Requests for Comment/Icons and wordmarks

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Wordmark and Icons on Miraheze
Soon with the release of MediaWiki 1.36, more people will be using the "New Vector" design with the horizontal logo at the top. Currently, Meta and Commons do not have a version with a wordmark. In this RfC, I request your comment on which font we should be using on Meta (and maybe Miraheze Commons). &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 21:04, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

= Font = The wordmark needs to have a font that is free and has no restrictions to use on the web. Unfortunately, a lot of good fonts are very restricted, and not all free fonts are permitted to use anywhere (including Arial, Segoe, Times New Roman, etc.).

Google Fonts is currently a good repository of free and (mostly) non-restrictive fonts. Roboto is the font I originally used but it seems that some people are not pleased by this. I suggest the following fonts, but you can include your own in the "Other (suggest a font)" section.

Roboto
Roboto is the font used by Google on Android, ChromeOS and some other services. It's simple, well designed and has multiple weights.



Support

 * 1)  also as a modern and friendly look, but prefer one of the lighter weight variants for this one. Dmehus (talk) 21:12, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Dmehus/Doug. But as a definitive response to it, I'd say this font is commonly used by people, regardless of environment. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:17, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  Though I am fine with any of the fonts (despite what people may tell you, in my opinion there is no such thing as a “bad font”) this one is used on the Reception Wikis, or was. I wish there was some way we could preview the font on the main page rather than just seeing the font itself, it would give me and probably others a more clear idea. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 16:02, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) *I revoked this vote as Roboto is not the font used on the Reception Wikis, Ubuntu is. Though I am fine with any of these. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:42, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) **Blubabluba9990 That's fine, but I would just note that this RfC would not impact the font choice of the wordmark on the Reception wikis. This applies only to Meta Wiki. Reception wikis can decide what font they want to use for their wikis' wordmark with the New Vector skin variation on Vector. Dmehus (talk) 21:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) ***I know. And since the wordmark is so small it doesn't really matter. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:55, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) ****True, too. Dmehus (talk) 21:56, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  I don't mind it but not my favourite.  08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 9)  I don't really have a strong preference but I don't mind Roboto, I think it's fine. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 10:22, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) I might not mind it a lot. Not my favorite, but looks ok.   Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Per Lake, this is currently in use and it really hurts my eyes.  21:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Lake's not opposed this, so I'm not sure why you've said "per Lake"? Additonally, Lake did say this font has multiple weights and styles, which could be used. We're not set on any one particular weight, thickness, or style. Dmehus (talk) 21:56, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's obvious enough that I was citing Lake's message here. 22:16, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I hadn't seen any responses via Discord and also because not everyone here uses Discord, so was just going by what has been said on-wiki. Dmehus (talk) 22:21, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * "I hadn't seen any responses via Discord" - what do you mean? 15:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I just mean that where you said it was obvious enough you were citing Lake's message on Discord, it wasn't obvious because I hadn't seen that message when I replied. Dmehus (talk) 15:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't like Google, I preferred macOS Garmond of SF font instead. SecretSpyer (talk) 22:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  I don't know, I'm just not really feeling this one. It's got that modern feel, but it just doesn't seem like it would go well as a logo wordmark. Turtle84375 (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Though, if I had to pick this, a thinner version of this font would be my choice. Turtle84375 (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  This isn't a good font. It is great for simple text, but for something more important, go with something else. --Integer  talk 00:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  Man, Miraheze with roboto would truly look awful Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I would've been fine with any other font choices, rather than the Roboto font. I don't know why that font exists, but it does, I guess. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 01:25, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Lucasrighthere It's important to point out this would just be one wordmark on Meta, for those using the New Vector variant skin. New Vector will not be the default skin anywhere on Miraheze unless local wikis opt to make it the default skin option. Furthermore, each wiki will define their own wordmark font choices; this is just for Meta Wiki. Hope that clarifies. Dmehus (talk) 01:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Honestly for me, I'm not a fan of this idea but I might give it a second chance. DuchessTheSponge (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Montserrat
Montserrat is a font widely used as a header typeface. It's beautiful, slightly longer and also has multiple weights.

