Community noticeboard

A warning for Miraheze regarding AVID
This isn't a warning per se, but a notice. A YouTuber by the name of DefunctLand has noticed the wiki AVID. Given the size of this youtuber, AVID will grow rapidly, and it may/may not crash Miraheze. To Miraheze admins: Please keep watch to the host, as you will be seeing record breaking views and new users joining. LINK TO MENTION: https://youtu.be/b_rjBWmc1iQ?t=3047 Thanks.jrStudios (talk) 12:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Use HTTPS in interwiki URL if the external server supports TLS
Some interwiki URLs still use HTTP protocol, and some of them should be upgraded to use HTTPS protocol. For example, wiki http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 can be upgraded to https://wiki.c2.com/?$1. AkiGoto (talk) 18:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Anyone interested in security for visitors? --AkiGoto (talk) 23:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

What is a 'reception wiki'?
Following the closure of this RfC which formally prohibited for an indefinite amount of time the creation of new 'reception wikis,' a number of users expressed concern about the fact that there was no solid definition of a 'reception wiki' which leaves what it is up to the judgement of a wiki creator. Per my close of the RfC, I am initiating this community discussion to collect thoughts about how a 'reception wiki' for purposes of the RfC. From this discussion, I will then open a vote to see what community members think the definition of a 'reception wiki' should be. Agent Isai Talk to me! 15:26, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like a reception wiki is a wiki about 1) living or fictional individuals (Incredible/Loathsome Characters Wiki), groups or other immaterial things (Friday Night Funkin' mods, Ugly Logos Wiki, Crappy Software Wiki), 2) with a name that lists a good or bad attribute (incredible, garbage, astonishing, big etc., so anything or anyone subject to articles in that wiki is associated with this attribute) and 3) dedicated solely to this (per the About the reception wikis section). OrangeStar (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * reception wikis are wikis that describe good or bad qualities of media. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 15:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll take my best shot at this.
 * A 'reception wiki' is a wiki that primarily aims to describe what makes X so bad or so good, according to X's reception. Rarely, both at the same time. This does not mean wikis which cover media but typically include a 'Reception' section. --Blad  (talk • contribs • accounts) 17:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The most accurate definition of a reception wiki I made is the following: a wiki that documents the reasons for a subject's reception through a series of numbered pointers. The good and bad qualities are usually separated with headers "Why It Sucks/Rocks" and "Redeeming/Bad Qualities". Tali64³ (talk) 19:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with you because these types of wikis you're described attracts biased content, controversies and dramas, and even outright disruptive editing. Also, some if not most pointers on Qualitipedia-like reception wikis (including character wikis) are unsourced, making it difficult or even impossible to verify these pointers are not made up. I'm not saying reception wikis are inherently bad, I'm just saying these wikis are controversial and prone to drama. TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 02:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * All of the above are too narrow and fail to sufficiently cover the amount of factors that make up reception wikis. Unfortunately the clearest way to explain is simply by pointing out examples of how things work. Individual points don't make a reception wiki. Most or all of the points together do.
 * Binary scope: (Good/Bad/Neutral-Decent-Average-etc) (thing) Wiki. Exception, certain wikis that glue the two together which hint at other factors or are clearly trying to subvert this principle explicitly.
 * Formula: The substance of a mainspace page is bullet points of indeterminate size and quality, designed to 'rant' about certain components of the thing. Sometimes they'll come with sources of various quality. The objective is to list these things, not necessarily to explain where they came from, how they connect together (though some particularly long-winded pages do go in bullet point paragraphs to partially achieve this) and critically they rarely take a third party point of view and tend to read as primary or secondary sources.
 * Overall slant: The above format will typically accompany a short, often pasted from Wikipedia opening or similar in style blurb; a tagline of indeterminate creativity, the main course of above, trivia and possibly a separate reception section attempting to tie in the pointers to how the 'thing' was popularly received. If the overall reflects a personal blog or an attempt to find consensus on a piece of material is completely at the mercy of who is writing the article.
 * Management: Less crucial since this is broad and not reception wikis specifically, but the following observations are often shared. Founders/owners are treated with a degree of reverence. Admins and bureaucrats tend to have far greater agency and get away with more nonsense than in a truly Wikimedia-inspired community. In the past this came with arbitrary decision making and decidedly petty block reasons, but it's more recently been infused with 'sloppy RfCs' and some attempt at rules (though often, in finding a reception wiki the rules tend to be less than ideal and often make things more confusing). Main page wise there are pretty much two types and the commonalities are uncanny; either the "new" front page eyesore that is iconic for Qualitipedia or an older style that slaps rules, staff and a basic description/tagline on the main page.
 * Other factors come in but they're more individuals or trends that aren't as strongly tied with how reception wikis work, while the above tend to be the main commonalities that come together and you end up with what is known as a reception wiki. --Raidarr (talk) 11:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarification. However, this begs the question because this type of wikis with these commonalities above may have ruined Miraheze's reputation, is closure of original reception wikis on FANDOM/Wikia justified? TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 04:16, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how this question is pertinent. Fandom/Wikia's closures are based on their own approach which is mainly 'feel' for what they think is best for their platform's image and advertising, and more recently the types of content they want to promote. It's up to them, indeed, it's out of community input in that case. --Raidarr (talk) 11:25, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I honestly agree with you. The closure of reception wikis in Miraheze, in other hand are closed following the successful RfC for Qualitipedia wikis, and for TF&HW and other user reception wikis, it was closed as of result of Content Policy and/or Code of Conduct violations iirc. TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 22:48, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Note from SRE Regarding the Swift Migration
On behalf of SRE,

As we have been mentioning for months, we are finally going to be beginning our file storage migration from our current software (GlusterFS) to a new, more modern software (Swift). GlusterFS is an outdated and inefficient technology. It has frequently caused issues with our MediaWiki performance, and some of the sporadic 503s can be attributed to it.

Swift is a much more modern storage software, which is used by the Wikimedia Foundation, and has better performance for the high volume of traffic. We have been working hard to get everything in order, and working with this new storage solution. There should hopefully not be to many user-facing interruptions during this migration, but you could at some points during it experience some issues. If you do, please let us know.

We have already started the migration by first switching over all new wiki creations to use Swift. Soon we will begin switching other wikis over. We will be doing it so that all wikis starting with the letter "a" will be switched over first, then once they are done, all wikis starting with the letter "b" will be switched over, and so on and so forth. We expect the total timeframe of the migration to last around one month before all wikis are switched over.

However, there is one unfortunate side-effect of this: during the migration, and potentially a little bit longer after the migration is done, we have to disable the ability for wikis to generate their own dumps using Special:DataDump. If you need to request a dump before we are able to get it working again, please request so on Phabricator.

— Universal Omega (talk) 20:50, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * AdvanceWarsWiki's images uploaded before 18:12 are showing up as errors. . The one I uploaded recently is ok though . OrangeStar (talk) 18:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This issue is no longer happening, the first two images returned but the third got lost, I just decided to reupload the third and move on. The migration to swift looks like a success in that wiki, because I feel like the wiki's loading times are reduced notably, but still, it's a wiki that basically I edit and read only myself for now, we'll see how it goes in more famous wikis. OrangeStar (talk) 22:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I apologise for the issues that occured earlier. The issue at that time was caused by a configuration change that has been fixed. Please let me know if you encounter any further issues. I will note however, that during this migration there may be times that a few images might not appear correctly. That is because they are still being copied over to Swift. It shouldn't be a highly common occurrence, but it may happen at some times. Perhaps for a few hours to maybe a day or so. Universal Omega (talk) 05:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I’m lucky that I was on Googlepedia (mh:google:Main Page). It is editable and loaded content quickly as of now. Silicona (talk) 12:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for Feedback: Categories and the tagging system

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Thank you everyone for your participation in this RfF. Your opinions help SRE implement features on Miraheze and improve your experience. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 20:03, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

For years now, Miraheze has used a categorization system which is integrated into WikiDiscover and is supposed to allow users to easily find wikis that they're interested in. Over time however, many users have expressed discontent with this system as the current categories are either too wide or to vague and their wikis may fall into only a specific category within a category or they may fall in multiple categories and thus their category very loosely fits them.

