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Universal Omega's Request for IRC Group Contact
Hello, this is highly unorthodox and unprecedented request. I am not 100% sure if this is even how to go about it. However, I have decided to make this request (which may or may not be advisory-only to existing group contacts) to be an IRC Group Contact. My reason for this request is that currently there is only a single group contact on IRC. This means that when that one group contact is away there is no one else to handle requests. And ideally in order to balance things out, there should be more than one group contact, if not just to have a fallback to handle things requiring the attention of a group contact. Therefore, I am now making this request, and requesting confirmation from the community for the position as IRC Group Contact. Thank you! Universal Omega (talk) 05:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I would like to confirm, that even given recent events, and my resignation from SRE, I am not withdrawing this request. Now more than ever we need GCs, and even though I am no longer SRE, I still am a community member here, and am committed to helping things move forward between relations between all core groups in Miraheze. My first and foremost commitment is to the community, and even given recent events and regrettable things that have happened that has not changed, and I am still keeping this request up. I just thought I should clarify that. Universal Omega (talk) 20:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Questions for candidate

 * 1) Below in MacFan's oppose section he said, "A private discussion between Miraheze staff members", do you feel private discussions should be a preliminary aspect of starting community discussions like this? It's interesting that 3 requests have come at once following a discussion that is not public and involving 2 groups labelled as staff when neither are Board appointed? Miraheze has had a long history of having a closed 'old boys' style club where decisions were made in private involving groups that either a) shouldn't be discussing community affecting things privately (stewards) or b) shouldn't be having a major influence on community aspects by definition (SRE). I find it slightly concerning that this line of proposals is coming out of re-igniting such a private and exclusive club. John (talk) 21:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No extensive conversation took place. I had voiced my intent to make this request, which I always wanted to be a community and not internal decision, or at least an "advisory" aspect on the decision of this. I then privately talked it over with Reception123, to make sure they were also okay with me nominating them for it, as I felt we needed at least two fairly active members of IRC as additional GCs. MacFan4000 and I had only briefly discussed in a PM. And in another conversation, it was voiced between a few users that there was a need, which is why I made this request.
 * I made this request before any other requests, or even voiced intents to make such request was even mentioned from other users. I believe that the community should have an opinion on the matter, which is why I made this, rather than requesting directly to you, or requesting it be inherited from any other position.
 * The "private" conversation that took place, should not have been said "staff" as was described above, but an unofficial group, that this was discussed on. Calling it "staff" decision or discussion was wrong, and the whole scope of the conversation was that it would be good to expand on the GCs, for numerous reasons, as I outlined in this request.
 * The last thing I would note, is the "private" conversation mentioned, was not even only SRE, or Stewards, but other users were also. It was never in an NDA channel, or any channel officially sanctioned by Miraheze, but a private discussion between the more trusted and active users. It was not necessarily a "sensitive" discussion, and the conversation was not meant to make a "decision" on the matter.
 * At least for me, the point of this request, while having no precedent for this exact request, was to in fact involve the community in the decision and discussion revolving around it. This for me was meant to take it out of just private areas into a place where the community could voice their opinion on it as well. Universal Omega (talk) 22:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Given the purpose of the channel has been further clarified to not include private/sensitive discussions, why does it exist only to include 'active and trusted' users if the discussions can be public? John (talk) 22:43, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) What steps would you take to ensure the community remains uninfluenced by such private and closed venues where the community can not suitably or appropriately assess need, necessity or content of such non-sensitive discussions? John (talk) 21:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I kinda answered this question above as well. I think there might have been a misunderstanding on the scope of the discussion that took place, it was not a long discussion, this post (and the ones that followed) are the majority of any discussion that took place prior to the request. Once the discussion was started it took place here, openly to the community. That is the majority of any discussion to have taken place, other then some passive mentioning that additional GCs might not hurt for various reasons (which I do admit I brought up), and potentially expanding them might be needed. But overall, it was not meant to be a solely private, secret, or hidden conversation at all, which was the point of this request, and my nomination for Reception123 below as well. Universal Omega (talk) 22:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This discussion wouldn't have been the first one to have been had in a secretive venue though - so I would like a more broad answer over what steps you'd take to ensure such venues don't continue to be a source of where discussions can be had in private only privy to those allowed, rather than the whole community who should be engaged in them? John (talk) 22:43, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That is fair. I do admit that this probably should never have even made its way into that channel. The conversations to usually take place there are related to some moderation, off-topic, and just random conversations. It's purpose is more inline of a group DM then an actual channel, but the channel is used on IRC to relay from Discord. It has had a place on Discord for years, as just a random conversation between a few users, that I do admit these type of conversations should not take place on. But it has only existed on IRC and relayed for about a day, it was never intended to have conversations that impact the community there, but sometimes things can veer off-course into foggy grounds in the matter. Though nothing ever NDA bound is discussed there. It's purpose has always been, on Discord anyway, as a group DM chat for users to ask others questions, have advisory for some things, or just discuss random things. The conversation that took place yesterday was fairly rare in the scope of it and we typically try to avoid such conversations.
 * I think this also answers your above question as well. I do agree with your point that most conversations should take place public, especially like these. But I don't agree that nothing can ever be private, there is a use-case for some private personal conversations (including between non-NDA users) that do take place, which is why that channel exists.. however, it should be noted that conversations such as these should not take place there in the future. Universal Omega (talk) 22:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) No problems. Though, I don't think Libera Chat reads RfCs, John can certainly ask for it if this is successful Naleksuh (talk) 05:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  CosmicAlpha can be the fully active group contact, since John is in and out. Trusted, not a problem. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 05:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  This is okay. --   Joseph  TB  CT  CA   06:38, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 4)  No issues with this request.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 12:08, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 5)  This is a minimal-effort role that also requires a trusted user that is also an IRC regular.  CosmicAlpha (along with the other two proposed users) will give us an active presence and allow for normal maintenance/continuity of operations --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 16:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 6)  Trusted and active user, no issues with this. |  -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  While I have no problems with Universal Omega becoming a GC, with the recent resignations, and them stating their intent to leave Miraheze as a whole, I don't get the sense that they are going to be very active on IRC. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 14:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Same as my vote on Reception123's request. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 10:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) Per this. There have already been two previous issues regarding targetted harassment, and I did note that if it continued I would not be able to contribute to Miraheze. Yet sadly one of the only people I trusted decided not only to join that club and not only do things unbecoming of a GC even just by things I could see (I wrote a 6000+ word document detailing the issues) yet this morning I see this shit? What the hell?! I suppose this request is just to be able to continue that on a larger power mode. Naleksuh (talk) 16:58, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I accept this, but just to say one thing, I am very sorry for things that have happened. I have never myself been involved in anything you consider harassment, and have always been one to at least try and defend you. It hasn't been a common theme amongst volunteers, as your actions haven't always been great, but I've always understood, trusted, and supported you for the most part. I deeply apologise for everything that has happened. I hope you can at least try and accept my sincere apology for that personally. The content that had been posted were taken put of context and were meant in a jokingly way, but it still doesn't necessarily make it okay for you and understand you may feel in the matter. I am not trying to ask you to switch your vote as I'll admit you're probably right in your oppose based off some things that have happened, but I do still want to offer my own apology for how things played out. Universal Omega (talk) 17:11, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Who made those comments? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 02:54, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Who made what comments? Naleksuh (talk) 02:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The ones on IRC shown by John. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 03:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't confirm myself (John can), but some people were saying Zppix sent them. This is curious because Zppix is not an IRC operator. So either this wasn't an IRC operator discussion and was just the Club in general, or Zppix was not actually the one who wrote them. Naleksuh (talk) 03:08, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * They were taken from Discord, not IRC. Had nothing to do with IRC at the time. Universal Omega (talk) 03:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What is discord? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 03:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) agree with macfan, doesn't make sense for someone who left Miraheze to be our GC. OrangeStar (talk) 13:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) this and future permissions requests based on recent events. I would advise shedding hats instead. --Raidarr (talk) 13:50, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Reception123's Nomination for IRC Group Contact
Mostly for the same reason as my request above, for the reason of balancing things out on IRC as group contacts. I believe Reception123 would be great addition to that as well, as they are very active on IRC, and responsive to requests. It would make sense to have more than just one additional Group Contact as well. For that reason I nominate Reception123 for it as well. Universal Omega (talk) 06:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Universal Omega. I accept the nomination. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 06:46, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Relisting thread. Dmehus (talk) 17:53, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Questions for candidate

