a MediaWiki expert to review a technical question (namely, does a given MediaWiki extension jeopardize the health and security of the system?), it is also easy to pay a fake expert to deliver such an opinion as favors the person paying for it.  I read above that we have two Mirahezians who could do such an evaluation and they are busy.  The rest of us presumably do not know how to evaluate an extension.  The consultant will have to do more than report that "This extension is safe"; he would have to enumerate possible threats to Miraheze and explain to those without his skills why the extension does not deliver any of the threats.  If there are technical credentials a professional could provide to certify expertise with MediaWiki, which would people accept?  An agency with a reputation to preserve would be less likely to bang out an opinion to satisfy the payor, but it will charge much more than $30 an hour.   03:33 10-Feb-2018
 * Small correction: Extension decision is up to Labster and his delegates (currently Samwilson). &mdash; revi  05:39, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I am willing to donate to Miraheze or pay Labster or Samwilson for faster extension reviewing if that is at all possible. In a week and a half my extension will be ready and I will need it for my wiki to grow. CoolieCoolster (talk) 06:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * So, what was the outcome of this? Is this going to be a possible way forward to reduce the increasing number of reviews required. The way it looks now a lot of help is needed to reduce the backlog, some stuff which goes back to last October. 22:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I still think that it should be possible to donate to Miraheze to hire someone for faster extension reviewing, however that is just my opinion. CoolieCoolster (talk) 01:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi guys, reviewer here. I guess I could take a pay cut from my day job to work for $30/hour, but that wouldn't actually increase my free time.  So basically what's happening from my point of view is: my mother had heart surgery, my father had surgery to remove a kidney stone, then my hometown caught on fire for over a month so I was breathing smoke all the time but didn't have to evacuate, and then the family all caught the influenza, and then I had to fly across the country to see my grandmother before she died.  So my Miraheze time has dropped a lot lately, and I don't know quite when it will recover.  I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm still CFO of Miraheze, so paying bills has to come first, or otherwise we don't have servers.  Next we need to do nonprofit incorporation, for which I'm the the point person in the absence of actual legal help.  So if you want reviews to go faster, helping to put together a 501(c)(3) application would be one way of doing it.  Another way would be to ask my boss to hire more developers because the rest of the company just doubled in size and we can't crunch for too long here.  Hiring a developer would possible, but really we're not looking for someone at the $30/hour rate, as that would basically be too low for anyone actually competent at security.  It would probably need to be in the 60-75 USD/h range.  Like seriously, some of these extensions are terrible, and I don't trust just anyone to review it.  I'm not opposed to paying, but I would need to trust the reviewer. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.  Maybe I'll get some more time next month.  There's no use getting upset over extensions, we're all going to die anyway, and then the stars grow dim and cold as the universe expands forever. --Labster (talk) 08:19, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

(reset indent) Let me be the first to say how sorry I am to hear of the extremely difficult time you have had recently. No one should have to go through that much pressure and emotional strain let along trying to keep things going with work etc. Mate, you should've taken a proper time out from here. Is there really no one else that can deal with Miraheze finances? I understand what you've gone through as the last six months for me have been strangely similar including having an op myself, almost separating my long-term partner and, potentially, losing my house because of it (with the exception of my village being fire) so I know how shit life can be at times. But then I don't have an important role on Miraheze like yourself. A simple message to everyone to say you needed time away for personal reasons would have given you the space to deal with the difficult time you've had of late; I'm sure people would have understood. People can wait for exrensions. Your health and mental wellbeing are more important. I hope things get better for you soon pal. 09:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm also sorry to hear about the troubles that you have been facing recently. I hope that I didn't come across as overly demanding with my comments. As far as the $30 an hour is concerned, that is just how much the person who is creating an extension for me charges. I'm not sure what other people charge, however I'd imagine that other people would charge the same to not lose customers. What skills would someone need to review extensions? CoolieCoolster (talk) 12:37, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Manage a wiki - from private to open
When I started thegreatwar wiki it was private. When I realised it had a lot of potential I decided to make it open by unchecking the "private" option in "Manage a wiki." That was quite a while ago but I have noticed that the site is not being indexed by google and it doesn't appear in Miraheze's wikistats on wmflabs either. My question is if a wiki was original set to private but then changes to open, will search engines etc. eventually find it and start indexing or does the private option prevent this happening (even when the setting is changed at a later date)? 11:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * WMF labs and their quirky polling of Miraheze data, we discussed briefly at Archive 2 § 19 (conclusion: There is nothing we can do about it). The answer to when Google will feature you in its searches is even neater: When you start paying them.  The fact that you are searching for something at TheGreatWar (especially if you force-feed Google the correct URL) notifies Google that someone is searching for it, but doesn't make it popular.  Your contributions to on-line content here are an arithmetic progression; the growth of Internet materials in general is somewhat more than geometric.  Someone's got to advertise your stuff.  We've discussed that several times.  "Promoted tweets," though I don't want to do it, has been recently explained to me as a way, for short money, to pester a lot of relevant web users about the availability of your content.   13:21 21-Feb-2018
 * Quirky is certainly one way to describe the wmflabs stats, but I already knew it was beyond the control of Miraheze. My other site, The Lonsdale Battalion wiki, appeared on the list very early on so I don't know why The Great war wiki is currently invisible. Regarding google, I've never paid them before to have my sites appear in their indexes. It's never been an issue before either and over the years I have half a dozen different websites including a military forum and they were all indexed relatively quickly without intentionally "promoted tweets" (although some people on my forum had at some point discussed it briefly on other military forums so I guess that would have helped). I don't need the site to "popular" per se and certainly not at this early juncture as I have a lot of work to on it, but it would be helpful if it started to appear in the index to garner some possible interest from other like-minded individuals who may be able to help with the multitude of projects I have on the go. I was simply wondering if it had anything to do with the extension "Manage Wiki" as my site was private but is now open, so I guess my query is directed at, the author. If Manage Wiki has nothing to do with it and google simply needs promoted tweets then I am shit out of luck because I detest pestering other site admins to add links and actively promote a site they know nothing about. 21:59, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, it is indeed because it was private in the past, and Google has skipped indexing it. The simple thing you can do to rectify this is to go to this link and add your URL. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 20:25, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Better answer than mine; thanks!  22:48 22-Feb-2018