For a long time now, we have been discussing the possibility to adding a new 'tags' system and it seems that it is a necessity now. By allowing wikis to use tags, these wikis would be easier to find when using WikiDiscover as a user would be able to use multiple tags to find a wiki that matches all of them for example. There are two main ways this can be done, one proposes categories be kept but that they be complemented by tags which would allow you to narrow your search within a category. Another is to abolish the category system and replace it entirely with a tagging system. So now, we want to hear from you. What do you think we should do going forward? Let us know below and help SRE shape the future of WikiDiscover and categories. Note: If you oppose both proposals that means that you wish to keep the current category only system. Agent Isai Talk to me! 04:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 1: Keep categories and add tags

 * Categories will be kept as they are but in addition it will be possible to add a maximum of 5 pre-defined tags for each wiki

Support

 * 1)  While I generally wouldn't vote in an RfF I thought I should here. The reason why I think we should preserve categories in addition to tags is because it would allow us to see what how many wikis dedicated for a main topic we have (gaming, fandom, etc.). I also think some wikis would still like to have a main overarching category that defines their main scope as well as more specific additional tags. For example, Meta's main category would be "community" but it could also have tags like "central wiki" and "official wiki" or something like that depending on what we might later decide regarding tags if they are implemented. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 08:09, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  While I'm generally in favor of Proposal 1 (retaining legacy wiki categories for those that make use of them just makes sense, tags seem like they add depth and enhance categories instead of being a distraction), I'd like to hear any compelling arguments for the alternative before fully supporting this option. NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 08:21, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  I feel like this option will work very well if all tags are more specific in comparison to categories, in order to make both features differ enough. It would allow for both broad and more detailed categorisation, of course if all tags are available regardless of the category chosen (so the problem of wikis that can fit in many categories isn't made worse). I can see the benefit of being able to group wikis into main categories and then narrow the number of results from there using tags for sure.  Xena   (talk)  09:17, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  Searching for new wikis on Miraheze is nothing short of a chore, not helping that Miraheze wikis aren't optimized for SEO, meaning wikis are even harder to find on search sites. Most attempts to mediate the issue have been middling at worst, and somewhat helpful at best, and I think this would be for the better. Tags could be a great way to find wikis in my interest, possibly a wiki search system could make tags extremely useful. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 11:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5) as I belive it will make it easier to find wikis, ESPECIALLY since we have over 5000 wikis --The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 14:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6) I think categories should be kept, but it makes sense to add tags. OrangeStar (talk) 17:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 7)  It seems to me that the main argument that exists for keeping a single category system in addition to a novel tagging system is for statistical purposes. I will admit I am not very convinced by this argument but I also believe there is no disadvantage to also keeping main broad categories. In either case I believing that allowing for more specific tags for wikis may be beneficial to them for searching purposes.  --DeeM28 (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 8) per above. Tali64³ (talk) 22:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 9) Miraheze will be easier to use if this is decided. by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 09:58, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 10) I like the idea of retaining categories to allow wikis to set a broad "topic", with the tags providing any additional necessary detail. I'd also like to see the categories list reworked slightly to remove any overly specific categories and add a "multiple categories" option. Sario528 (talk) 12:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 11) I run a small wiki on here, [memebattleroyale.miraheze.org this is the wiki] and I will use tags. If they're easy to use. Garfnoblade (talk) 23:01, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Remove categories and add tags

 * Categories will be completely replaced by tags and a maximum of 5 pre-defined tags for each wiki

Support

 * 1)  (While I'm already supporting Proposal 1, I have a few reasons to support this one as well) Removing categories altogether might be the way to fix the problem of wikis which scope fits into more than one category. For the ease of transition, all current categories could be added as respective tags, so broad categorisation would still be possible, but optional. I feel like using tags only could make the searching system more free, but only if checking all available tag options is doable easily (just like now while choosing the category, they all appear in a drop-down list).  Xena   (talk)  09:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  For the reasons given in Proposal 1 I support adding tags to wikis. I am mostly indifferent as to whether they complement or replace categories but I support the idea of giving wikis the choice to also have tags and be discoverable via Special:WikiDiscover. --DeeM28 (talk) 19:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  No real point in doing this. Tags would be helpful but not helpful enough to completely replace categories. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 11:14, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  In most cases, categories are useful for determining the "general location" of a wiki a user wants to find. Tags are a supplement to help decrease the amount of wikis the user has to sift through to find the one they want. Tali64³ (talk) 19:03, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1) While I am generally more in favor of Proposal 1, I'd like to hear any compelling reasons to remove categories entirely instead of just adding more emphasis on tags on discovery-related pages before making up my mind. NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 08:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Image display issue
I'm still aware of the file migration currently ongoing, but wanted to note that the Gnawty article on DKpedia has been having issues with displaying its images (because they're still on static.miraheze.org instead of static-new.miraheze.org, the latter of which it's pointing to) yet Donkey Kong article seems to be displaying just fine Bawitdaba (talk) 22:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like you're having the same problem as AWW. It's because the wikifarm is migrating to a new storage backend. Give it some time and it will solve itself. OrangeStar (talk)
 * I'm very sorry, I didn't read your message fully, it seems you already know about the migration. Give it some time and it will solve itself when the files are copied over. OrangeStar (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Good to know, thank you Bawitdaba (talk) 18:14, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Request to leave Miraheze
Unfortunately, I have to leave Miraheze for my academic life. Do you apply global barrier?  Hey Türkiye  message? 16:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You can request this at Steward's noticeboard as a Global Lock. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 16:10, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

How to fix/debug: This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested
Probably a total rookie question, but I've read about how to handle files and see nothing related, so ...

I'm getting the error "This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested" when I try to access a file I just uploaded. I used the "Upload files" link under Tools in the menu at left. I did not see any options on the upload relating to setting upload location or permissions. The FAQ on handling files reads as if everything should just work -- it has no info on config that needs to be set to allow permission, and seems to have no info on problems like mine. I should mention that this is a PDF file. I've enabled the PDF Handler and PDF Embed. I would welcome help, even RTFM if you can point me to the FM that I haven't discovered so I can R it. I have tried both and File:filename.pdf. I can see the file on "Special pages:File list", and it knows it's a PDF. I'm too ignorant to know what to look at next. Thanks. Rreynolds (talk) 17:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Is this still occurring? What wiki is this happening on? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

How do I make a bot for my wiki?
I wanted to make a bot for my Talk About It! wiki but I have no clue how to make one. I wanted one so the bot would make randomized post and upload random images for random threads and random replies and just overall do things on my wiki so it wouldn't close down (basically a bot that acts like a random mirahezen). Does any steward know if this is possible and if I can clone those bots too? CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ummm, I doubt Stewards will like that kind of bot. OrangeStar (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If you want to avoid your wiki from being closed down due to inactivity, and have a good reason, you should request a Dormancy Policy exemption, instead of making these kinds of bots. OrangeStar (talk) 20:54, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Moved to Community noticeboard as this isn't a matter for Stewards. As for your question, are you using DPLForum or something for your wiki? Agent Isai  Talk to me! 21:44, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok but I still want the bots. May I have the bots? --CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 17:28, 4 November 2022 (UTC) I want the bots for funny funny purposes--CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 16:20, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I doubt anyone is going to help you write that kind of bot. OrangeStar (talk) 17:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

>:( --CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 01:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Bots must be manually coded by a user (presumably you) and run on a computer (can be anything really, Rasberry Pi, Windows 10, etc). It's a long process, so I highly suggest reading this page on mediawiki.org. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 18:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ok CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:26, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * does it work with scratch? that's the only coding language I know :/ CharlieFiddlesticks (talk) 19:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably not. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:33, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for changing my wiki's local interwiki table
I need one of Interwiki Administrator to modify my local wiki's interwiki table.