Support

 * 1)  Looks fine and dandy to me. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 21:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  if Playfair isn't selected.  21:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  The best font of them. — Mario  Mario  456  14:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  It would be kinda useless to change it for this but eh I can get used to it Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  Honestly, after looking at this version of the logo it looks pretty epic. DuchessTheSponge (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  YellowFrogger (talk) 19:51, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  I don't really like the extra letter spacing, it makes it seem too wide, IMO. Turtle84375 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Turtle84375, as the design of the font is otherwise nice, but I do not like the extra spacing the letters. Dmehus (talk) 22:01, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  Same. The letters are too wide. Anpang (talk) 01:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  As per 's comment, plus the letters are pretty tiny, I mean, I would need my glasses if this is used Ugochimobi (talk) 13:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Letter size is not relevant in a font. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 16:36, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  per above, to much letter spacing.  08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 2)  Some of the letters are too wide, and have a bit too much spacing, but it looks simple.   Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

PT Sans
PT Sans is a popular font, mostly used for body-text. Sans serif but it has some characteristic curves.

Support

 * 1)  I suppose these could be useful, like how Void has custom designed fonts for his signature. (I don't suppose it could be of any sort of value like this one.) -- DarkMatterMan4500  Talk to me Contribs 21:25, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, if you want to know where I got the time to create this signature, rather than the generic one I always used, here's the link to it. While yes, it does look a bit similar to Void's, but I edited that out so it doesn't look like a copy-pasted signature directly from him. While his signature is unique, nobody should ever copy his and call it theirs. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:22, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  It is pretty but I like Playfair more.  21:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  as a third preference, provided the Regular 400 weight is used, preferably with a slight bolding (if possible), and per above. Dmehus (talk) 22:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  Kinda a Playfair font group but better than Playfair. Ugochimobi (talk) 13:50, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  I do like this one.  08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 5)  Same for the last one. Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 6)  Looks interesting. DuchessTheSponge (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  This one and Ubuntu are the best. This one actually also looks like the font used on the Reception Wikis. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  Looks good --Ameisenigel (talk) 11:04, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Neutral

 * Eh, there are better fonts. If we had to, this would work, but I don't think I have any strong opinions about this one. Turtle84375 (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Some letters are a bit too bolded, but overall looks decent to me.   Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Playfair
Playfair is a serif font, similar to Times New Roman. The italic version is considerably different from the normal one.

Support

 * 1)   21:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  as it's a serif font, and I'm not a fan of serif fonts for logos. Dmehus (talk) 21:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  with a comment to add: While I like all the font choices, it should be worth noting that there are areas of improvement that should be added to make them stand out from your ordinary-generic word fonts you see on Microsoft Word or Office. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 21:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  per above comment by DarkMatterMan4500. Turtle84375 (talk) 22:00, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  It's not gonna work, i think it's just too broad kinda Ugochimobi (talk) 13:47, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  its not bad I just don't like it as much as some others above.  08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 6)  Man that's so fucking bad for a Miraheze font Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  Strong oppose because the font looks too ugly for a wiki.   Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  Doesn't really match Miraheze InspecterAbdel (NLW) 18:35, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Ubuntu
Ubuntu, as the name says, it's the font used on headers on Ubuntu.

