Requests for Comment/Changes to CVT group

This proposal is intended to add additional rights to the CVT group so that they may better deal with global threats.

Proposal 1
The rights  and   are added to the CVT group. This can either be assigned to a local group on meta, or to the global group, however the creation of a local group would be best suited.

The reason I'm making this request is due to the fact that recently, I have followed two vandalism only accounts across over a dozen wikis each, where I blocked and reverted the mess that they were creating. In each case, my ability to respond was really limited to whenever a steward became available. Having these rights would have much sooner prevented further abuse.

These two rights are rather powerful. As such, they should only be used in cases where the user is: Further applications of use may be decided in this RfC.
 * Policy wise
 * 1) Clearly a spambot/vandalism-only-account of some sort
 * 2) Clearly a sockpuppet with intentions of disrupting multiple wikis
 * 3) Has currently disrupted more than one or two wikis

Support

 * as creator. -- Void  Whispers 01:02, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe that following the recent cross-wiki abuse dealt with by Void are a clear indication of why this can really help, as I was unable to load the website on my phone and lock the account, so Void had to wait around repeatedly cleaning up more abuse before the account was locked. I think as long as CVT members (at least those in the local group that should be created, since all locks/blocks should be done on meta) -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 01:20, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the CVT group is to deal with cross-wiki vandalism. Currently, this is difficult as if a user/IP spams on more wikis, they need to be blocked individually on each wiki. As NDKilla said above, stewards are not always available when issues like this happen and just yesterday a sysadmin has had to emergency grant themselves steward to clean up the mess. Therefore, I really think that the CVT group should be granted the rights in question to better, and more effectively stop cross-wiki vandalism/spam. Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 04:57, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * CVT should be able to block globally vandals, spambots, etc... Zabshk (talk) 15:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * happy to see cross wiki vandals dealt with quickly and easily.- Bertie (talk) 01:29, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Abstain

 * This idea seems to me quite good and would certainly facilitate the work of this group (given that there are also few stewards, as indicate Reception123), however, I think that you have to be cautious in the sense that to begin with, I do not see any community process where these users are chosen (not described as they are Chosen on the group's information page). The ability to disable and block accounts globally requires the community to know and trust that user. For now I refrain, since I'm not against, but I can not be in support for now. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 21:33, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Oppose

 * I would oppose either of these two rights being added globally, as even the global steward group doesn't have them, and usually global locks and blocks are only done by stewards. I would, however, support the creation of a local group on Meta that contains . I would oppose global blocking regardless, because in order to block an IP range you would need CheckUser (for logged in accounts) and I would strongly oppose granting CVT global or local checkuser access. --  Amanda   (talk)  11:32, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * There are also IP spambots/vandals, not only global ranges to be blocked. No one is talking about granting CU to CVT. Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 11:39, 1 May 2017 (UTC)


 * procedurally until the group is established through an RfC. Locking accounts is a fairly dangerous tool which isn't one I'm happy giving to a group made without community consensus with no policies and no accountability on appointment. The group has (and still does) serve positively but I'm against expansion until a policy is in place with evidence of community suppport. John (talk) 11:43, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that this is a serious concern that should be addressed before this RfC comes to a close. This may be achieved by an additional proposal, or a new RfC altogether. -- Void  Whispers 20:27, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree with John - It would be better to decide exactly what the CVT should and shouldn't be expected to do and then give them the powers they need to do that job, than to give them powers before we know what their remit is. Not that I think the team shouldn't have these powers, just that the suggestion is premature. --Robkelk (talk) 23:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)


 * for now.


 * Opening or attention getter - To everyone here:
 * State your concern - My growing concern is that the adequacy of this decision-making process for all three measures crucially depends on having more time to discuss the three measures.
 * State the problem as you see it - "[measure one] A proposal for a Code of Conduct has been made. [measure two] There is also currently an open Request for Stewardship and [measure three] proposal for changes to the Counter Vandalism Team's global permissions." Each of these three measures are quite something to research and discuss, and measure two suggests that these three measures and other measures could be overworking the community, especially the Stewards, which apparently could be attempting to handle the increased workload by making sure that there are more Stewards. Having additional Stewards is one thing, but more power is quite another, and does not follow from any wisdom that the proposed increase of the number of Stewards may or may not have.
 * State a solution - My opinion is that the promotion and the changes to the Counter Vandalism Team's global permissions must be delayed until the entire community has enough time to discuss all three measures fully. My opinion is also that such discussions about measures two and three can only begin to happen after measure one has been discussed and decided.
 * Obtain agreement (or buy-in) - How does that sound to the community?


 * I'm sorry, but after further consideration and review, including looking at how Wikimedia Foundation handles these kind of permissions, I cannot support the addition of steward userrights to an unestablished global group that was created off the cuff in response to vandalism. -- Amanda   (talk)  13:03, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposal 1.5
Sorta just hit me, but I also realized that the ability to edit global filters  would also be an improvement, as some of the abuse is quite systematic and easily prevented by simple abuse filter rules. Other possible uses include maintaining the spam filters, which don't stop everything. While it may be fine to put this through stewards, it still does slow down the response time, and requests may go unanswered for some time. Also, it is kinda pointless for CVT to be able to edit filters on all public wikis when the spam/vandalism we are dealing with can occur on many different wikis.

Global filters should only be managed by CVT in cases where: Further applications of use may be decided in this RfC.
 * Policy wise
 * 1) The condition would match a large amount of spam/vandalism recently encountered by the CVT member.
 * 2) The CVT member is responding to a large number of false positive results on the filter.

Support

 * as proposer. -- Void  Whispers 01:02, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * per comment on proposal 1. Although this is a [possibly] more serious permission, I think granting them hand in hand is fair. Also, I have made changes to global filters at Void's request without question. Mostly because he created a local abuse filter that I just made global. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 01:20, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Per above, I don't see why not as this should go in CVT's "job description". Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 04:59, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that this could be helpful. -- Amanda   (talk)  11:33, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Abuse filter can really help fighting vandalism. Zabshk (talk) 14:58, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * : adds a new layer of defence in case of global vandalism. LulzKiller (talk) 15:25, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * This would facilitate the work of the members of this group. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 21:36, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * An essential fix. Sj (talk) 18:59, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Oppose

 * for now.


 * Opening or attention getter - To everyone here:
 * State your concern - My confusion is about the denotation of this and other proposed abilities.
 * State the problem as you see it - While I am an experienced former Wikimedia Project editor and I founded and edit the Coldwater Project, I still do not yet have any experience nor training with the technical concepts involved here. I'm also concerned that many of the other community members may not yet have specifically and explicitly confirmed nor denied any proficiency in these technical matters.
 * State a solution -


 * 1) My opinion is that the promotion and the changes to the Counter Vandalism Team's global permissions must be delayed until the entire community has enough time to discuss all three measures fully.
 * 2) My opinion is also that such discussions about the promotion and changes to the permissions can only begin to happen after the matter of the proposed Code of Conduct has been discussed and decided.
 * 3) My opinion is also that someone should make or recommend some sort of training simulator made by using real data to discover what these technical concepts are like in real life instead of saying what they are like, and a passing grade in which demonstrates proficiency in these technical concepts.
 * 4) I suggest an alternative to a simulator, which includes more discussion, but is mostly just more time.
 * Obtain agreement (or buy-in) - How does that sound to the community? Saline (talk) 11:54, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Disagree that this proposals should be linked to whatever "all three measures" are that you mentioned but didn't define. --Robkelk (talk) 12:21, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * @robkelk he means the CoC, this one, and the Void's Stewardship. LulzKiller (talk) 09:30, 4 May 2017 (UTC)