Community noticeboard/Archive 17

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A new wiki for the website's community
The Miraheze Community Wiki is a wiki for the community so people can get to know each other and welcome each other. I know Meta does that, but I think we need a wiki for that stuff.

Support

 * 1) I think we need a wiki for this kind of thing InspecterAbdel (talk) 22:44, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) but not per any of the above or below, but because community noticeboard has become a catch-all for technical support questions, community discussions, and really anything. The organization is weak, and we could use a community wiki. I have no objections to it, but the main reason for my oppose  weak support here is because the purpose is somewhat vague and unclear. I appreciate  bringing this for a community discussion, though, and, since this wiki was simultaneously submitted for approval and created already, I think we should probably shift this wiki towards defining a clear purpose and terms of reference for its existence and the parameters by which the local   can be removed (via Community noticeboard) here on Meta. Dmehus (talk) 14:55, 28 July 2020 (UTC)  Amended. Moved from weak oppose to weak support Dmehus (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 3) I think we should have one since fandom has one. Plus it's subdomain is valuable too. AppleCrunchy (talk) 19:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * 4) This is a good idea! We have the community board, but it's very messy, votes and other things go in the same page, making it cluttered. With the community wiki, you can have a page for off-topic, memes, just chatting, etc. and it would most likely work, but as there are a lot of opposes, we most likely won't get the community wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiJS (talk • contribs) 18:04, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) I really like to have a community wiki for new users to gather, although we have a Community noticeboard.  CircleyDoesExtracter  ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud ) 17:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) . No, we don't need such a wiki.  This page ("community noticeboard") is exactly for this kind of thing.  I don't want to have to check both this page and a dedicated wiki to find out what is happening on the wiki farm, nor learn how such a wiki is organized.   04:25, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Spike. There is already not enough engagement and usage on Meta, so another wiki is really not what we need. We should focus on Meta. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 06:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 3) . We DO NOT need a community wiki is needed at this time. We already have this page, the community noticeboard, and Requests for Permissions, requests for global rights and requests for stewardship. It seems that it would serve the same service as as most of this meta wiki, and I just see no possible usage for this. I also agree with the comments that has made about having to go back and forth between meta and a community wiki. Sorry, it is just not going to work. --Furricane (talk) 15:10, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm hoping you'll consider amending your !vote, per my comments above, as I really don't think 's goal was for this wiki to replace Meta. The problem with this request is that (a) the wiki shouldn't have been created without a community discussion (not, technically, a requirement, as far as I'm aware, but good practice) and (b) it should've had a clearer purpose, scope, and defined parameters, as we are doing with Dev Wiki and have done with Template Wiki and Miraheze Commons in the past. No community proposals or discussions, or even drafts of such proposals, would've occurred on this wiki. Rather, as I saw it (though vague and unclear), this wiki was meant to be a user collaboration and social connection wiki that would've actually sought to deepen community participation. Participation in this community wiki would've been completely voluntary and not participating would not have meant the user would "miss out" on important community discussions, as I don't think that was ever the intent behind 's good-faith proposal. Dmehus (talk) 15:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 1)  Not needed.--MrJaroslavik (talk) 06:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2)  I do not think another wiki is necessary for the community because for me Meta is the wiki for the community. DeeM28 (talk) 07:30, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3)  This is unnecessary, Meta already serves essentially the same purpose, and there's not really enough of that kind of "community" activity to need a separate wiki. K599 (talk) 20:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * 4)  After reading the first two oppose votes I agree with those users.  We should try to engage the community on Meta and we can be doing community oriented activities here.  Тишина (talk) 17:15, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * 5)  I agree that the noticeboard is enough and if there was a whole wiki about the community it would be under used and it would require moving around instead of just looking at this one page Bayugoon (talk) 19:55, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments

 * I think the subject is not whether we need a community wiki or not, as we already have a community-centric wiki, but whether we need a miraheze-sanctioned community wiki.I think CN is sufficient, but it seems unusual for a topic to be set up for communication purposes, so someone may need to give an example. I found an image on ja.wiktionary.org showing the stroke order of my name, so it might be a good idea to post it, but it takes courage to be the first one. --松•Matsu (talk) 22:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Relist to delay archiving. I will be posting an updated proposal on next steps in the next several days. Dmehus (talk) 02:30, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Relist to delay archiving. I will be posting an updated proposal on next steps in the next several days. Dmehus (talk) 01:36, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Relist to delay archiving. I will be posting an updated proposal on next steps in the next several days. Dmehus (talk) 05:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Steward attention requested: This really should be closed. I already posted an updated proposal, and it was closed as a "duplicate" of this discussion. Justarandomliberal (talk) 16:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