Clickable email address
How do I make an email addres clickable?


 * What do you mean clickable? Is it your own e-mail? If it is you can use a link to Special:EmailUser. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 13:41, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You mean [mailto:hey@revi.xyz hey@revi.xyz]? ( [mailto:hey@revi.xyz hey@revi.xyz] - don’t send mail if you’re human: sending mail to this domain will mark your email provider as a spammer.) &mdash; revi  03:16, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

How to make a wiki exemption from the dormancy policy?
I decided not to add more content on TNotes, but I'd like to preserve this site. An exemption of dormancy policy is "Wikis made to be read, where a lot of information is already on wiki and doesn't need to be actively edited.". Do I need to apply for an exemption or something in order not to receive inactive warning or lose this site? --Tiger (talk) 08:57, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have content on the wiki that is meant to be read by people, but just not updated regularly, an exemption is possible, yes. Is that the case? Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 11:28, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, exactly.--Tiger (talk) 12:27, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 13:46, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Creator
Hola. Solicito el permiso de Wiki creators para poder ayudar en las solicitudes de wikis, ya he leído la guía. Llevo un tiempo participando en Meta desde que me registré en mayo de 2017 haciendo comentarios en algunas páginas y quiero seguir colaborando en otras áreas como Creador de wikis y traductor de páginas. Wiki1776 (talk) 22:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * User is around IRC, and seems to be active in translations on Meta and other discussions, therefore I see no issue with granting wiki creator. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 18:47, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Void  Whispers 18:48, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Wiki1776 (talk) 22:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Wikispaces is shutting down
Wikispaces, a major wiki farm, will begin shutting down in a few months, and its last wikis will shut down on January 31 of next year. Perhaps this is an opportunity for Miraheze to convince customers of the soon-to-be-gone Wikispaces to move to Miraheze? It could be an opportunity to gain more funding since universities and organizations that have paid Wikispaces in the past for their wikis could donate that money to Miraheze instead. Here is a link with information about their shut down: http://blog.wikispaces.com/ CoolieCoolster (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I volunteer to be the contact person for any college or university interested in making the switch. I looked seriously at Wikispaces as a possible alternative in case Miraheze ever closed down.  I discovered that Miraheze is in many ways superior because it's syntax so closely mirrors the Wikimedia Foundation.  I am also looking to help out with any grants, especially those involving Quizbank and designing courses compatible with https://openstax.org/ or http://astro.unl.edu/.  Also, there is something called CPR that needs to be made compatible with a wiki.  It was developed as a free resource by UCLA, and then sold to a for-profit organization.  There is no reason why a system like this shouldn't be open source.  For more info on CPR, visit http://cpr.molsci.ucla.edu/Home.aspx.  My CV is at http://www.wright.edu/~guy.vandegrift/shortCV/GVCV.htm.  I am close enough to retirement age that having tenure is not a big deal and would gladly work full-time on soft money to get this effort going. --Guy vandegrift (talk) 15:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is a list of educational Wikispaces wikis: http://educationalwikis.wikispaces.com/Examples+of+educational+wikis CoolieCoolster (talk) 19:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