 * 1) Below in MacFan's oppose section he said, "A private discussion between Miraheze staff members", do you feel private discussions should be a preliminary aspect of starting community discussions like this? It's interesting that 3 requests have come at once following a discussion that is not public and involving 2 groups labelled as staff when neither are Board appointed? Miraheze has had a long history of having a closed 'old boys' style club where decisions were made in private involving groups that either a) shouldn't be discussing community affecting things privately (stewards) or b) shouldn't be having a major influence on community aspects by definition (SRE). I find it slightly concerning that this line of proposals is coming out of re-igniting such a private and exclusive club. John (talk) 21:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I mostly would associate myself with the extensive answer that Universal Omega has already provided to the same question in his request. As far as I'm concerned, I was caught by surprise in the morning to learn that Universal Omega had nominated me and he simply informed me of this fact via DM. I also wouldn't say that any "decisions" would have been made in any case by this "club" as there was, as far as I'm aware no attempt to influence people involved to vote in any particular way, and certainly I don't think they would have voted differently if the aspect was never discussed in the "club". Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 05:48, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) What steps would you take to ensure the community remains uninfluenced by such private and closed venues where the community can not suitably or appropriately assess need, necessity or content of such non-sensitive discussions? John (talk) 21:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I against associate myself with what Universal Omega has said and think it's important to remind ourselves of the need to be more transparent in our decision making. I do believe that at times it is useful in some cases to have such a group but I don't think that important "decisions" should be made there. As Universal Omega also suggested, I think it's best to compare such a group to a DM, where ideas can be discussed before getting to a stage of actual concrete proposals. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 05:48, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would also add that this group is not at all like the former private SRE group where often decisions were directly made there without community input or transparency, before the role of CES was introduced. I still don't think that it can be said that any "decisions" of any kind are made within this group. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 05:58, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What are your thoughts then on the fact this 'group' is used to created targeted harassment cases of users like Naleksuh and others users by making jokes around things like:
 * "just run DROP NALE FROM *;"
 * "I’d gladly risk my rights to block him on ever wiki I have advanced rights on"
 * "He can’t appeal IRC bans if we globally ban him"
 * "I’d vote a policy that says the cabal can revoke any right, anytime we want 😂"
 * "Thats when we OS it and it never happened"
 * "Fwiw theres not a snowballs chance in hell any of us would support it"
 * Do these comments represent value and Miraheze in a good way? John (talk) 07:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You seem to have a deep misunderstanding of the nature of a collegial work environment. I'm out.
 * Thanks for all the fish, y'all.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 08:01, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * A project has been effectively ruined for such a misguided goal and for the sake of one user that has mistreated the entire volunteer team. Congratulations, truly for this. It's just unconceivable. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have to admit I don’t recall when/where that conversation took place. I’m not even sure I was a part of it. The fact is that private conversations are private for various reasons. It is not up to a single person to just release those messages without first talking to the other people involved in the conversation. Doing so is a violation of trust and respect. I find it very alarming that John thought that it would ever be appropriate. Even if a channel is not NDA bound, you should still talk to everybody else first. To : I want to assure you that SRE was certainly not being serious about any of those comments. I apologize on behalf of SRE, for you suddenly being brought further into this. Sometimes we get annoyed with people and talk to each other about it, but we never mean to disrespect anybody ever, which is exactly why these messages were meant to stay private. It’s understandable that you will be upset by the messages, but I would advise that you don’t escalate the situation further then it has already been. Multiple people are already upset, and I don’t want to make things worse. Mistakes were made, and once again I am deeply sorry that you had to be put in the center of all this. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 12:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel I should comment as those messages are mine, I stated those things either as a joke, or in frustration, under the assumption it was being said privately and among friends, and people I trusted. No action was ever taken because of said messages. Context is important here and leaking these messages without it is a violation of my trust, and quite frankly is unfair, it makes us look like the bad guy, its not uncommon in a workplace for people to say things like this out of frustration and such. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 15:45, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Suddenly, I am not having so much trouble guessing what the WMF banned you for, John.
 * You've tried to make the entirety of Miraheze look bad over this. I really need you to understand that what one person says out of frustration in what is essentially a workplace over incidents like this and this does not reflect Miraheze. Private messages are private for a reason. If someone says something in a channel that Nale can't access, you shouldn't be sending it to Nale without good reason.
 * At least Fandom, which had their marketing and HR team post bogus Glassdoor reviews, doesn't leak private, internal communications because someone got mad at another employee.
 * Bravo. About half of the volunteer team up and quit because you can't respect their basic right to privacy and confidentiality. One of our active Discord users just said they're worried that Miraheze will turn into the next ShoutWiki. You have no idea how to run an organization. Collei (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What is John's WMF account. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 02:56, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No-one's business but John's. Posting off-Miraheze handles without other user's permission is outing. Naleksuh (talk) 02:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Then how does know that he's banned? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 03:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Because Collei did so anyway. Just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it hasn't. Naleksuh (talk) 03:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * stewardsmiraheze.org or tsmiraheze.org can deal with allegations of outing. Of course, referencing someone's Wikipedia account is not outing their personal information, so you won't have much luck reporting me for mentioning that John has a Wikipedia account.
 * Is it outing for me to mention that Reception123's Discord handle is? After all, it's off-wiki contact information, and is even tied to - gasp - a PNG of one of the default GitHub profile pictures. Collei (talk) 04:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Courtesy ping.
 * Could you tell me how you know? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 04:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's been routinely mentioned on the Discord that John has a Wikipedia account and is banned by the WMF for violating a contract while employed at the WMF. Collei (talk) 04:24, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not outing, that's silly .That said, bringing up the WMF ban is a low blow that doesn't help in this or any related case. --Raidarr (talk) 08:30, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, I already acknowledged that a while ago on Discord. Now, I hope we can all agree that Trust & Safety is not going to be globally locking my account for outing someone's Wikipedia username and Discord tag? Collei (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  Per nomination Universal Omega (talk) 06:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) Per my above rationale. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 06:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  I don't know anything about this, but he seems like a decent guy. If you disagree, I am free to change my vote if I find your argument compelling. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 06:38, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 4) per above. by Buehl106·Talk·e-mail 06:40, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 5)  --   Joseph  TB  CT  CA   06:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 6)  Reception123 is a very trusted user and I don't see any issues with this request. I'm not worried about them becoming a 'poweruser' as I trust they're responsible and for the most part, over the course of almost 8 years, they've been responsible and almost generally always non-controversial.  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 12:11, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 7)  No reason to oppose, and Reception123 is clearly capable of this right. Nale's response makes little sense and acts as if someone is forbidden from being both SRE and a Steward (Requests for Comment exists if you want to make a policy on that - there is no policy as it stands). "Reception123 has since backed down from their stance that users who leave messages should get to reinstate them upon removal, exempt from the edit warring policy, but only because of the conversation of removal of warnings" has nothing to do with this. Again, open an RfC if you want to change policy. Someone performing an action that you don't agree with doesn't mean they are unworthy of this right. Collei (talk) 15:48, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 8) Reception123 has maintained presence since near the start of Miraheze as an entity and was active on its predecessors as well.  They are well-regarded and trusted by the community and thus a logical choice for a maintainer role on IRC as outlined above. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 17:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 9)  Same as above application/nomination, trusted and active user, no issues with this. |  -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 10)  Very well trusted user. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 14:46, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) Oppose for several reasons.