A community Developers wiki
I have a proposition for the Miraheze community. For a while now I have been debating whether or not to create a developers wiki for Miraheze. Unlike the template wiki, this wiki will include CSS and JS scripts that anyone can import using, it will allow anyone who wants it to use scripts built by the community in their own wikis and/or in their own personal global or local JavaScript or CSS files. After consulting with on Discord, I decided to get the communities feedback and/or support on this idea, therefore what does the Miraheze community think of this idea? 22:53, 24 July 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * Yeah, though I don't think it's required to have a community discussion in this case, since it's going to be a community wiki for shared CSS and JavaScript files, among other things potentially, I thought it would be a good practice to have the discussion, especially if it proposes to use the name "Miraheze." Plus, I think it would be helpful for the community to (a) define the initial scope and purpose and (b) establish the founding bureaucrats for the wiki. From there, the local community can help to establish its local policies and further refine its purpose. In general terms, I support this as a community wiki as I think it is sufficiently different than the Template and Miraheze Bots + Tools wikis. I also think it could be useful at reducing the page load times of community-imported and -maintained user scripts, as opposed to always loading them from English Wikipedia and other wikis. Dmehus (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, some of that is part of my initial thoughts for the reasoning of the wiki. As for using the name Miraheze in it, I think it should be called Miraheze Developers Wiki or something similar. As for bureaucrats of the wiki, any candidate recommendations? And I think a community discussion for this is a good idea. It gives the community a way to give input, and their own unique ideas in it as well. 23:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC) ］ |


 * As proposer I support this, but also because I know JS and CSS pretty well, and would love to have a wiki like this for the Miraheze community. 23:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * This is a great idea for a new wiki. I think that by doing this, lots of new coding things could be enabled, including possibly global modules and gadgets. Great suggestion. I also have no concerns for this proposal. --Furricane (talk) 23:27, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, I do believe that a wiki like this could be greatly beneficial in the long run, or at least I hope it can be. 23:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC) ］ |


 * I support this idea because not everyone can do custom CSS and (or) custom JS. Onmp314 (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea for having a central place to import JS and CSS. K599 (talk) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * per my comments above. Dmehus (talk) 21:00, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Good. Waldo (talk) 21:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * would be a nice place to ask questions with in that area Bayugoon (talk) 19:50, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Potential rename and/or expanded scope of Dev Wiki
asked me a few days, or perhaps a week, ago if I had posted in this discussion thread about the potential renaming and expanded scope for Dev Wiki yet. Other tasks took priority, but seeing as this thread was due to be archived in the next day or so, I wanted to get this done. So, I'm going to ping those that participated above and those who participated in the discussion on potential name ideas/expanded scope on Discord.

So, the question is...given that the  subdomain implies broader usage by and for developers beyond just CSS and JavaScript scripts,  and I (did I forget anyone, ?) basically toyed around with a number of potential new names and subdomains, the top three of which is identified below:


 * 1) Retain   and expand the scope, or allow the community, via a future community noticeboard discussion to expand the scope at some point in the future;
 * 2) Rename subdomain to , which would be roughly in line with the current purpose and scope, but open to possibilities later (again, the community would retain the right modify the scope via a community noticeboard discussion); or,
 * 3) Rename subdomain to , with a narrow scope; limits us in the future, but entirely accurate; it's not too bad, as we could easily create a separate dev later, though we should reserve that subdomain in the blacklist)

Since didn't participate in the Discord discussion and since this doesn't require any advanced rights to close, I nominate him to assess the consensus and close this discussion in a week or two. --Dmehus (talk) 00:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of RhinosF1 as closer
, please indicate if you would be willing to close this discussion after 1-2 weeks (depending on the weather-related impacts to U.S. eastern seaboard residents).

Additionally, can I get a seconder to second this nomination? (Thought we could probably safely skip a full vote on nominating an uninvolved closer.)