A quibble
A quibble: When a university develops a resource for free distribution, then sells it to a for-profit organization (whose own vision of the future might be: profit), the question is not, "Shouldn't it be open-source?" but "Is it open-source?" 16:01 15-Feb-2018
 * I am not certain about this, but I don't think the university "sold" it because for several years they hosted a free version that a colleague of mine used for an online economics course. He was glad the university offered the service because the other one cost something like $500.  My understanding is that the university took down the free version only because they replaced the computer.  CPR is vaguely analogous to the systems of "likes" or "shares" used in social media, except that there is quality control.  A student is unable to submit their essay until the student has correctly assessed other essays that have already been "graded".  And, each student's grade is based partly on how accurately they "grade" recently submitted essays that have not yet been graded.  To keep people from copying each other's essays, all essays must be about a recent news article.  It's a bit more work than the crazy "likes" and "shares" that facebook uses, by my colleague assured me that CPR was a labor-saving device for him.  My argument is that if a robot can drive a car in city traffic, we should be able to teach college courses with a lot less effort (before college they are still children and need real people to encourage them.)--Guy vandegrift (talk) 17:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Without a doubt, college could occur "with a lot less effort" and a lot less student debt. There is no magic about the lecture-hall setting; colleges excel not at teaching but at certifying that the student has learned.  As for saving effort, there are institutional forces to the contrary, from teachers' unions to our sudden monopoly on student lending.
 * But your speculation becomes: How to enhance the Wikilove extension ("thanks" for posts) to improve the quality of the votes. Without baking it into the wiki, Uncyclopedia has a system by which authors review each other's articles.  Users are encouraged to submit reviews and not just request them, and one's own reputation is at stake if he is thoughtlessly negative.   18:53 15-Feb-2018
 * (PS—Actually, one's reputation is not at stake but only the reputation of one's user name. And there is no comparable assurance against cribbing someone else's review, except that a typical review request leads to only one review—though the reviewee can "request a second opinion."   19:01 15-Feb-2018 )
 * You are right about the inertia in the system regarding "setting education free". But it doesn't hurt to push in the right direction.  Regarding the "peer review" in CPR, each instructor has complete control over the peer review in the present configuration of CPR.  The instructor selects the papers that the students must successfully review before the article can be submitted, and to all but the instructor, the peer reviews are completely anonymous; neither reviewer nor reviewee know each other's true identity or even username.

Formats for moving an account here
In the past, when wiki.wiki was shutting down, we were open for possible incoming migration, AFAIK there were none. If someone would like to be imported, sure, we can handle it. (PS: We only accept XML backups. (I don't know if they accept this format as export option.) HTML, as explained in their migration doc is not a standard form for MW import. Our server is 100% Unix (in fact, Linux) so you should choose Unix format, too.) I have sort of draft (without knowing this) in Moving wiki to Miraheze, improvements welcome. &mdash; revi  16:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with revi. This is a good opportunity, and if anyone wants to migrate from Wikispaces, we would be happy to host them :) We strongly prefer XML dumps, but if the only possibility is SQL dumps, that could also be done, if necessary (and if the version is 1.30). But HTML dumps or anything (as revi said above) are not accepted for technical reasons., thank you for volunteering to be a contact person. Hopefully we will get wikis willing to migrate. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 18:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * As always, the key is advertising, and this time I don't mean a big-budget professional agency. We ought to have a liaison to Wikispaces.  They might be reluctant to give Miraheze an official endorsement, but they are as motivated to give their stranded users information about one fine replacement service, as we are that they do so.  Their closure announcement, linked to above, has the flavor "Have a nice life!" but there is no reason it couldn't include something of the form, "Here is one place you might try!"   18:57 15-Feb-2018

Quick skimming smells like they’re not MediaWiki; I’m not sure. Anyway, if their export tool cannot generate xml file that Special:Import and importDump.php understand, we can’t help them with their ‘backups’. &mdash; revi</tt>  21:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, I remember when MWZip (another hosting service) shut down, they mentioned Miraheze and another wiki hosting service in their announcement. Either Wikispaces could do that, or they could simply link to a list with all wiki hosting services (such as the one on MediaWiki.org) Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:02, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I manage a wiki on wikispaces, and am considering migrating to Miraheze. Their list of export options includes "MediaWiki - this is a conversion of your wikispaces data into mediawiki (mediawiki.org) dialect." -Katherine, 3/2/18
 * That sounds compatible with us. Pick a username here, request a wiki, and see if you can export your stuff onto it in MediaWiki format; if it works, please mention us as an option to the others there.   22:22 2-Mar-2018
 * (minor) Added back as bot archived due to non-standard signature timestamp. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 10:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * C.F. Autoarchive. &mdash; revi</tt>  10:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)