Requests for Comment/Amanda ban appeal

Amanda ban appeal
Greetings to the Miraheze community,

I’m not thrilled that I’m having to do this again, but it seems that I will need to. So I will. I would like to appeal and request a repeal of a ban against me that was implemented here. Unless I’m missing something (and I very well may be), I take that the ban was applied to me for two reasons:


 * 1) LP compromised my account and made nonsense wiki requests with it, as well as destroyed WikiCanada
 * 2) CheckUser was not able to differentiate between LP and myself due to IP similarity (which was to be expected)

However, both of these terms are no longer applicable. I have completely replaced my Internet routers and VPN servers (both), and configured both of them with a totally different security algorithm and encryption keys then before. Additionally, I configured my router so that no Internet sites can be accessed without entering the encryption key. Therefore, LP won’t be compromising anything in the near future.

The other main factor to be considered is that LP has been arrested. According to what I know, she was arrested on 1 charge of cyberharassment and on 1 charge of illegal stalking. Both are small charges in Canada, but this still means that she won’t be around to cause trouble.

While I am not happy that this has occurred, I think that this would be an opportunity for me to try and revive my Miraheze reputation without having to worry about LP compromising my account or other nonsense like that. Since my Amanda SUL account has been compromised, I would prefer to start fresh with this account. I would probably still want to do WikiCanada or something similar, although I haven’t really thought about it much.

Also, I previously provided the Miraheze Staff Team with copies of both my photo ID and LP’s photo ID to prove that we were two separate people (this was done at the request of ). However, nobody from the staff team ever acknowledged them or even made any attempt to do so. The ID’s that were previously submitted have now expired, but new ID’s have been issued. As such, I am still willing to provide a photo ID upon request. However, I cannot provide LP’s ID since she is in prison.
 * TL;DR The conditions from which I was collaterally banned from Miraheze (compromised account and technically indistinguishable from LP) both no longer apply. Additionally, the fact that LP has been arrested should be considered new evidence. As such, I am appealing the community ban.

[Closed] Proposal 1
A complete and unconditional unban from the Miraheze community following the closure of this RFC.