 * 1) This request was immediately following Universal Omega's request. Why did you choose to make one then, and not the day before?
 * 2) Hats: This user is already both a Steward and SRE, which I believe there should not be both, and group contact on top of that? This is how "power-users" are formed and it is not good. There should be a limit on how many hats one person can have, and this should be it as well.
 * 3) For the same reason I opposed your RfS: I do not like the idea of inventing your own rules or treating sysops as freemen or even justifying actions on that alone. Community discussions are important, and sysops answer to the community. Reception123 has since backed down from their stance that users who leave messages should get to reinstate them upon removal, exempt from the edit warring policy, but only because of the conversation of removal of warnings. The subject of sysops declaring themselves exempt from edit warring did not come up. I do not want "I'm a group contact so I am right" coming to IRC.
 * 4) With Universal Omega's request above, there is no more need for any group contacts. Naleksuh (talk) 07:08, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would like to note, that this was a nomination from me, and was my idea, not Reception123's initial idea. Me reasoning for this, is that I believe in balancing things out, and Reception123's and my timezones are almost opposites, and with us both very active, one of us would almost always be around. It's understandable that John can't always be around, and lately has not been to much, as such I feel that if my request above is successful, I'd still be the only truly active GC, which doesn't help the situation of not enough GCs. It would be nice to have at least one more there as well. The current situation is almost no GCs being truly active and should both these requests be successful ensure in the future we have more GCs, and it is not dependent on just one for some things at a given time. Universal Omega (talk) 07:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As for the part of "inventing rules" I am sure that I have explained my reasoning before but it seems maybe it was not understood. I'll explain again. Not all rules must be explicitly written down in unambiguous terms - there will be conventions and practices that have developed over time. If the community doesn't like those it can vote and create policies. As for "users who leave messages should get to reinstate them upon removal" that was the practice that was followed by other administrators as well, until the community voted to repeal it. I am not one to claim "I am right" and accusing me of such behavior demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge about me and how I frequently encourage community discussions and RfCs to clarify ambiguous positions. As for the hats issue, I would generally agree with that statement but unfortunately the reality is that we don't have enough trusted volunteers to fill out these positions. If we did, I would not have accepted to run. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 13:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  per Naleksuh. I have nothing personally against Reception123, but I really don't want a 'cabal' here. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 08:21, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it might be pertinent to consider my reply and not simply choose to believe the narrative that Naleksuh has created without being aware of the context. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 13:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I am aware of the context. I understand that you believe it was a convention. But that doesn't mean you have to do it, nor does it mean edit warring to follow it. In particular, one result of that discussion is that "unwritten customs" are just that -- "customs" and should not be treated like policies or result in sanctions. The problem was "unwritten customs" being used to enact policies without them being policies, and I don't really think that was ever a custom. And even if we were to ignore that, it doesn't affect any of the other points-- both that CosmicAlpha is already requesting and that I do not any one person to have too many hats-- you already have more than I think one person should be able to -- no need for more on top of that! Naleksuh (talk) 17:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * > I am aware of the context. I understand that you believe it was a convention. But that doesn't mean you have to do it, nor does it mean edit warring to follow it. In particular, one result of that discussion is that "unwritten customs" are just that -- "customs" and should not be treated like policies or result in sanctions. The problem was "unwritten customs" being used to enact policies without them being policies, and I don't really think that was ever a custom.
 * You have been informed many times before that Miraheze does not follow Wikipedia policies. Please see WPESSAY and WPPOLICY. Just because you don't agree on what is and isn't a convention doesn't mean that Reception123 is unable to become an IRC Group Contact. Everything that you mentioned there has nothing to do with being an IRC Group Contact.
 * > And even if we were to ignore that, it doesn't affect any of the other points-- both that CosmicAlpha is already requesting and that I do not any one person to have too many hats-- you already have more than I think one person should be able to -- no need for more on top of that!
 * Why? If you want there to be a limit to how many roles someone can have, open an RfC, instead of opposing a vote for IRC group contact rights due to your opinion on what non-existent rules should become policies. Collei (talk) 22:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You have been informed many times before that Miraheze does not follow Wikipedia policies. Nowhere in my comment did I mention Wikipedia. Also, you might have the roles reversed. Reception123 was the one trying to treat customs like policies, and I was the one saying no they aren't policies. So, "Miraheze doesn't follow Wikipedia policies" would actually support my case.
 * Why? If you want there to be a limit to how many roles someone can have, open an RfC, instead of opposing a vote for IRC group contact rights due to your opinion on what non-existent rules should become policies. That idea can differ between people and is not something that's easy to measure. That's why I do it this way. If it makes you feel any better, some people blanketly oppose all RfAs because they think there are too many sysops. I don't do that! Naleksuh (talk) 17:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "Nowhere in my comment did I mention Wikipedia." - Yes you did. You are discussing an edit warring, 3RR, etc. policy like they apply here.
 * "That idea can differ between people and is not something that's easy to measure. That's why I do it this way. If it makes you feel any better, some people blanketly oppose all RfAs because they think there are too many sysops. I don't do that! " - I have no idea what this means, but it just seems like "X is worse than Y, so Y is not bad". Collei (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there a 2RR policy here? Naleksuh said I was edit warring for reverting his reinstation of a RevDeled edit. See here. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 18:55, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There is not an edit warring or revert rule policy that I can find at all. Of course, repeatedly re-instating the same edit is disruptive, so action would be taken against it, but claiming that our revert rule and exceptions are the exact same as Wikipedia doesn't comply with WPPOLICY. Collei (talk) 19:27, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, what I was doing was not disruptive - I was removing content that had already been removed and RevDeled. Naleksuh said that what I was doing was disruptive because it was edit warring. See my talk page and Agent Isai's for more. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 21:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd ask Agent Isai for an opinion on this because I am obviously biased against Nale at this point, so I don't want to weigh in on things where I may be unintentionally effected by this bias unless I really need to weigh in. Collei (talk) 21:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 22:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The 3-revert-rule is a Wikipedia policy, though people tend to apply it here when trying to prove themself innocent of edit warring (i.e. I wasn't edit warring, I reverted 3 times in 24 hours and 1 second!). I don't think I've ever mentioned the 3-revert rule myself. I believe that edit warring is considered on a case by case basis, and that when your edit is reverted, you should not reinstate it with very limited exceptions. I do my best to follow this rule myself as well. The content had not been revdelled when I started reverting (and I only reverted once, but Bbbtest revered twice, reverting two different people), but once it had been, I did not revert again. I am also sad to hear that you are "biased against me", but I hope this clears up anything that was vague. Let me know if you are still confused as to what I mean. Naleksuh (talk) 22:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I am also sad to hear that you are "biased against me"
 * Perhaps it was too harsh by mistake but the arguments on Discord/IRC over what I feel are usually petty things make it very difficult to talk to you. I don't mean that in a rude way, but I'm not the only one who's expressed such a concern. Collei (talk) 22:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe that Naleksuh is (overall) in the right and has made valuable contributions to Miraheze, though I do think that he should try to AGF more and be less combative. Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 02:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