 * Accepted:  ~ RhinosF1 - (chat)· acc· c -  19:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC) (as nominated closer)
 * Moved: Dmehus (talk) 00:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC) (as nominator)
 * Seconded: 02:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * Procedural comment: This has been relisted for another two weeks. Dmehus (talk) 12:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Procedural comment: This has been relisted for another two weeks. Dmehus (talk) 13:41, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Procedural comment: This has been relisted for another two weeks, plus the duration set by the hidden wikicomment at the end of this thread. Dmehus (talk) 13:59, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Voting and Vote Tabulation Instructions
You are encouraged to express first and second choices in your !vote. Please do so by indicating, in your !vote for each proposal, whether it is your first or second choice. If no proposal achieves more than 50% of the valid !votes cast, the proposal with the least number of first choice !votes will be dropped, and those users' second choices will then be allocated accordingly, and the results retabulated in a second count.

Support

 * 1)   02:41, 9 August 2020 (UTC) ］ |
 * 2)  as first choice, since the community remains overall authority over this wiki in terms of its   removal (as may be required) and in terms of redefining, or broadening, its scope. Dmehus (talk) 11:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3)  I think there is no need to rename. Onmp314 (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * 4)  Looks nice, and is easy to understand. K599 (talk) 20:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Neutral/Abstain
This is arguably kind of useless, in this case, since the !votes won't be counted, but I'll nonetheless include it.

Neutral/Abstain
This is arguably kind of useless, in this case, since the !votes won't be counted, but I'll nonetheless include it.
 * 1)  I like this idea as well, but it feels like it has other non-computer science-related use cases (i.e., for an archival- or museum-type wiki). Dmehus (talk) 11:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Neutral/Abstain
This is arguably kind of useless, in this case, since the !votes won't be counted, but I'll nonetheless include it.
 * 1)  I also liked 's idea, as it is the most specific and clearly defines this wiki's current purpose, but, at the same time, it really does restrict a future broadening of this wiki's scope to include a broader array of wiki developer resources, for which the community retains the absolute authority to redefine this wiki's purpose via community noticeboard. Dmehus (talk) 11:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Privacy policy 13+ years refers to editors or readers?
Please help me understand correctly this part of the Privacy Policy:

"Miraheze does not operate Services that are targeted at people under 13 years of age, and does not collect personally identifiable information. If you are a parent or guardian and become aware that your child has been using the Services, please let us know and we will remove your child’s information."

Does it mean that each editor of the wiki must be at least 13 years old, or that the content of the wiki should be written for readers at least 13 years old?

Specifically, I would like to make a wiki that provides links to educational resources for elementary and high schools; for example YouTube videos that explain math. (I found a lot of great resources, and I believe it would be useful to have them at one place, sorted by school curriculum.) Editors of the wiki would be adult people, typically teachers. But the intended audience is the students and/or their parents; in case of elementary school, that would include kids below 13. The expected use case is: "A kid didn't understand the lesson about triangles at school, goes to the wiki, chooses 'Math' + grade + 'Triangles', and hopefully there are a couple of YouTube videos linked." (That is, the kids are definitely not expected to 'edit' the wiki.)

Would such wiki be compatible with the Privacy Policy?

-- Viliam (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Viliam Thank you for the question. This refers mainly to editors&mdash;specifically anything that requires collecting personal information from users under 13 years of age. Under UK law, as well as the laws of the European Union, Miraheze Limited is legally prohibited from knowingly collecting personal information from users under that age. In your case, you could still create a fishbowl wiki that was only editable by the  group and you could even take away the   permission from the anonymous user group  and even the   group, so accounts could not be created. So, yeah, to answer your question, it's not a problem for you to create an educational wiki that would be read only by students as the students could not create an account on that wiki. Hope that helps. Dmehus (talk) 02:26, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for explanation; wiki "skola.miraheze.org" created (no content yet). --Viliam (talk) 21:20, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Viliam Oh, that's ✅ to hear. Glad you're all set up. Feel free to join us on IRC in or on Discord if you have any questions regarding building your wiki. Dmehus (talk) 02:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

How can I redirect a page?
I have a wiki, and I made a page, but I want to redirect other pages to the specific page, so how can I do that? Wiki JS 19:35, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * WikiJS You can add  on a new page. Hope that helps. Dmehus (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! It worked! Wiki JS  19:42, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * WikiJS Okay, ✅. Dmehus (talk) 19:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)