Local Wiki: sfacgn.miraheze.org

Desired local interwiki table entries: ShengFu (talk) 08:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, kindly give my account (User:Ugochimobi) a member right or make your wiki public in Special:ManageWiki for the meantime. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   12:51, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have changed your account with "Confirmed users", "Editor", and "Member" groups. And changed the local wiki to public. Anything else? ShengFu (talk) 14:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * All done. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   15:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I have tested some interwiki links, and they work as I wish. You done a very good job. ShengFu (talk) 15:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

survey/poll regarding donation models
It is likely that many Miraheze users have seen developments related to a social media platform and a new funding model that its new owner has in mind. Miraheze is different as it is a non profit company and all funds must go to the platform and nothing ele. Miraheze's current donation model is simple - people donate the sum of their choice at the date of their choice. Miraheze's current spending model (as I understand it to be) is also relatively simple - funds go to servers/infrastructure and associated costs. As an experiment I would like to address some questions in the form of a poll/survey to the community. I know this is very unusual and it is likely that I will not elicit many responses. I will say from the outset that I do not believe that these questions will garner much support but I simply wish to confirm my prior thoughts about what the commnity's views on the matter are. DeeM28 (talk) 12:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Important Clarification: I wish to make clear that I have had no discussions with anyone affiliated with Miraheze about this and this is something I have thought about enterily by myself. I do not wish people to believe that this proposal is being made by someone affiliated to Miraheze and this is something planned for the future as some people may worry about this. --DeeM28 (talk) 12:25, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

=== #1: Would you be in favor of a specially created 'role' on Miraheze that would have to donate a small sum (i.e. $5/month) and get minimal additional "features"? If yes, what "features" would you have in mind? ===
 * 1) Opposing for features. The donator role is fine. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) All of Miraheze's features should be available to anyone, regardless of if they have donated. Locking features behind a paywall is a step closer to YouTube and is not where any wiki farm (even Fandom, a for-profit that is chock full of ads) wants to go. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * More like a step closer to Discord. Naleksuh (talk) 16:19, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) because there is no need for this --The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 14:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) "Freemium" in this way (locking off features that already exist natively in MediaWiki) seems wrong. I could entertain tipping extension-builders or creating a small pool for developer compensation, though that could form its own rats-nest of conflict and diluted run-the-business revenue for Miraheze proper.  NotAracham (Talk | Contribs) 18:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 4) I just don't like these kinds of things. OrangeStar (talk) 19:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 5) It would sound like Miraheze is adding microtransactions if passes. However, the "donator" role is fine as long as it doesn't have additional rights (therefore it is not pay-to-win as usual with cosmetic microtransactions). TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 18:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

=== #2: Would you be in favor of a system where wikis which are consuming a very large amount of disk space and/or have a large user base should have to pay a minimal donation to Miraheze? (this would be a small sum) ===
 * 1) No opinion --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) for similar reasoning as my vote in Proposal 1. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 4) Communities and individuals already have the opportunity to donate should they feel the desire to do so, I'd prefer we set reasonable boundaries as a community for 'acceptable resource use' instead of creating a pay-for-play system of tiered products. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:48, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

#3: Would it make you want to contribute to Miraheze's technical team (such as a developer or infrastructure engineer) if you were paid a small amount of money for some tasks?

 * 1) No opinion. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 12:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) This sounds a lot like users making money off of a non-profit. I'm not sure about British laws governing non-profit corporations, but if Miraheze were located in the United States, this would be a huge legal issue. Tali64³ (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2022 (UTC) Struck out reasoning because it was flawed. However, my vote still stands. Miraheze is a community of volunteers, not a for-profit business. Tali64³ (talk) 18:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, Miraheze isn't considered to be a "non profit" in the UK since the only similar structure that exists is "charity" which Miraheze wasn't eligible for. It operates as a "not-for-profit" and as such all donations go back to the project itself. At this time there are no plans to pay volunteers and funds are allocated to infrastructure and related costs. As a side note though, I'm sure larger non-profits in the US do pay their employees and volunteers for their work. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:42, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Non-profits can pay their employees, see the Wikimedia Foundation as an example, and in many cases (in the United States at least) must pay them under the Fair Labor Standards Act. What non-profit indicates is that a corporation isn't operating with the goal to earn a profit or to prioritize profits over their goal. Miraheze however is a not-for-profit organisation. Not-for-profit further means that most, if not all money funnels back to the organisation to try and keep it afloat which is what we are, we don't pay anyone, but that doesn't restrict being compensated for work. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 14:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) this would go against the founding principles of Miraheze Rob Kam (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Quoting Agent straight from above, Non-profits can pay their employees, see the Wikimedia Foundation as an example, and in many cases (in the United States at least) must pay them under the Fair Labor Standards Act. What non-profit indicates is that a corporation isn't operating with the goal to earn a profit or to prioritize profits over their goal. Miraheze however is a not-for-profit organisation. Not-for-profit further means that most, if not all money funnels back to the organisation to try and keep it afloat which is what we are, we don't pay anyone, but that doesn't restrict being compensated for work. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 16:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) I have seen other not-for-profits go this route with some success - given that a stable foundation is critical to delivering on the intended mission, increasing the incentive to attract/retain SRE/developers/infrastructure team members even by a minor gratuity may be worth considering.  That said, my weak support is due to concerns about potential labor & employment law problems down the road if pursued. NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) I personally wouldn't contribute to those things because of money, but of course, this is just because of personal opinions regarding me working in, well, IT in general. As an incentive for others, however, I doubt this is effective at attracting talent. OrangeStar (talk) 19:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