MacFan4000's request for IRC Group Contact
Basically for the same reasons as in the above to requests. At least 2 or 3 new GCs would be a good idea so that we have active and available people who can deal with GC related requests. I am currently a GC for a different project, thus I am familiar with the policies and procedures, and am also already in the private GC IRC channel (run by Libera staff). I am reasonably active on IRC and can often be reached with a ping. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 13:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Additional comments given by user (if any)

 * 1) Courtesy comment to keep thread from being archived. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 02:25, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Questions for candidate

 * 1) Below in the oppose section you said, "A private discussion between Miraheze staff members", do you feel private discussions should be a preliminary aspect of starting community discussions like this? It's interesting that 3 requests have come at once following a discussion that is not public and involving 2 groups you're labelling as staff when neither are Board appointed? Miraheze has had a long history of having a closed 'old boys' style club where decisions were made in private involving groups that either a) shouldn't be discussing community affecting things privately (stewards) or b) shouldn't be having a major influence on community aspects by definition (SRE). I find it slightly concerning that this line of proposals is coming out of re-igniting such a private and exclusive club. John (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We simply were talking about and agreeing on the fact that we really need to have another GC that has more availability. I want to make it clear that I did not start the conversation, though I did participate in it. Certainly it may have been a good idea for the discussion to have been held publicly.
 * So my point is more around why does such a channel where a community role and non community role co-exist that is utilised seemingly in such a way that public discussions can be usurped into a private environment to exclude the community from engaging in discussions/decisions initially that revolve around them? John (talk) 22:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly, one could argue that these requests would serve as a public discussion, and if people agree with the issue they can support the request and if they don't they can oppose it. The private discussion ultimately lead to public discussion through these posts. I see no reason that such a private channel could stay in existence so long as more of these discussions are held publicly and no final decision is reached in the private channel. In this case the only "decisions" that took place were me and UO individually deciding to post these requests. I will also mention that I wasn't even part of this channel until yesterday. Also re: your statement about the use of the word staff, I wasn't aware that there was any official definition? I used the term loosely. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:24, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So you see no reason a private channel can't exist to have discussions that should be public but aren't because people who are 'lucky' to be in the channel choose to have such discussions? John (talk) 22:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I never said that. This was more to get support from other people before starting a public discussion. If nobody had agreed that the issue was valid i would not have been pursued any further. For community matter I would always ultimately want public input on the matter, and we are getting it through these requests. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You say that's not the case, but then immediately go to say if this 'private channel' had not agreed it was a problem, you wouldn't have consulted the community - who are the ones who should decide if there is a problem in the first place. Or would you then gone into a public channel to start a discussion over what you had discussed in the private channel that no one agreed with you on? John (talk) 22:48, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Had I been the one starting the conversation, I would have done so publicly. Ether way I probably would have eventually some day posted this request. I had been thinking about it from time to time, but I don't often start discussions, nor do I very often participate in them. I also have no knowledge of any of the previous ones that took place in this channel. In this case requesting a role is a personal decision, and it was helpful to hear opinions before deciding to request the position. If I had decided I wanted even more opinions, I would have talked to more people. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 23:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) What steps would you take to ensure the community remains uninfluenced by such private and closed venues where the community can not suitably or appropriately assess need, necessity or content of such non-sensitive discussions? John (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, I did not start the conservation. I think this would be a better question for to answer. Maybe in the future we hold discussions like this publicly. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I asked explicitly what you would do. John (talk) 22:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I would make sure that if I start a discussion like this I do it publicly unless there is some reason it absolutely has to be private. This one probably could have been public. If somebody does start one of these discussions in private we can make sure not to come to a final decision until public discussion has taken place.