Support

 * 1)  This one looks nice, has a modern and friendly look, and doesn't have too thick of a typeface to the letters. Dmehus (talk) 21:09, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  I think it has a nice flow to it, in terms of stylistic curve. Turtle84375 (talk) 21:54, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 3)  This could work in an informal environment of this platform. As an alternative, it's fine to use either Arial Black, or that other font Void tends to use in his signatures. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:13, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 4)  I'd prefer Ubuntu to Roboto cuz it's looking more mature and cool plus the fact that It isn't too simple and it isn't too complex, It's just there.Ugochimobi (talk) 13:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 5)  its OK I guess.  08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC) ］ |
 * 6)  this one seems fine as well, though as I said in my first vote I don't mind too much between this or the first. Reception123 (talk) ( C ) 10:22, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 7)  Looks like the most interesting font.   Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 8)  InspecterAbdel (NLW) 18:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 9)  They all look good, but Ubuntu is the font on the Reception Wikis, not Roboto. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:39, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 10)  This one looks most modern and stylish, so why not? FightFireWithFire (talk) 12:05, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  It's ugly.  22:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , could you maybe explain why, in your own words, think it's ugly? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 23:46, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What kind of question is that? Someone may find something ugly or pretty depending on their preference and taste. 09:19, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, it's best to keep this in mind that there are other users out there that will disagree with you over font choices. It's fine if you don't like this type of font choice. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 01:03, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That is what I said? 09:35, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  This font is closely related to the Ubuntu brand and it won't match with the rest of wikis. WerySkok (talk) 17:13, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2)  DuchessTheSponge (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1)  I truly don't know what to say about it Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Other (suggest a font)
If you did not like any of the fonts mentioned and/or think other font will be better, suggest here.

Suggestions

 * Oh, here are a few suggestions all right. Examples are: Times New Roman, Impact, and even Constantia. An odd pair of choices, I'll bet. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 21:37, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, Times New Roman is a restricted font, as I think the top of the page notes. Turtle84375 (talk) 21:50, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * As Turtle84375 said, Times New Roman is copyrighted. Technically speaking, when you buy a copy of Windows or Office you acquire a license to use a set of fonts for specific circumstances. For instance, Segoe is allowed to be used on any type of document, commercial or not, but not on websites (directly uploaded instead of using the browser's default font) or branding. Microsoft (or the author) won't probably bother searching for people using their font without a proper license, but still technically not legal. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 22:12, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Someone made a logo with a wordmark: https://crappygames.miraheze.org/wiki/Blog:Does_anyone_like_the_%22modern%22_Miraheze_wordmark_that_I_have_made%3F. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:52, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What font is being used there? 22:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * R4356th The creator of that logo claims it is something called Globo Brand, for which I found this link here. Dmehus (talk) 22:09, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it looks pretty good to me. 22:24, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, same, I wouldn't mind this font as well...just not sure what license it's licensed under. Perhaps DefyTheRush knows and can comment on that and point us to the license terms. Dmehus (talk) 22:26, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it is “licensed”, I think it is their own work. Maybe talk to the creator about it. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 23:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is licensed. DefyTheRush (talk) 20:50, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant, it's not licensed at all, I don't think. DefyTheRush (talk) 20:50, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * This whole convention does remind me of the time where a bunch of GoAnimators got angry at Alvin Hung over updates and changes. One of those examples happen to be the font choices, which of course is related to this topic. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:30, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That happened with UCP on FANDOM too. Luckily the Miraheze community is FAR better than the GoAnimate/Vyond and FANDOM community. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 15:55, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And hey, nobody has sent any death threats to members of Miraheze staff, or threatened to secede and start their own wiki-hosting service. So let's just hope this doesn't turn out to be like on GoAnimate/Vyond or FANDOM. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 15:59, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) SF font or NewYork. The SF font is a font developed by Apple and is widely used in many commercial and open-source software. The font is open-source, flows straight, and is easy to read. SecretSpyer (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, SF is in the same status of Segoe: allowed to be used only in specific circumstances (unless you buy a license), such as mockups, but not branding. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 22:19, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Any perfect examples of them using the license? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 00:10, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * please see this thread and see if it'll be helpful. yeah this thread Ugochimobi (talk) 14:14, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll view them when I get the chance to. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 16:01, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * As I suspected, it's not even a web font. Unfortunately, while it's beautiful, we cannot use. :( &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 16:42, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Ugochimobi (talk) 08:18, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Avenir or Helvetica if it's not copyrighted Anpang (talk) 01:08, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure about Avenir, but Helvetica is, unfortunately, a non-free, copyrighted font. Roboto reminds me of Helvetica in many respects. Dmehus (talk) 01:10, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) How about Arial? It is really beautiful but I am not sure about its license, which according to Wikipedia, is proprietary.  09:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Same as Helvetica, but i'd imagine you could use it if you were on Windows, and btw, Arial Nova is completely free if you have Windows.
 * The only really notable differences are the G and the R, but i'll save your budget SANICANIC -_- (Fanonpedia) 09:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Futura is a timeless font and my personal favorite, it's free clones are Spartan MB, Fusion, League Spartan, and Jost*. Futura is also a really good font for branding, and i actually use all but Fusion and League on my new wiki, including my logo. But the digitization (Futura AT) was free. SANICANIC -_- (Fanonpedia) 09:34, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * (on a unrelated note, will there be an option to opt out of the new vector when it updates? I don't like it.) SANICANIC -_- (Fanonpedia) 09:49, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, you will be able to opt out (and are currently able to opt in) from the "Appearances" section of Special:Preferences. 15:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, New Vector will not be set as the default. So one will have to opt in to use New Vector. Individual wikis will be able to set New Vector as the default, so then on those wikis, it'll be an opt out preference, yeah. Dmehus (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) My personal favorite font is Times New Roman, that fancy font that your teachers always made you type your essays in. Also what is the difference in appearance between New Vector and the current Vector skin, do you by any chance have a preview. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Never mind I just realized Times New Roman is unavailable. But I still would like to see a preview of the New Vector skin compared with the current Vector skin. I am really fune with any font, as there aren't really any fonts that I hate. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 16:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And is there by any chance you could show a preview of the main page with the fonts already in place, kind of like you can do with skins in Special:GlobalPreferences. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 16:11, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) I think it will be a real challenge to get everyone to agree on a single font if we look at the amount that have already been proposed by members of Meta. Personally I am indifferent to which font is chosen but I am not quite sure how the issue of font will be settled and even how many people will use this new skin to begin with. I believe that a method could be to ask each user to rank their top three skins and select that way. --DeeM28 (talk) 18:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Needless to say, I'm on the same boat as you considering how I could care less about font choices, as long as the new update has the potential to be good. DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 01:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I will wait some days to see if something changes. I think can help us organizing a typeface "rank" if needed.  &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 15:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it should stay looking how what it is like, no need to change it Lucasrighthere (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * They're changing the fonts mainly because of the upcoming MediaWiki 1.36 update. The font that we're currently using might go out of date. Who knows? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 01:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think you're confusing things, this is the font for the wordmark specifically, not the content text. Miraheze does not have a specific font for logos with text. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 17:23, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) I may consider requesting for a Open Sans. It kina looks really decent for a wiki.  Circley  Does Extracter    ( Circley Talk  |  Global   |  Email the Cloud )  12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Another option is Futura, which is the font used in the footer button. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 13:12, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