General comments

 * What I might suggest here is a model where certain wikis may be able to get certain 'premium' features (purely additional to what is already offered) if they pay a minimal fee, and possibly an inherent DP exemption that lasts as long as that commitment lasts (DP exemptions would be considered as normal but require justification, as now, and be subject to periodic review as now). I would not be in favor of users getting any particular bling or modification for payment. Drive space/the ability to be a bit more of a file host by design could be a component to this payment idea. I suspect a number of people would be willing to chip in for a nominal fee on the tech side but I doubt many of those people are actually already present on Miraheze and outreach would be required to pursue that idea. There are dangers but I've personally mused over a 'donation' in the form of paying someone to make certain things (in an open, easily updated and sustainable way) that will help out the platform in a tech and feature capacity. Even if that is say, updates to the usability of extensions that we offer. It's an interesting topic and maybe it's something Miraheze will have to consider seriously if it finds itself more strapped in the future. Obviously any of this would have to be approached with the upmost caution to retain trust. I think we also need to do more operational cleanup for these ideas to even be considered, as there are few things worse than controversies of a platform with paid components being in over its head. Introducing any of this would also change the model in a way that might damage the image of the platform, and is something that would only go over well if a/the platform was made for it in the first place. --Raidarr (talk) 13:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think right now we aren't doing terribly in terms of finance therefore making these proposals unnecessary at this time. If the third proposal is aimed at attempting to attract more technical volunteers (which we do very much need!) I'm not sure how efficient that would be given that most tasks aren't tasks that require investing a large amount of time into them. --Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 14:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand very much that the ideas I propose are not attractive from an ideological and principles perspective. I imagined that the community would oppose in the way that it does. The only worry that I have is that even if there are supposedly enough funds right now - are there enough for real growth of the project or just preserving the status quo and slowly upgrading things here and there? --DeeM28 (talk) 15:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that the meltdown of twitter is a good growth opportunity for a wiki website. Completely separate ecosystems. "I have had no discussions with anyone affiliated with Miraheze about this" says it all. Go play with Fandom if you wanna see where this kind of thinking leads.
 * Further to the above, Twitter is merely the newest organization to see that growth achieved by giving stuff away free is not necessarily sustainable when it collides with a corporate business model involving imposing fees (for premium stuff or for mere access). The Fandom analog with which I'm familiar is attaching volunteer unpaid contributions to paid advertisements the authors don't want.  In either case, the corporate response is:  We run the place, and you are merely the chumps!  Indeed it is not a "growth opportunity," especially if, according to Reception123, we are not desperate.   02:58 12-Nov-2022
 * In light of the recent DB outage I would support a tiered system where you can pay to get additional replication on a managed cloud provider for as much stability as possible (which would also provide other benefits, such as lower latency if located away from the existing servers at Stevenage), while ensuring that the existing free wikis remain as feature-complete as possible. I suppose that even this might detract from the original Miraheze ideals, however. --2620:15C:2C1:200:29C8:4AC4:17C1:954F 18:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Problem with the borders of the circles
I have a slight problem with some of my borders. As I show you here: https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:R5, I couldn't figure out how to place simple borders that I could color. I can only put double borders, or single borders or all black, which is not what I want. I could use some guidance. Thanks in advance. Darkrai18 (talk) 17:32, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Problem with uploading media files
I have a problem with my wiki that I cannot upload media files, the error is: "An unknown error occurred in storage backend "miraheze-swift"." How can this be fixed? Thank you. Verycutecat (talk) 10:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello.Have you reported on Phabricator？ by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 16:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have yet to create a task on Phabricator because the problem isn't explicitly with the files being missed like the banner said; and I am not sure how to add tags to the task properly, what's the project for this kind of problem? Thank you. Verycutecat (talk) 18:50, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I see.OrangeStar made a report.Probably this problem will be solved by his/her action.Let's wait until being solved.Thank you. by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 10:52, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Issue was solved, at least on AdvanceWarsWiki. OrangeStar (talk) 13:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm having the same issues when both uploading and deleting files. I reported it on Phabricator: . OrangeStar (talk) 16:29, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Add an interwiki to zhdel
zhdel.miraheze.org would like to have a interwikilink to zh.wikipedia.org (Chinese Wikipedia), desired configurations are listed below:

Tiger (talk) 22:19, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For the record I handled this already per the phab task. --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   22:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

wikitrash
hi, I recently went to my wikitrash page in Italian and I can't see anything anymore because everything has become private, I would like to ask how can I go back to see how before please ???

https://wikitrash.miraheze.org/wiki/Pagina_principale

HELP!!!!!

A1cb3 (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Is the wiki private? --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:05, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Checking Special:ManageWiki/core/wikitrashwiki, it seems so. Unfortunately you will need to contact local bureaucrats/administrators for access. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 19:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not a Bureaucrats in the wiki I requested, is that the norm?
Hello, I was just curious if not being Bureaucrats in the wiki I requested (https://ewgf.miraheze.org) is the norm. I am asking because i wanted to enable some extensions, but I am not able to. Iroi97 (talk) 20:15, 8 November 2022 (UTC)


 * It is indeed not. You can ask a steward to add the rights via this noticeboard. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 20:20, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, as I also mentioned on the Phabricator task that you opened the original account that requested the wiki isn't this one but Iroi so that's the account that has bureaucrats/administrator rights. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 20:20, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

How do I tell people about my new wiki?
How do I tell others about my wiki? The link is here. Garfnoblade (talk) 00:14, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * SEO is the best way to get others to know about your wiki. It's hard to perform but it's worth it. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 00:16, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Promote it on social as often as you can, as well as avenues relevant to your site's topic(s)/scope. For a good idea of how well your outreach is going, you can view Matomo-powered Special:Analytics on your wiki (specifically the Site Referrals/Search Keywords/Social Networks/Websites tabs). --Routhwick (talk) 10:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Could someone tell me the problem with this template?
https://fiction.miraheze.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:Galerie When I want to place a "caption1" template, no problem. But when I place a "caption2", everything goes wrong. It is incomprehensible. Thanks in advance for your help. Darkrai18 (talk) 11:38, 10 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi, are you still having this same problem with your wiki? I looked at your template and could it be because the "caption2" parameter is not defined at all in your template? --Anton (talk) 15:54, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello.
 * Actually, I've put the template back in its original version for now until I find a solution, but my screenshot versions are still available. I can find them for you if you want. Darkrai18 (talk) 15:58, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

How to resolve Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'strict' not found
On my Mizaheze wiki, the error Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'strict' not found, has started appearing on many templates, I imported a bunch a few weeks back and am assuming that is where the issue started, how do I resolve this issue? VexilNB (talk) 15:58, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, the same happened here in Meta just yesterday on one of the modules. Please take a look at Agent Isai's fix here. You can also just import the templates again. OrangeStar (talk) 16:08, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

My opinion about the removing of the Wiki's
In my opinion we should not remove the wikis. If we removed the wikis due to argument and turmoil, we should just ban other social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, heck even YouTube. In my opinion (and I know you all have made your decision with the network bureaucrats and stuff like that.) there should have been better mods. I didn't even look at the comments for the most part I was focused on the sites and reviews on why works of art(movies,games,shows,books)were considered good or bad. I feel like it was like YouTube in a figurative sense. Figuratively I just watch the videos and do not read the comments. I feel like with removing the wikis I feel like the constitutional Freedom of Speech we have is violated. I feel like we should be a able to express our love or hate for entertainment media. We should have just had the people guilty of spreading violence and toxicity held accountable. Think about Batman. In Batman Begins, Batman trains with the League of Shadows who believes that Gotham is not worth saving and must be destroyed, however Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn't believe that(1). He believes that Gotham: the city he loves, the city that literally murdered his parents, is worth saving. Now are we going to let Miraheze get ravaged and destroyed by the League of Shadows or are we going to fight for the survival of our.

Sources (1)Batman Begins Directed by Christopher Nolan, performances by Christen Bale, Cillian Murphy and Micheal Caine, Warner Brothers,2005. 67.189.68.211 18:23, 12 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Qualitipedia (what I assume you're referring to) was not closed by Stewards. It was closed following a successful community RfC. Tali64³ (talk) 18:46, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Noted 67.189.68.211 20:32, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Why is this on Miraheze Meta? Wouldn't this be more appropriate on Qualitipedia Meta? --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 20:11, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Concur. There is otherwise quite a lot here that is just very off, not least of which the bizarre inappropriate mention of "freedom of speech" which is not a reference applicable to Miraheze or really any internet entity. --Raidarr (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Quite. The U.S. Constitution (Amendment I) does not say speech is always free; merely that it is never criminal.  And least of all that you are entitled to a service being provided to you at no cost and for all your videos to be where you want them to be.  In any case, Miraheze is now incorporated abroad.   23:02 13-Nov-2022
 * many people decided to close this because of drama, bias, etc. I decided because of these things, LTA's, and politics. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 00:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * why are you spamming the noticeboard Chantolove (talk) 16:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Special pages do not work
I have a problem with my wiki. I clicked some random things and the Special pages do not work. Here is the wiki: https://axolotelcountry.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page Axolotel Ukraine (talk) 11:48, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi.How about making a report on Phabricator?Thanks by Buel ·Talk·Wikimail 13:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

DB141 wikis (e.g. The Bat Man Wiki) does not work as expected?
I try acessing the Bat Man Wiki, but the following message showed:

“Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.

Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.

Cannot access the database: Cannot access the database: Connection refused (db141) (db141))”

I also accessed other wiki, but this still happened.

What's wrong with DB141 wikis? How did this happen?


 * As the error notes, there are malfunctions in the database and any wiki based on DB141 is having issues. SRE is currently troubleshooting. Resolution time depends how long it takes to get a more experienced infrastructure member involved to take a look and fix the issues; it is known and in discussion on Discord. It is an ongoing situation; apologies for the inconvenience. Someone from SRE will likely make a statement on Meta later. --Raidarr (talk) 14:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I hope the db141 wikis are recoverable, as I've invested a lot into Mariopedia (which has been down all day). Thankfully the other wikis I edit haven't been having this issue. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:01, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Mariopedia isn't the only one with this issue (Polandball, Qualtipedia Meta) The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 05:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * And Webkinz Guide, too. I really hope this issue gets fixed soon, because Webkinz World recently had its monthly update and that means new items. Unfortunately, this error is preventing users from uploading images of the new items. Very frustrating...please fix! Buzzfan120 (talk) 06:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Now Webkinz Guide is displaying a "Wiki not found" message. I really hope it didn't end up getting deleted.... Buzzfan120 (talk) 21:20, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * They are unlinked in CentralAuth to correct the login issue. All affected wikis are known and recovery is being worked on. --Raidarr (talk) 21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * So the data isn't lost or corrupted, is that correct? If the wikis aren't privately backed up by Miraheze monthly, I think needs to. Better safe than sorry. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I will be frank: there is no promise that data wasn't lost. There was hardware failure involving two drives; they will be inspected and recovery efforts will be made by a reputable third party as needed assuming they were indeed the sole culprits. Better backup practices and fallback will be required going forward. But this should be taken as somewhat authoritative hearsay and not an official notice: the extent is not entirely known yet. --Raidarr (talk) 22:48, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah this is why I was saying that a lesson from this is for Miraheze to do better backup practices in the future. At least the images are at least stored on the servers, from what I've noticed. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a tracking task for backups. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 01:04, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The wiki is hidden from view so users who visited the wiki can login globally. It's (hopefully) not gone forever. --Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 21:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Free Editing Wiki is down too. 1.158.238.102 22:12, 18 November 2022 (UTC) freeediting.miraheze.org
 * So that ...... When will they fixed? Also, a language bug occurred again! I set my interface language in "Preferences" to foreign language in Meta and some other wikis, but when I try editing pages (including this page), it shows by English! Even if some foreign language wikis' default language is their own language, their interface language became English. Again! Another bug occurred. What's wrong with that?
 * No ETA on when db141 is going back up. As for the latter, I can't answer that. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 13:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Couldn't we just move these wikis to a different database? Would that solve the problem? Buzzfan120 (talk) 03:13, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not understand English well. However, I looked up for dictionary so that I got the full meaning of this shortened word. Is ETA means "Estimated Time of Arrival"? So that it means "There is no estimated time of arrival on when DB141 is going back up"?
 * Yes. OrangeStar (talk) 17:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

CSS customization for the Vector skin
I want to customize the Vector legacy skin for my apperance but it doesn't work in full scale since CSS classes changed in newer MediaWiki versions. The code is on User:Vlad26t/vector.css. Vlad26t (talk) 16:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * In trying to assist here, I encountered an issue of my own. I set my skin to Vector Legacy and it just gives me Vector 2022, as though the Legacy skin was somehow missing. Perhaps another side effect of db141 going down, but still worth noting here. Hb1290 (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I checked around on Wikipedia and the toolbar doesn't seem to have an unique CSS class. You can use their ids, however.
 * "Page" -> ca-nstab-main
 * "Talk" -> ca-talk
 * "Read" -> ca-view
 * "Edit" -> ca-edit
 * "View source" (protected pages) -> ca-view-source
 * "View history" -> ca-history
 * "Add topic" -> ca-addsection
 * "Watch" -> ca-watch
 * "Unwatch" -> ca-unwatch
 * Sorry, I'm not exactly good at CSS, this is all I can help with. OrangeStar (talk) 15:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That still doesn't give me an expected appearance. Is there anybody good at CSS? Vlad26t (talk) 07:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You can use those ids to get the desired appearance. I supposed your problem was with the toolbar's style not matching your custom CSS. OrangeStar (talk) 10:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

日本語で失礼します～
Wiki作成はどうやるのでしょうか？--Hysije (talk) 11:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Hysije：Special:RequestWikiに移動して、必要事項を記入してください. コンテンツ・ポリシーに違反していたり、トピックについての説明が足りない申請は受理されません. 詳しい記事がDochouseというWikiにあるので、参考にしてみてください. --<font color="#000000">1108-Kiju / ▶ <font color="#000000">Talk 11:38, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 主に3行程度、なぜウィキを作成したいのか、理由を書くと担当者によって受理されます. ここのホスティングサービスはサーバーがイギリスにあるので日本法は適用されないことに注意しましょう. by Buel ·Talk·e-mail 13:31, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 一応日本法は適用されますよ. <font color="#000000">1108-Kiju / ▶ <font color="#000000">Talk  13:45, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * topic, scope, purpose を明確に書けと書いてあります. Reasonと言っても「なぜウィキを作成したいのか」といった、いわゆる動機では無いでしょう. この辺は理由という言葉の日本語の曖昧さで誤解されているのでしょう. Dochouseの記事でもその点は明確になってませんね. もっとも例は良い内容ではありますが. AkiGoto (talk) 07:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

When will the db141 be fixed
P.S. (I'm Unreal_Neo Encyclopedia Wiki's Creator, My Wiki won't work)

When will it be possible to fix the db141(cloud14) and make it viewable in the Wiki hosted by the database...

I'm really worried that this accident will result in the loss of all the data on it, because I don't have any backup records yet... Sucrose Fans Rosalina129 04:57, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * unknown. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 05:54, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No clear ETA; updates are offered as they happen on Tech:SRE noticeboard. --Raidarr (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

What's happening to the wikis?
I keep trying to access wikis on this site like Random Wiki or The Reception Wikis Wiki, and all I get is an error message that says "Wiki Temporarily Unavailable". This has been going on for 3 days straight, and honestly, this is starting to get worrysome. I can understand this site's wikis not working for a couple hours, but 3 days? That's unbelievable. Can this be fixed? SuperStreetKombat (talk) 18:46, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * See Tech:SRE noticeboard. --Routhwick (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I wish we had an ETA for when this issue will be fixed. I don't know how much longer I can wait and I really hope this gets fixed soon. Buzzfan120 (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * What if we moved the affected wikis to a different database? Do you suppose that might work? Buzzfan120 (talk) 03:27, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The affected wikis are inaccessible, thus moving them is impossible. There will be updates once the failed drives involved can be physically looked at and recovered if necessary. --Raidarr (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's just hope that this error doesn't last as long as that one time where comments were buffering or when comments in discussion tabs duplicated last year. SuperStreetKombat (talk) 08:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Moved to CN as it does not require Steward intervention. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 01:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Same because of Companyball and Polandball wikis are getting with same error Hyebun (talk) 09:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * An update to this issue has been posted here:
 * https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_noticeboard#Db141_update
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 17:58, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

request InterWiki
Please add the following InterWiki to "dochouse.mirahze.org". -- Funa-enpitu（talk/Posting Record） 11:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ --  Joseph  TB  CT  CA   12:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

is db141 would be fixed even theres no eta
i don't want a 2 week downtime because i just gonna working to make Beemoovball page on companyball wiki

i hope some wikis are fixed soon as can Hyebun (talk) 09:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)