Support

 * 1)  Has both a good reason to request this right and it's already an IRC regular. OrangeStar (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  Diversification with trusted users that are also IRC regulars is wise.  MacFan4000 has proven to be both. --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 16:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  Why does everyone want this right all of sudden? Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 10:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just 3 people have requested this. I guess originally it was because there was only one group contact, now it's because there are no group contacts. OrangeStar (talk) 15:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The original reason was because as of late, the only GC, John has not been on IRC much as of late, and thus it would be good to have somebody who is active and available. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 19:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  I'm not familiar enough with MacFan4000 to vote on this one, so abstain. |  -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Apart from being rather inactive on IRC compared to CosmicAlpha and Reception123, I also find them to be much more problematic both with being more personal and ruder. Also this person used op permissions for personal issues once (disclaimer: I was the target; but it was still a personal issue). Plus, if CosmicAlpha and Reception123's requests pass, there will be no need for FOUR group contacts on such a small project. Please stop this "trend". Naleksuh (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not at all inactive. I am usually available if you ping me. It is frankly disappointing that we are unable to move past previous mistakes which can be learned from. I will note that I made this request following an internal discussion. I will also clarify for other voters that I did not misuse permissions. I was a channel moderator at the time, (and still am). I decided that because of what was happening, a ban was needed. Later another moderator disagreed with the ban and removed. Another moderator had told me at the time of the ban, that they were fully ok with it. It also was not at all for personal reasons. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Internal to what? There's currently only one group contact. Naleksuh (talk) 17:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * A private discussion between Miraheze staff members (SRE, stewards etc). MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's another reason then. I would like to keep groups seperate and have them simply do what they are meant for; not draw some sort of "line" or have a private club. This is actually one of the reasons why SRE are no longer called sysadmins and a lot of their responsibilities were broken up into elsewhere. If you consider these past actions mistakes that you have learned from, I guess that's better than nothing, but there is certainly not a need for four group contacts, especially picked from people who already do far too many other things Naleksuh (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  Similar lines above, permissions have previously been used to be push a personal opinion/side of an argument rather than acting in a neutral capacity. Response to the question I posted as well does not provide me much confidence that they'll act in the community interest as they accepted a private channel to exclude the community from initial discussions is okay where the membership of the channel is decided by those not appointed to manage such a channel bit rather by virtue of their roles in either community or non community environments. John (talk) 22:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That was a single incident. I have learned from that, and now would not make a such a ban without first consulting other moderators unless nobody else was around and it was extremely obvious that a ban was needed. I will restate though that it was not at all for personal reasons, from what I can recall, conduct was getting out of hand and discussions not directly involving me were getting heated. Once again it was not my decision to hold this conversation privately. I would always act in community interest.
 * Respectfully, I find this to be a misread of today's situation. While I believe I understand your opposition to the existence of private channels more generally, private channels do have a role in coordinating relevant sensitive volunteer actions - the use of one such channel was critical in preventing widespread panic during the November/December outages as internal volunteer discussions about recovery were underway.
 * Such a chat taking place in general channels during the incident would have been rife with interruptions, disrupted other necessary support conversations, and been prone to misinterpretations that would have further slowed progress/damaged trust in the Miraheze platform, though admittedly communications weren't perfect in spite of that use.
 * MacFan's 'acceptance' of the channel in question was unrelated to this specific request for GC, but was instead prompted by UO rectifying a long-term disconnect in bridging similar Discord and IRC channels that serve the same legitimate coordination purposes.
 * I do agree that brief discussion about "Hey, there's a need for more GCs, let's put this to the community to decide" probably should have taken place in general instead of a private channel, but the CN was viewed as the correct public forum to broach this for public debate.
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 23:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would agree with NotAracham on this front. The use of private channels are employed in some scenarios when it comes to sensitive information, as NotAracham stated with the db141 outages. While that may have not been the case here, the conversations in question that were done in private channels and served as preliminary ideas. It was not as if the solution that came out of the discussion was to appoint 3 new group contacts without community input. The decision was made to ask for community input. The public has the opportunity to voice their opinions here, now. Just because conversations about Group Contacts were made in private channels does not mean that they were bad. Plenty of conversations are had privately for varying reasons. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I respectfully would disagree that the use of such a channel during the data recovery incident was useful. In my view (and SREs and the Boards), it contributed to a fragmentation of discussion and ultimately lead to the community being poorly informed and at times - misinformed about the situation. This was picked up by SRE and it was agreed that said channel should not be used in the future for such discussions. Therefore, I would argue the justification for the channels existence is moot if that's the primary example. John (talk) 23:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you proposing to delete/archive the channel? BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not explicitly making such a proposal - I'm merely pointing out that public discussions should be public and private discussions private - to channel appears to be used in a way to hide the public discussions at times and publicise the private discussions that should be private. I imagine if we audit the channel, a lot of discussions would either be acceptable to be public or would be deemed private and as such should not be in such a 'public' channel. John (talk) 23:34, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I imagine a review of conversations can be undertaken then. I would ask though for you to reconsider your oppose of MacFan4000. Other than that mishap, they've been an exemplary member in the Miraheze community and are trusted. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 23:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Special Signature
Hello! I would like to know how to have your name and signature different. I would like my name/signature to be, but when I put it as my signature, it gives me the code, not the picture. Also, is there a way to make a picture your actual user name? Or at least have your user name in a special font? I'm thinking about renaming myself Commetian Empire, with that font/picture. Thank you! Commetiaa (talk) 23:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I strongly recommend not using a picture as your signature. Not only is there a risk of manipulation, but there is also a good likelihood that your signature will negatively impact loading times especially when you have multiple instances of your signature on the same page. Instead, as long as the font you want to use is commonly recognized by browsers (not sure how to check that at the moment), you can use some HTML formatting in your signature. Just be sure to check the box under your signature to have it treated as wikitext. For example, you could format your signature like: . Just note that not all fonts are available, and as I couldn't figure out what font your image uses, I'm not sure you'd be able to use it in your signature without getting the font imported for use in the site. --  Void  Whispers 01:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I looked where I got the signature, and the font is "Bilbo Swash Caps". I tried using your HTML, but it didn't do anything. So I'm guessing that that font isn't recognized here on Miraheze. Also, how do you (when you rename yourself) get your user name colored? I've seen it with multiple users like KumihoWolffey; but I've never found out how. Commetiaa (talk) 12:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you check the button below the signature in your user preferences? Treat signature as wikitext (without an automatic link to your user page) should do the trick --LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 21:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, sorry, missed your response. But colors are not a part of the user name. This is a part of the customizable signature, and is something you can add like: . If the name of a color isn't available, find it's hex code and use it instead, like:  . Taking a look at w:WP:Signature tutorial may provide some additional answers to formatting questions. --  Void  Whispers 01:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Sigh
Hello, it is me, Collei. My Discord account tag is Colleiflower#2020. My Discord has apparently been disabled for being under 13, but I've actually indicated that I am fourteen.

I find it more probable that the reason I am actually banned is due to me repeatedly indicating that I am unwilling to report underage users and due to me sometimes deleting messages where people admitted to being under 13, so that the people won't get banned. Another hypothesis is me lying about being over 18 to Discord so that I could view NSFW channels. I am not sure which hypothesis is correct.

I quite frankly do not care. I can get unbanned by holding up a piece of paper with my ID etc. etc. to verify my age, but I am not going to do that. I don't trust Discord with my personal information.

I have an alt that I can use to evade the ban, which I will do, but I am not going to be as active there, as to not get caught by Discord.

You may reach me on Miraheze and Matrix as usual. Collei (talk) 17:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Furthering the second hypothesis, I received the following warning email from Discord:
 * Hello,
 * Discord is focused on maintaining a safe and secure environment for our community. We've found your account to be in violation of our Terms of Service or Community Guidelines. As a result, we're issuing you this warning for the following reason:
 * Your account posted content that sexualized individuals under the age of 18, or was involved in servers dedicated to such unacceptable content.
 * If the behavior continues, you may be banned permanently.
 * Sincerely,
 * Discord Trust & Safety
 * Collei (talk) 17:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think you should be admitting on a public noticeboard that Discord banned your account for what it was banned for, and admitting you lied about being 18. Raichu&#39;s Endless Nights (talk) 14:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, the 'sigh'... are you implying you're angry/upset at Discord for banning your account after you've just admitted you're the one who did something wrong? Why are you posting this? Raichu&#39;s Endless Nights (talk) 14:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I am upset at Discord, because I'm probably the first person on the site to be banned for that. The ban reason also makes no sense, as it explicitly claims I'm under thirteen. I am fourteen. The warning email I received also fails to indicate what it was referring to, so it could be anything I wrote. Collei (talk) 16:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sigh! You were banned for allegedly sexualizing minors.  You are a minor.  Your various defenses are: (1) Others got away with it; (2) The ban notice made a clerical error; (3) There are other users they could ban also/instead; (4) You might have been banned for an omission (I doubt it); (5) If pressed, you could and would evade the ban.  You remind me of myself when I was fourteen!  Perhaps when you are no longer a minor, you will spend less time on technical defenses of misbehavior, and more time on establishing yourself as a person of good faith.   03:08 23-Mar-2023 03:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Correct, if a minor sexualizing another minor is forbidden (I remain unaware of which minor I have sexualized), then adults should be banned for sexualizing other adults, unless there is a specific problem with normal sexual and romantic attraction in humans that starts in teenage years, in which case the burden of proof falls upon you to prove the existence of such an age-exclusive problem. Furthermore, if I was actually banned for sexualizing minors and not for them being certain I'm under 13, then why do they state in the ban message that they have banned me because they think I'm under 13, and then that they allow me to appeal the ban by just giving them my photo ID and a picture of my face, with them explicitly stating this is so they can verify I'm 13 or older? It's not like Discord invades on our privacy constantly, is it?
 * If pressed, you could and would evade the ban
 * I never offered that as a defense. I offered it as a statement.
 * You remind me of myself when I was fourteen! Perhaps when you are no longer a minor, you will spend less time on technical defenses of misbehavior, and more time on establishing yourself as a person of good faith.
 * So to be clear, you are accusing me of acting in bad faith, correct? Also, your 'authority' or 'credibility' here is proved because you are an adult? If you think that's a credible argument, I would encourage reading the book Crimes Against Logic.
 * I regret opening this thread on CN (wrong venue), but I stand by the arguments I've made. Collei (talk) 05:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, try not sexualizing minors on main next time? Weird thing to admit to in public Chantolove (talk) 22:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I should not have mentioned it in public, but given that Miraheze users may intend to contact me on Discord, I thought I might as well post that I'm banned from Discord. I had no intention of mentioning any of this in public, but you cannot take anything back online, so I will deal with the consequences now that Discord is certain I've sexualized some unstated and unknown minor.
 * If you'd like to know, I am not aware of myself sexualizing any minors, though I have made somewhat suggestive comments before about anime and Genshin Impact characters. You can join the Collei Mains Discord server and ask around if my personal life and PNG anime waifus really matter so much to you. Collei (talk) 05:30, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It also might be that you have "sexual content" on your user page. (the Discord picture, it can refer to sexual content) So that be be a case. Just be careful! Commetiaa (talk) 13:05, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If that was the case, they would've removed the offending content.
 * There is nothing sexual about a Genshin Impact character patting another character on the head.
 * Collei (talk) 05:16, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There is nothing sexual about a Genshin Impact character patting another character on the head.
 * Collei (talk) 05:16, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