General Comments
I've created and added mockups of each proposed font. By the way, we should also decide on a font color. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 20:05, 10 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks! But I think black is fine, I don't see any need to change the color. &mdash;Lakelimbo (talk)&emsp; 20:28, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, the text should really probably say something like Meta Wiki or Miraheze Meta or even just Meta as opposed to just Miraheze. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MacFan4000 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we can customize the actual text after the RfC closes, but my personal preference would be for it to say "Miraheze Meta," since it's, yes, a local Meta Wiki, but it's also Miraheze's principle website besides just landing page (which actually doesn't say all that much about Miraheze). Dmehus (talk) 15:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

What does the New Vector skin look like? Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:43, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Blubabluba9990 You can see what it looks like here Dmehus (talk) 21:51, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok. I prefer the current Vector. We are keeping the current Vector, right? Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Blubabluba9990 Yep, I prefer Legacy Vector as well. That's right; Legacy Vector will always be the default skin configuration unless individual wikis opt to make New Vector the default. Dmehus (talk) 21:55, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok. We should give New Vector a different name though to avoid confusion with Legacy Vector. Blubabluba9990 (talk) 21:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, that's upstream, so would have to be requested on Wikimedia Phabricator, unfortunately. Basically, it's still Vector, but one simply goes into Special:Preferences and unticks "Legacy Vector" if they want to show New Vector. Dmehus (talk) 22:02, 11 May 2021 (UTC)