 * SRE is doing everything they can, the server hosting that database is being reinstalled and the disks have been sent to a professional data recovery service, hopefully the database will be back soon. Please see Tech:SRE noticeboard for the latest updates on the db141 situation. OrangeStar (talk) 10:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * An update to this issue has been posted here:
 * https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_noticeboard#Db141_update
 * --NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 17:59, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Db141 update
On 16 November, 2022, we noticed a database server, db141, had gone offline. While investigating, we quickly realised that the problem was not the database server itself but rather the server (cloud14) which hosted it. Cloud14 had entered read-only mode and the db141 database had locked up as it was unable to write data. Log analysis indicated signs of potential disk-related issues. Shortly thereafter, the cloud server restarted but did not come back online.

We immediately went to work to figure out what could be done about the issue and to see how we could bring affected wikis back online. Unlike all the other issues we have ever encountered relating to software, a hardware issue is harder to correct as they require physical intervention. After determining nothing could be done to recover the drives locally, we began arranging to send the drives to a professional data recovery service. We have since shipped out the drives to the professional data recovery service and are awaiting for the results.

Backups
For a long time, Miraheze used Backupsy for it's offsite backups. We then moved to using Bacula on an offsite server to backup our data. While this arrangement worked, as we grew, this could no longer accommodate us adequately; using Bacula on an offsite server grew to be very complex and costly. While our user base has grown exponentially and we are ever grateful to our users for this feat, our donations have not. The cost to keep hosting that server was high and with the resources available to us back then, it was unfeasible to keep that solution for a long time. As such, we planned to move to a 'cold storage' solution which would be much cheaper and easier to utilise than hosting an actual server and maintaining the software and configuration.

In the meanwhile however, whenever a database backup was run via Bacula, the entire farm went down as the I/O strain on the database servers was high and that on top of having to serve millions of users a day put a toll on our servers. As such, full database backups were temporarily paused. We planned to switch to our cost efficient 'cold storage' solution once we migrated from OVH, our old provider, to our new hosting provider, ServerChoice. Once we migrated, we began work on this solution as the I/O load would not be as big on our new servers. Unfortunately, we had some difficulties with getting the solution to work properly at that time and this was stalled temporarily while we fully moved off of OVH due to our off-site backups policy which requires the backup server to not be hosted by the same provider, in the same country, and on the same power grid, to maximize redundancy in cases of emergencies. As we planned to use OVH Public Cloud Archive, we could not use OVH until we moved off of OVH completely. This was completed a few months ago in September. Since then however, no volunteer has had the time to look into backups properly. As you know, Miraheze is run 100% by volunteers, no one is paid or has ever been paid even a single cent. Our technical team was unable to revisit backup strategies due to a combination of factors including limited time due to real life commitments such as work, etc.

While full database backups were paused however, XML database backups were not. Every time wikis were deleted for inactivity pursuant to the Dormancy Policy, a full XML database dump of all wikis was also generated. This was not as intensive as a full database backup and was done on a different server hence why they didn't affect the farm as much. This means wiki database dumps were generated every few months. While not something formally mandated, we usually uploaded database dumps of all public wikis on to archive.org so that anyone could download them. We did this several times per year starting from 2017. Since October 2021 however, we had not uploaded them to archive.org due to our focus shifting on other things such as that year's fundraiser, our server migration, technical goals such as improving the performance of Miraheze, and more. We attempted to resume this process and we made a full database dump of all wikis in late October 2022 and attempted to upload them to archive.org. We attempted to upload these database backups 3 times but they all failed near the end due to network issues. We then shifted our focus on developing a script to potentially automate the entire task for us in a much more efficient manner but this was ultimately interrupted and never came to fruition due to the cloud14 issue. While checking for backups, we realised we had made a huge error. The database dumps we had generated 2 weeks earlier for wikis was located on mwtask141, a server on cloud14. As a result, we had no usable backups on hand. This means that at this present moment, we do not have any up-to-date backups of the affected wikis available for us to use to restore the wikis, we only have backups from October 2021.

We must wait for data recovery services to see what data they can recover from the drives.

Moving forward
We understand how frustrating hearing that can be and we deeply apologise. This was a massive oversight from our part and such an important thing should not have been put on the backburners. Moving forward, we are working to ensure that such a mistake never happens again. We have revisited our backup strategy and now have a functioning script which automatically creates backups for all public wikis and uploads it to archive.org every first of the month. We are also in the process of re-evaluating solutions and working towards hopefully fully backing up the rest of our infrastructure to cold storage to ensure no data loss in the future. We are taking many steps to prevent this from happening again and developing processes to get Miraheze online faster in case of an event of similar or greater proportions. We are now waiting on data recovery to see what can be done with the drives and hopefully, if all goes well, we can recover all the databases.

We are truly very sorry and we deeply apologise to our affected communities. Despite all being unpaid volunteers, our entire team has worked around the clock, sleeping less than 4 hours in some cases, to ensure that we can do everything possible to help resolve this issue. We are very deeply thankful to our community for their understanding and support these past few days, we cannot stress how much this has helped us and has encouraged us to continue working to resolve this issue diligently. We are also very grateful to the people who have donated over the last few days to help pitch in for the data recovery cost. Miraheze does not have lots of resources available to us to freely spend money so all these donations are very much appreciated. This has been a costly mistake and we are working to ensure this never happens again. Once again, we deeply apologise to the affected communities and we are working as hard as we can to get your wikis back online. If you have any questions, please email us at sremiraheze.org or ask on Discord. Thank you. Agent Isai Talk to me! 17:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)