DPL lists aren't working with navboxes?
Hey all. On my wiki I've been using DPL3 to make lists without having to type them out multiple times. This has been working great on normal pages, but when I try to make group lists in navboxes, pages will disappear from it when you view the navbox on that page:


 * The navbox template where everything is displayed correctly: https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:NavboxCookie
 * One of the pages listed in the navbox: https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Aloe_Cookie#Navigation
 * Aloe's page should be listed between Almond and Amber Sugar in the Epic group; it does appear in the template's page and on other Cookies' pages.

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with how links to pages you're currently on are replaced with plain text, but I can't figure out how to get around it. I've made sure that my DPL navbox template outputs lists in a way that should work with navboxes and I know that my previous navboxes displayed correctly with manual lists (https://ovenbreak.miraheze.org/wiki/Dark_Thunderstorm#Navigation). Should I keep working on this or should I just go back to manually typing out lists for navbox templates? Sorry if this is difficult to understand or isn't explained correctly. Soda Cookie (talk) 01:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Think I know what happened here (as a DPL3 user myself): is missing from your DPL calls. --Routhwick (talk) 09:22, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ahhhhh this is exactly it thank you so much :D So glad I don't have to go back to listing things by hand Soda Cookie (talk) 19:10, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Trying to apologize for disruptive edits, sockpuppets and evasions
Hey. I have just been new to Miraheze, but unfortunately, I feel like I may not be deserved here because previously I have did disruptive edits on the AVID community (even I have been blocked by both Miraheze/AVID on Discord without reason before saying anything). I was also looked at by many users as a ban evader and a sockpuppet, but that was why I wanted to apologize even on DC before you all banned me from your communities and servers.

I am very sorry if this is the case. Yes, I was sock puppet-ing and evading in the past. It was three years ago, but it doesn't erase anything, most importantly not even on the Audiovisual Identity Database. Again, I apologize for it. Why won't AVID nor Miraheze unban me from Discord nor here however? I'm just terrified if that happens. But again, my sincere apologies. I assure it'll never happen again from here on out. DBrown SPS (talk) 07:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * This is a bit strange to me because it's not clear what account you had originally or exactly what you did. If you made sockpuppets en masse and evaded bans then it is no wonder why the ban/lock is in place: it would be technically permanent until successful appeal and this exchange counts as evasion, but depending how the appeal process goes that might be overlooked as long as you use this account responsibly for appeals only.
 * If you want to appeal a Miraheze lock you should make it clear who you were, what you did, and what has changed. You can find details and contact at the global locks page. You clearly aren't banned on discord as you were and to my knowledge still are able to post there unless you mean a previous account. Frankly you wouldn't have been banned there without doing something wrong there (platform locks don't automatically apply to Discord) and that appeal would be a different process. If you follow this process properly then it can all be 'water under the bridge' at a global Miraheze level.
 * Appealing at AVID and their discord server is a separate process to take up with them, although you should go through Miraheze before attempting to appeal there. If the appeal goes well for Miraheze then I can look into an appeal for you on AVID as well on the basis of clemency, they aren't petty and they will consider a well-formed sincere appeal. --Raidarr (talk) 12:55, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Using Ordnance Survey maps in Mediawiki
I am directing this towards Miraheze's head honchos and other volunteers. I posted back on 8 February but no one replied so thought I would ask again. Using maps is a substantial part of The English Lakes website and I'm not even sure if the semantic wiki maps extension allows for integration of other base maps like Ordnance Survey. So, my question is can Ordnance Survey maps be used in mediawiki and if so, is this something that Miraheze will even allow. Would most likely require specific plugins and an OS API key. I see these maps on various other walking related websites but nothing at all with mediawiki usage, very strange. Can someone please let me know either way so I can make future plans for the website, thanks. 14:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just bringing this to the attention of those than can hopefully provide an answer: Thanks.  10:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Seriously, can no one answer this question? I would have probably expected a couple from the five main volunteers not to reply but for no one to reply at all, especially after being pinged, just screams my request is seen as a hindrance. I don't ask for help very often, but it would have nice if someone could have looked into this. I first asked about this two months ago. I would rather be told this is not possible, if it is genuinely so, than to have no response whatsoever, which is just bad manners. Can someone, anyone, let me know if this can be implemented? It would very much be appreciated, thanks. 22:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My guess is you'd get better expertise about this topic on a Mediawiki support forum/channel. If someone there can tell you what is required, then post here and ask if those specific things can be done on Miraheze. Dimpizzy (talk) 23:24, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Try asking at the SuperUser Stack Exchange site. Rob Kam (talk) 08:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Dimpizzy I have asked on the Mediawiki support desk but I don't think anything will come of it. Thanks anyway. 13:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest Stack Exchange as Rob Kam suggested, or the Mediawiki Discord channel, which is pretty active: MediaWiki_on_Discord Dimpizzy (talk) 13:54, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikimedia Foundation/Mediawiki won't suppourt non-Open resources such as the OS. There are a couple of extensions to handle OpenStreetMap maps: Extension:Kartographer and Extension:Maps. Both of these are available to Miraheze wikis, (I have no experience with either one). Rob Kam (talk) 09:06, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rob Kam I have used the Leaflet service of the Maps extension quite a lot and have tried to make it fit with my requirements as best I can. I simply cannot get the Google maps v3 side of it to work in any browser so I gave up with Google. Kartographer is not exactly straightforward. Seems to be overly complicated and you have to create complex templates to make them work/display, so not really designed for the non-tech savvy people like myself, but it would fit better for my needs. I was unaware that every single thing associated with Mediawiki had to be an open resource. If that's the case then my request was futile from the onset. 13:13, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think that is the case. I mean Mediawiki supports the EmbedVideo extension which embeds videos from Youtube, which is not open source. Dimpizzy (talk) 13:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Stopping email spam from various versions of "I will help...."
I am getting a stupid amount of "Spam" emails from people who think I am selling a brand or running a business (my Wiki is for a historical society). They usually start with "I have looked (no you haven't) at your wonderful business site (can't you read then) and it needs improvement... I am a professional (what full-time village-idiot?) and our AI tools can .... blah, blah....". Is there anything we can do about this, or just keep hitting delete?

2A00:23C5:CE07:1701:A52C:350C:33A:4F13 15:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Unless this is happening from Special:EmailUser, Miraheze really has no control over such things. If you've publicly indicated your email address in plaintext format somewhere that might by a reason for that. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 04:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Wiki tag ideas
Hi everyone, Thanks to Joritochip we should soon be able to make wiki tags available as a complement to categories. Tags should not be as broad as categories but must also not be too specific/niche. The idea is that these tags will make it easier to identify wikis with similar topics. There will be 5 tags maximum per wiki.

The purpose of this thread is to invite all users to give us ideas for what wiki tags they'd like to see. Ideally there should be multiple wikis that would potentially use this tag. Examples of good tags: "TV Shows", "Minecraft", "Neighbourhood". Please let us know some suggestions for tags below! Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 04:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Duplicating what I said in Discord:
 * adding tags
 * anime/manga
 * documentation/instructions (would be different from education)
 * reality (or a better sounding name; to indicate that wiki is about real people/events/world/etc)
 * fiction (if existing category "fantasy" is synonymous to it, I suggest to rename it since in majority of cases it's associated w/ magical fiction opposed to sci-fi)
 * sci-fi (per above, to separate from "fantasy")
 * suggestions
 * rename "fandom" to "fan wiki/encyclopaedia" to avoid association w/ FANDOM hosting and the broad term that isn't equal to "wiki"
 * remove "private" from category list and make it instead an automatically added label if user checks private wiki box + upon checking it category/tag dropdown gets disabled
 * support - turn existing categories into tags, essentially leaving only tags for easier appliance, for example if wiki fits better into two categories instead of one category and tags; per Joritochip
 * KatozzKita (talk) 06:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition to all the categories today that would also make great tags, some other ideas...
 * Adult/18+/NSFW
 * Alternate History
 * Archival
 * Constructed Language (as an offshoot of Language/linguistics)
 * Genealogy
 * Social
 * Technical Support
 * Worldbuilding
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 06:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Are there any topics that aren't allowed to be discussed on Miraheze, even with appropriate warnings?
Hi! Just like what it says on the title, I'm wondering if there's anything that isn't allowed to be discussed here on Miraheze-- I'm currently setting up a wiki for a handful of games, but some of them include disturbing topics and I'd like to make sure that mention/discussion of them is OK, or if we should just keep things brief. I glanced over the FAQ, but couldn't see anything relating to it ^^;

Thank you for your patience!! Gavinom123 (talk) 18:00, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The Content Policy outlines what types of content are and aren't allowed on any Miraheze wiki. As long your wiki doesn't contain anything that violates this policy, it should be fine. Tali64³ (talk) 18:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As Tali mentioned, there's Content Policy, however you can't say that taboo topics are completely prohibited (examples - transgressive works like Lolita, events that happened in real life), just avoid overdetailed descriptions and use warning notice + general disclaimer, I guess. As long as harmful actions aren't glorified/encouraged mentioning them shouldn't cause a problem. KatozzKita (talk) 05:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Deleting invalid pages
I've got a page that somehow managed to exist with a lowercase title and I have yet to figure out a way to properly delete it. How do I do that? DarkErmac (talk) 23:10, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * That's actually very interesting. How did the page get its all-lowercase title? Tali64³ (talk) 23:34, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * It looks like this occurred because you changed the wgCapitalLinks setting in ManageWiki/settings. Have you tried disabling it again, deleting the page, then re-enabling it? Joritochip (talk) 23:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That did the trick. Thanks! DarkErmac (talk) 01:07, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

interwiki entries for 3 wikis
superwiki

smallvillewiki

dariawiki Remove  &

Thanks ahead! Ora &#38; D (talk) 14:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * This is now ✅
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 16:09, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Database lock??
When I attempt to edit my wiki I get "Warning: The database has been locked for maintenance, so you will not be able to publish your edits right now." There was not any warning of this and it does not appear to happen on other wikis. Why is this happening? (The wiki I am referring to is landar.miraheze.org) Bbbtest (talk | contribs | e-mail) 17:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Should be fixed now, for more details on what happened, see T10117 OrangeStar (talk) 18:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Decyclopedia is celebrating National Admin Day
If you're an administrator on any wiki, you know how hard being one is. To give people a sense of what it's like being an admin, I've given any user with an account some admin permissions on my humor wiki, Decyclopedia for this day and April 1st only. Remember to admin responsibly!

(Obviously, this is an April Fools' joke.) Tali64³ (talk) 21:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Gradient CSS/Subscribe on Wikis
1. Hey, I have been wanting to have my name in color, but I don't know how. I found out on another Wiki the coding for one color for your Username, but I would like to have two colors. Here is my Global CSS thing. How do you make it two colors without gradient? (The colors I would like are #00B1CB and #CC0000) I would like the first color to stop halfway. 2. Is there a way to have the "Subscribe" option on other Wikis; like the one on here? (MH Meta) And if you edit in the topic you are automatically subscribed to? I have been wanting this for a while, on the Wikis I run, since it's kind of awkward when you don't know when the other person you were talking to answered. Thanks! Commetian Empire (talk) 23:53, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * For #1, Just as you set your signnature before, you can go to User menu > Preferences. Look for the field with the "New signature:" label directly above it. In that field, you can do something like the following, wrapping your link text in HTML span tag styled with a bit of css:

Commetian Empire
 * Commetian Empire


 * For #2, there's also already a User menu > Preferences (Watchlist tab) option, under the "watched pages" section, to "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist." I'd suggest looking through all users preferences to become acquainted with that is there, and enabling those you'd find useful. | -- FrozenPlum   19:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * (#1) I'm not talking about your signature; I'm talking about the CSS page that changes what your Username looks like on all wikis. (Like this Users') I believe it must be CSS coding only. I don't know though. Also, what would it look like if it was gradient? (#2) Is there a ManageWiki option for it? What I'm talking about is the little [Subscribe/Unsubscribe] on the right side of a topic. Commetian Empire (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Add interwiki entries for companyball wiki
(1) https://companyballwiki.miraheze.org ★ Commander Xiaochan ⚡ (Talk to me for fun) 01:50, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * This is ✅ --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 16:02, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

RfC: Add ads on Miraheze

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Thank you all for the rubber stamp, ✅. All eligible volunteers will receive a hefty payout to their PayPal account from "payments@fandominc.com" starting this week Agent Isai  Talk to me! 00:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