 * well thanks to that
 * now i get waste of my time because of annoying wiki downtime because disk issues even i just working hard by doing to do stuff on companyball wiki until that wiki was down
 * i just thinking how would be fixed but 3 weeks to get fixed this?? even i am on school Hyebun (talk) 19:42, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * While your frustration is understandable, you must remember that this is a volunteer project. Not taking your anger out on the volunteers here is the least you can do to avoid worsening the situation. — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 23:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks because i was upset about the database issue Hyebun (talk) 09:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok now I’m getting a shift to one of our db141 wikis (fohsarchive) so I have a hangout fandom wiki PrincessTricktyy197 (talk) 16:24, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah do what she said SetsunaKnowsTheMatrix (talk) 16:03, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * After this disk failure issue, I began to think I should backup the wiki I manage by myself. But DataDump does not work currently. Please fix it also soon. --AkiGoto (talk) 23:31, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It sounds to me like maybe there *should* be paid staff, if current volunteers are short on time. --HiccupJul (talk) 23:34, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Firstly, Miraheze doesn't have the ability to pay staff. The money that's raised by Miraheze goes to keeping our services operational, which is what we're currently doing by fixing our disk issue. Second, if it's your wish to backup your wiki yourself, you're more than welcome to do so. This is a temporary inconvenience, not a permanent deletion of the wikis. Thanks - BrandonWM (talk • contribs • global • rights) 23:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't have paid staff because we don't want to, we don't have paid staff because we can't afford it. If you check our Finances page, you'll see with how little we run Miraheze. If more of our users donated, perhaps we could have paid staff but it doesn't seem like that'll be a reality any time soon. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 06:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, it was as silly assumption for me to make that there was necessarily enough money. I don't mean to undermine the work of the volunteers, mistakes happen. --HiccupJul (talk) 19:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I know for a fact I used Special:DataDump on a few wikis before, Mariopedia being one of them, so it might not be as early as October 2021 for some wikis. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:36, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Big thank you for this update, Agent, as I was curious as to what has been going on & was somewhat nervous about what was going on. Mariopedia is the only big wiki that I edit (and even then someone else founded that) that was affected by this. As said in another comment below, is there Special:DataDump backup of that wiki as of July 2022? I'm near certain I did a data dump for that wiki. I saw someone back up some Miraheze wikis themselves some time ago (my Nintendo Wiki was among them, tho Mariopedia sadly was not).
 * I do also remember being concerned that October 2021 was the latest for the database dumps because I worried about things such as "what if data loss were to happen". I actually would've backed up my wikis semi-regularly, but (Miraheze) Gaming Services has loads of wikis & there's already a lot to keep an eye on.
 * Also that's a very unfortunate occurrence that October 2022 backups were tried but backed up on to the very SSD's that stopped functioning. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:54, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 3 more weeks of unavailability from the wikis? Damn. SuperStreetKombat (talk) 01:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright Miraheze, the clock struck up. Outage will be over in a little minute. SetsunaKnowsTheMatrix (talk) 02:21, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Please try and keep the unnecessary comments to a minimum, . We want to keep this thread available to users who may be seeking information on the current outage, we don't want to create all these messages that will serve no actual use. Thanks - BrandonWM (talk • contribs • global • rights) 04:40, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with Brandon. PrincessTricktyy197 (talk) 14:47, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that if a comment is too off-topic, it can simply be reverted/ignored. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 21:52, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah you heard me Blad. SetsunaKnowsTheMatrix (talk) 15:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have a question, in the Monday update it was said that the earliest ETA could be early next week, is this still case, or is the ETA been moved since then? LikeHumansDo5 (talk) 01:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have a backup of my wiki on my PC. Can I upload it and reopen my wiki now? (https://opensynth.miraheze.org/ ) --Oxygendioxide (talk) 06:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Oxygendioxide — it is possible to create the wiki at the same URL again, by having SRE drop the URL from the CW database; I believe there was a little bit of chatter in Discord about this, and CosmicAlpha said that he was discussing this with the other members of the team. This may cause complexities in the future, however, so you must be certain that this is the route that you want to take. I believe the correct procedure for requesting this is to open a ticket on Phabricator; although you must be sure that you want to go down this route. (Anyone with more knowledge on this, CA? Agent? feel free to correct my comment) --Original Authority (talk) 07:44, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this in depth update, One of my wikis is part of that long list and i really appreciate the work everyone is doing to try and recover data.
 * I hope its not too unnecessary to sing your praises. Please make sure you and the team are taking care of yourselves ! NA19 (talk) 20:44, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Is there a good chance that https://csx.miraheze.org/wiki/ needs to be re-created? that is down... but i see that https://learn.miraheze.org/wiki/Linux_kernal is still up.... thanks. MichaelTen (talk) 20:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Only a few wikis were affected hence why that wiki is still up. If you want a wiki to be recreated, please file a Phabricator task. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 22:13, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't want to come across as rude or anything, but Miraheze seems to be constantly not working almost every month, something Fandom does not suffer (Fandom have had a few errors but nothing bad like Miraheze). I have been contemplating move back to Fandom because of this which is a shame because Miraheze was a great idea CWM200202 (talk) 09:35, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That's because Fandom is fully corporate & has thousands and thousands of dollars to keep things running smoothly, although at the cost of their integrity and user choice. Miraheze relies on volunteers and donations & is ad-free. Bawitdaba (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply, what happened to Fandom's integrity? (genuine question) CWM200202 (talk) 17:54, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Integrity as in they don't give users free choice to customize communities as see fit (e.g. no monobook, vector, or other Wikipedia-like design) Bawitdaba (talk) 18:54, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah I see what you mean, sorry for not getting it the first time CWM200202 (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for the updates, and make sure to get some sleep!! We at the Downtown Zuzu wiki are eagerly awaiting its return, but as a volunteer-run mod, we get how frustrating and stressful this must be for everyone. --SELI-chan (talk) 20:51, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Any updates on ETA? Do you think you might have it fixed soon? Please let us all know. Buzzfan120 (talk) 02:55, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * same ★Giovanna/Xiaochan★ (talk) 09:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I just hope I won't lost any data out there. Now I must copy all source texts in order to secure all those data. Eh, worst of all I have nothing to do, not to mention I can't continue my stories. Luckily brain is the last thing I will lose, so I prepared huge number of arts in Word with source code.
 * I hope this will end before 6th December. Usually something good happened those days for me & if db141 ending count as that so I hope all Mirahezes will be recovered. Wish you good luck, folks! That's all what I can for that moment. CreationKeeper (talk) 10:18, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you guys for your tireless work and your immense dedication for trying to fix the issue. As the admin of a small wiki that has gone down I love the service you are providing and I had not realised how difficult it was to keep things running. I think something that might help donations go up is a very low cost subscription service, such as perhaps <$5 a month, but netting you some premium features. I don't know what, but perhaps access to extra tools that make certain tasks easier. I'd certainly be happy to pay a couple bucks a month to support the site's maintenance, and I suspect many more would if there was some minor perk given in exchange for it. OfficialTerracil (talk) 13:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

A fast and simple method to backup Miraheze wikis
A fast and simple method to backup Miraheze wikis is Elsie Hupp's Python 3 fork of the WikiTeam dumpgenerator.py Python 2 script.

Except there is still some debugging needed - this doesn't yet work for every Miraheze wiki.

Example usage, this will produce an XML dump, a folder of images (and other files) and a JSON file: or on Windows:

The presence of a siteinfo.json file probably indicates a succesful XML dump.

Full instructions are at elsiehupp/wikiteam3. Rob Kam (talk) 10:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * i am not good at coding sorry Hyebun (talk) 09:40, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn’t code lol PrincessTricktyy197 (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

お願い
日本語ながらすみませんがeditextendedprotectedを導入したいのですが、できません. やり方もしくは導入の方をお願いしたいです. こちらで間違えてビューロクラットを削除してしまい困っています. パンダ会長 (talk) 14:29, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * translated: I'm sorry for being Japanese, but I'd like to introduce editextendedprotected, but I can't. The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 16:06, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think you can create new protection levels in ManageWiki. OrangeStar (talk) 16:09, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * translated: ManageWikiでは新しい保護レベルを作れるとは思えません. AkiGoto (talk) 20:32, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * User:パンダ会長 also said that he(she?) accidentally deleted his(her?) bureaucrat permission on the tabemono wiki. Please help him(her?). AkiGoto (talk) 20:17, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * NotAracham alerted the Stewards, the user just has to wait until they give them the bureaucrat group. OrangeStar (talk) 20:48, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! / translated: NotAracham(訳注: 日本語も分かる利用者) がスチュワードになったので、その利用者(訳注: パンダ会長)はビューロクラットグループが与えられるのを待ってさえすれば良い. (…だと思います、訳があまり自信ありませんが. 多分裏で連絡してくれたんだと思います. ) AkiGoto (talk) 21:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * alterだと思ったらalertだったのね. 「NotArchamがスチュワードに通知したので」が正しかったようです. 失礼しました. AkiGoto (talk) 01:47, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Did u see that? PrincessTricktyy197 (talk) 21:39, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * パンダ会長, note: ビューロクラット権限についてはStewards' noticeboardにて、NotArachamさんにより再付与が依頼されています. / とは拡張承認された利用者のことで合っていますか？それなら、phabricatorで依頼する必要があります. T9400に前例があるようなので、参考にしてみてください.  / English: To create a new level of protection, you must request it in the phabricator. Please refer to T9400 for a precedent. --<font color="#000000">1108-Kiju /<font color="#000000">Talk  01:19, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ビューロクラットについてはありがとうございます. 拡張保護です--パンダ会長 (talk) 02:14, 26 November 2022 (UTC).

Why private wikis are allowed?
Why private wikis are allowed? I read the FAQ, but I could not find any reason. It seems private wikis contribute to the community (or the World) nothing. 'Open' is a Miraheze policy, isn't it? AkiGoto (talk) 02:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * People want private wikis to host their own thoughts. I don't see why we wouldn't offer them. Agent Isai  Talk to me! 06:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Miraheze does not have a social requirement to contribute to 'the' community, much less to the World. It merely asks that wikis fall within the Content Policy. Miraheze does not want to go out of its way to judge or discriminate scopes, public or private unless absolutely needed. "Open" has never been a policy. --Raidarr (talk) 12:17, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Miraheze is not as community-based as something like Fandom. Fandom wants any and all users to contribute to any wikis they want, and create wikis that others can freely edit, and so on. Miraheze just wants you to have a wiki. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 14:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Where are all of the protests
<div class="boilerplate metadata discussion-archived" style="background-color: #F2F4FC; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa">
 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Out of scope and pointless thread that lead to the original poster (Blubabluba9990) indefinitely blocked from Meta as a whole, who was already topic-banned. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 20:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

It has been two months since Qualitipedia's unfortunate closure and yet there has been very little resistance to the closure, apart from a few scattered threads. I expected this wiki to be flooded with requests to reopen the wikis. What is also upsetting about this is even though over 40 people voted oppose on the Request for Comment to close the wikis (including myself), only me and Money12123 have tried to continue their legacy. Where is everybody else? Why have none of the other 40 opposers protested the closure or joined the government in exile created by me and Money. Qualitipedia was very important and was influential in the history of Miraheze and yet people seem to have forgotten about it. Furthermore, new reception wikis are banned from being created, yet there have been no protests against that decision, despite Miraheze formerly being a haven for the reception wikis. Unfortunately due to Error 141 (which is what I am calling the temporary shutdown of the db141 wikis) I am unable to name everyone who opposed the proposal, since Qualitipedia Meta is one of the victims. If I could find the proposal I would have pinged all of the users who opposed the proposal here. I do know that Katsumi was one of the opposers, and many of the opposers were lesser-known Qualitipedia users. Also, CJWorldGame32345 is supposedly making a reboot of the wikis, though there have been no updates on it. I want all users who opposed the proposal to close the wikis to please step forward and join the government in exile, or at least explain why they haven't joined yet. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Also, Raidarr has not responded to my comment on the discussion on Money12123's talk page regarding this. Also I just remembered another user who opposed the closureː HeavenSmile, who still remains vocal about the closure on Qualitipedia Meta. There is another user whose name I can't remember due to how long it is but he has repeatedly defended me. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:44, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sir, you can't just go to the Community Noticeboard and ask why people aren't protesting about the shutdown of Qualitipedia. The wikis have been closed because the admins wanted it closed for good, whether you like it or not. No offense, but it's also really none of your business if the community didn't protest it either. CRAB-2 (talk) 17:48, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I am one of the few members of the Qualitipedia Government in Exile. Also, there are users who opposed it. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:51, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If the admins wanted to shut it down, they can shut it down if they want. I'm assuming none of the users who opposed it were admins. Please just let the topic of QP to die, many people do not like it when you constantly complain about it here on Meta. CRAB-2 (talk) 17:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't just let it die because of how important it is to the world of reception. We cannot let Qualitipedia be forgotten. Me and Money formed the Qualitipedia Government in Exile to continue Qualitipedia's legacy and memory. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:58, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Look I know you're angry about your favorite internet community dying, but you can't just keep complaining and getting on everyone's nerves about it. They shut it down for many issues, and they're not gonna backtrack on it just because some guy on Community Noticeboard wrote multiple paragraphs on why it should be reopened. Just accept the fact it's closed permanently. CRAB-2 (talk) 18:02, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Well we have yet to hear from the other users who opposed the proposal. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 18:04, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Whatever they're gonna say will not change the result. The admins have closed the wikis, and they're gonna keep it closed. CRAB-2 (talk) 18:06, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It wasn't closed by the Stewards from what I saw. There was an RfC, and the conclusion was to close the wikis, nothing more. OrangeStar (talk) 18:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Further proves my point. CRAB-2 (talk) 18:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Update - The name of the other user I was talking about is Szczypak2005. Me, Money12123, Tali64³, HeavenSmile, and Szczypak2005 are the only users who voted oppose on the RfC to close the wikis and who have also vocally opposed the closure afterwards, at least to my knowledge. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just a reminder that this topic ban remains in force on Meta. While you may have formed a legacy government, that does give you immunity to Meta's community decision regarding the fact you are banned from engaging in discussions regarding Qualitipedia. If you engage in this thread once more to discuss it, you will be blocked for violating a topic ban. John (talk) 18:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * This is likely going to be a heated discussion, so please ensure everyone is following the Code of Conduct, and other relevant policies. Zppix (Meta &#124; talk to me) 17:50, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Understood. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 17:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Many presumably gave up. To be honest, I'm glad, it just makes our lives on Meta easier. Also, friendly reminder of your topic ban here on Meta. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 17:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If Error141 wasn't an issue, I would talk about this on another active wiki. This is a very active wiki and it needs to be said in a place where many users can hear it. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If you can't find a wiki to discuss this on, then there's a solution. Just drop the discussion. You have been (justifiably) topic-banned here, and there's no point in continuing this discussion if nothing will change, nor has been changing for the past 3 months. With that being said, I am unsubscribing from this thread. Please do not ping me about it or use my talk page to discuss this matter. --<span style="font-weight: bold; background:linear-gradient(#ff00ff,#c800c8,purple,#c800c8,#ff00ff);; -webkit-background-clip:text !important; -webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">Blad  (talk • contribs • global) 18:03, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @HeavenSmile@Szczypak2005@Katsumi a.k.a. Upperdecker2562 Since you are the users that I remember opposed the proposal I am pinging you all here. If you know anyone else who opposed the proposal please ping them. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 18:03, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I also request that the three of you subscribe to this thread. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 18:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Could it be possible to adopt the reception wikis and run them independently
Considering there are a few people on here, who would want to use the wikis. I feel like they should allow us to adopt the wikis and reopen them to a smaller group of people, for example the Terrible TV Shows wiki. Nidoking (talk) 15:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC)


 * No Agent Isai  Talk to me! 15:35, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * no + servers cost maitnence + will bring back toxicity + users have been shown to handle it irresponsibly + someone already did that The user who loves human heads on alien/animal bodies in cartoons for no reason (talk to me uwu!) 15:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed, BTW the reception wikis of the past (from FANDOM-era to Qualitipedia-era) aren't meant to be taken seriously (which Character Wikis does after being independent from Qualitipedia). Hate to say reception wikis but I did and it is a shame that mainline reception wikis are changed from being for fun to being a serious wiki (at the time of ToE being rebranded to Qualitipedia), which is bad because reception wikis are written subjectively rather than objectively. TF3RDL (talk &#124; contribs &#124; FANDOM &#124; Wikipedia) 18:08, 28 November 2022 (UTC)