We do charity work around here! How many of you have spent hours babysitting others on the internet for free? I know I've spent countless amount of hours in front of a keyboard trying to get some internet brownie points. We should all get paid! Therefore, I suggest we add advertisements to all wikis. I'm talking about huge banner ads, in-line ads, sidebar ads, footer ads, ads that pop up when you click links, search ads, ads in your personal settings, ads on the login screen, ads everywhere! We should also sell personal data to Google and Facebook to cash in extra. From there, Big Brother will obviously take 99.9999% of the profit, as part of a convenience fee for facilitating this and everyone else can get the vast riches left over from that. It's only fair! [ April Fools! ] Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  As proposer  Agent Isai  Talk to me! 04:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  Yep, "huge"! |  -- FrozenPlum  (Talk / Email) 08:31, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  Aditionally, we should consider requiring cryptocurrency payments whenever one edits the wiki. Edits of less than 250 bytes = 0.01 bitcoins, over 500 = 0.1 bitcoins, and over 750 = 5 bitcoins. I believe this will assertively transform customer directed collaboration and idea-sharing. OrangeStar (talk) 08:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 4)  Oh my Clearsight?! Why didn't we think of this earlier? Who doesn't love when you can't even edit a page, it's so laggy! I love it!!! I AM IN YOUR CLOSET HAHA (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 5) times  times  times . If we allow ads here, it only makes sense to let users advertise as well. Decyclopedia is celebrating National Admin Day! For today only, any user with an account has admin permissions! Don't miss out! Tali64³, the slayer of vandals (talk) 14:52, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 6) This is AMAZING!!! i love ads and we should add them in miraheze for the first time! The time is NOW  (talk) 15:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 7) Beware of the date! --LilyLilyu - smile.svg talk and I will listen · Lilypond Wiki 09:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  Ads make everyone smile! Ora &#38; D (talk) 09:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Support
12½. Strongest Suppose ++Raidarrr (dont @ me) 12:68, 1th April 20230 (ETC)

Comments
Please direct comments to noreply@undefinedmiraheze.org where they'll be answered in 1-3 business millenias.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Problem with a certain type of audio file
Hello. I tried to set up an audio file system similar to this one : But it only worked halfway, as you can see here : https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Test The audio file does not work. Would you have a solution for it? My Common.css: https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css My Common.js: https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js Thanks in advance. Darkrai18 (talk) 19:19, 1 April 2023 (UTC) Darkrai18 (talk) 19:19, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Upload OggPlayer_play.svg. Rao (talk) 19:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rao Is it a file? Where do I download it? Darkrai18 (talk) 19:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Important addition, it's a script taked from FANDOM's dev wiki - https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/OggPlayer
 * I suspect it's tied w/ FANDOM's own audio player and has to be fixed to work w/ TMH extension, but I don't know, maybe it's something else. KatozzKita (talk) 20:50, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @KatozzKita I don't really know much about code so I'm waiting for other opinions. Thanks anyway. I'd like to point out that it worked halfway through, so I don't think all is lost. Darkrai18 (talk) 20:53, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Request for local interwiki table change
I'm the bureaucrat of theredpionnerwiki, and I'm here to request a change for the local interwiki table.

Creeper19472 (talk) 08:36, 3 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you also add whether you'd like forward or transclude options? zhwp is currently redirecting to en.wikipedia.org, though I realize that isn't the prefix you're requesting. Just wanted to add that as the two are similar. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 15:20, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Commons would also overrule the current global interwiki prefix, which redirects to Miraheze Commons. Just wanting to confirm that you'd like to override that as well. And upon checking, the current global interwiki prefix for WMF Commons is . And   and   currently redirect to zhwikipedia. BrandonWM (talk • contributions • global • rights) 15:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

DISPLAYTITLE help?
The links pasted in the article follows DISPLAYTITLE on this wiki. → tiki.miraheze.org Could someone tell me any way to prevent the DISPLAYTITLE from affecting to the links?(e.g. Uncyclopedia successfully prevented this) $wgDisplayTitleFollowRedirects is not going to be solution to this, and I guess $wgDisplayTitleExcludes is connected to this problem, but I couldn't find it in Special:ManageWiki/extensions/displaytitle あーあ (talk) 17:49, 3 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, the DisplayTitle extension only provides the functionality of updating links to a page's DISPLAYTITLE property. Setting the display title using DISPLAYTITLE is instead dependent on the options $wgAllowDisplayTitle and $wgRestrictDisplayTitle (found on Special:ManageWiki/settings under Parser Functions). -- Void  Whispers 01:09, 4 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you! --あーあ (talk) 05:07, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

MediaWikiChat and WikiForum doesn't work on zhtranswiki
Special:Chat shows no chat log, and Special:WikiForum does not exist. 沈澄心 (talk) 09:07, 4 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Your wiki is private and we can't see anything, basically. But as general advice - are you sure the corresponding extensions are enabled? If your wiki was down during November server incident, it might worth to try disabling and enabling them again. KatozzKita (talk) 09:44, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried but it doesn't work. 沈澄心 (talk) 10:13, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * These extensions are now disabled on zhtranswiki. 沈澄心 (talk) 11:29, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Remove Resent Changes from Page-side
How do I remove the little section of recent changes on the side of a page in the "Cosmos" skin? I am making pages that shouldn't have the little recent changes section. Is there a way to get rid of it? Here are the two pages I need it to be removed on. and. Or can I make multiple "Main Pages"? Since I don't want to make whole different Wikis for them, and Miraheze isn't accepting them anyways. Commetian Empire (talk) 12:57, 5 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you mean just remove the link that says "Recent changes"? Probably the easiest way is by enabling the CSS extension, then adding this code to the pages that you don't want the link to appear on:
 * Dimpizzy (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dimpizzy (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dimpizzy (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dimpizzy (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dimpizzy (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

SpriteSheet Usage
I've read the Usage section for the extension and its given Example, but how exactly does one use the SpriteSheet after installing it? I've added the MediaWiki SpriteSheet extension on my wiki, but it's taking far too long to "save sheet". I've reloaded, cleared cache, tried the next day, but it won't save the spritesheet for the png I want to make sprites/slices of. What am I doing wrong, or is there an issue with the SpriteSheet? Please and thank you for any help. Aixi (talk) 00:18, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * You're not alone. See T10512 (filed in mid-February by yours truly). --Routhwick (talk) 00:18, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I see. That's a shame. I had hoped to use it as an alternative to uploading cropped files... Have you found an alternative extension that does something similar, or an alternative method? So far I'm achieving a similar effect via css (translate, scale) but would like a simpler/standardized approach. Aixi (talk) 04:36, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * this appears to be a bug with SpriteSheet. Collei  ( talk ) ( contribs ) 04:47, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Read-Only Wiki
How do i make a wiki that is read-only, that can be viewed like a normal wiki, but only Admins can edit? Patito cafe  18:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi. You would need to go to Special:ManageWiki/permissions and remove 'edit' and 'createpage' from the * and user groups and only assign it to admins. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 18:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I just noticed i didn't activate the "read" permission :/ Patito  cafe  18:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, when i log out, i still cant read any other pages than Main Page Patito  cafe  18:39, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's likely that the wiki is a private wiki in that case. You would need to change it to Public via Special:ManageWiki Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 19:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I forgot to change that Patito  cafe  20:09, 6 April 2023 (UTC)