Support
Vote struck; see below. Amanda123 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  as proposer. Amanda123 (talk) 20:49, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * 1)  This user is abusive on our wikis, on Wikimedia wikis and everywhere. MacFan4000 (talk) 20:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This is incorrect. LP is abusive on multiple wikis. Not me. Just for the record, this account and all of its sockpuppets are operated by LP, not me. As noted below, I am willing to submit a photo ID to staff in order to confirm this. Amanda123 (talk) 21:08, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  Given previous altercations, I have absolutely no reason to believe you and would ask you please go elsewhere, your presence here only seems to lead to trouble. GethN7 (talk) 21:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand that you do not believe me. Personally I would feel the same way if I was a member of the staff team. However, that’s why I’ve offered to provide photo identification to the staff in order to verify my claims. It is now in their hands to accept it or not — and if they choose not to, you can’t blame me. Amanda123 (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  - What number attempt is this? LulzKiller (talk) 02:44, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The number attempt doesn’t matter. What matters is that there is new evidence concerning this issue and therefore I have the right to appeal again. Amanda123 (talk) 10:30, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see the evidence. LulzKiller (talk) 11:49, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If you read the initial statement, you would see the evidence. The evidence that that LP has been arrested and therefore won’t be causing problems, and that I can provide proof of my identity to the staff team if they request it. Amanda123 (talk) 12:33, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You stating that something is the case is not evidence. That is a statement, surely Canada has inmate records like America does. LulzKiller (talk) 13:03, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Surely Canada has inmate records like America does — indeed they do. However, they are not publicly accessible and transcripts must be requested with a valid reason. “Getting unbanned from Miraheze” unfortunately I don’t think is a valid reason. Amanda123 (talk) 14:09, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Being a family member is a valid one. LulzKiller (talk) 14:49, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, although I may still need a reason for family requesting it. I’ll see what I can do, however. Amanda123 (talk) 14:51, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Garden-variety oppose — (See my prior comment below.)  The common thread here is the rebuttal of each negative vote.  The missing element is why Amanda needs to return here, except to act out further before an audience that knows her.  As when one stalks an ex-lover for the sake of having the last word, the wisest course of action is, as GethN7 says above, to start over elsewhere, and be on your best behavior this time.   03:38 3-Nov-2017
 * I don’t need to return here. However, I want to return here as I like Miraheze and I was only banned for collateral reasons that no longer exist. Also, I’m only rebutting the negative votes because the reasoning behind them is based off of incorrect information. Amanda123 (talk) 10:30, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  I see this user is still trying to dictate terms when asking for a favour: "Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated." Opposed until this user learns how to handle dissenting views expressed in public, which the quoted statement shows is not yet the case. --Robkelk (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * See also her command to Admins on User:Amanda123, also her adversarial welcome on User talk:Jaison9.  16:53 3-Nov-2017
 * I am willing to accept opposing views in public. Notice how I didn’t just remove any of the above opposing comments, but rather I replied to them and addressed their concerns. However, nobody has to be able to deal with or accept people making attacks against them or calling them derogatory names. Stating that people calling me derogatory names will not be tolerated is not dictating anything - rather it is requiring politeness, which any user is free to do in any discussion. Also, part of my initial proposal was a self-imposed ban from interacting on Meta, which means that I wouldn’t be interacting with you or anyone else who shares your views. Amanda123 (talk) 16:45, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * In a prior role, my job was to get the chimpanzees back to their comedy typewriters. At Miraheze, no one on Meta seems anxious that a lot of content be created at top speed.  Nevertheless, when a permabanned user returned and spent the entire morning re-litigating the past, jousting with all comers, and getting everyone to pay attention to her, I reacted unambiguously to restore order.   16:53 3-Nov-2017
 * Actually it's not dictating since what was said is policy and general human decency. John (talk) 17:16, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Then why does it need to be restated, and only in sections that are expected to hold dissenting views? Dissent is not incivility. --Robkelk (talk) 20:53, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Because the history of these debates usually end in uncivil comments and the last RfC was actually a factor for establishing said policy. John (talk) 21:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) For the formality. &mdash;  revi  05:26, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you mean by that? Amanda123 (talk) 21:14, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  This is just an another way to gather attention and I dont like it, it would go against our policies to let LTAs into Miraheze. So lets stick with our current block/ban/lock. Zppix (talk) 18:48, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This fact would be true if it was LP who was appealing the ban. But it isn’t LP appealing, and therefore the fact is not true. Amanda123 (talk) 21:13, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * "LP implies F. Not LP; therefore, not F."  That is nonsense for the sheer joy of being adversarial.   02:17 5-Nov-2017
 * 1)  —Alvaro Molina  (✉  - ✔ ) 22:16, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose votes without a rationale are unhelpful. Amanda123 (talk) 22:51, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) Abstain Am too new to know the details of this case.  Expiration of a photo ID does not mean someone ceases to be the person identified, so a new ID should not be required.  A promise not to use Phabricator should not be a condition, as it is necessary to do several technical things.  But if Amanda is allowed back on, "nonsense wiki requests" should be reacted to harshly no matter how they are made.  Don't know how a user "destroys" a wiki irreparably.  Amanda's claim that the nuisance was not she but a housemate, or whatever, is unknowable to us.   22:04 2-Nov-2017
 * While your initial claim about ID expiration is true, the new ID’s are significantly different than the original ones, and technically I’m not allowed to provide the original ones as a method of official identification. Additionally, I can refrain from using Phabricator as I am familiar with MediaWiki code and therefore can PR all changes to my wiki on GitHub myself. The original wiki was destroyed by the abusive user compromising my account and then using Special:Nuke on the entire wiki. Amanda123 (talk) 22:08, 2 November 2017 (UTC)


 * 1) I have little knowledge about Lawrence Prairies and Amandas involvement with her. I have heard she has terrorized this community but due to the fact I simply do not have enough info on LP and Amandas history I simply cannot vote on this ban appeal. If someone would provide me with a relatively in depth history of this case I may reconsider by abstention. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  19:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Basically it went down like this:
 * User:Lawrence-Prairies (my sister) came to Miraheze and started a wiki
 * LP was then in a car accident and was hospitalized — and I took over management of her wiki during this time
 * After LP was released from the hospital, we both continued to contribute to the wiki and the Miraheze community
 * Eventually, LP was globally banned due to a series of issues
 * LP was not able to accept the ban, and started spamming and vandalizing the wiki, I think just to make a point.
 * I requested an exception that would allow me to edit despite the ban on LP, which affected me at the time as we lived in the same apartment complex
 * LP then compromised my account and made a disaster, causing me to be globally locked again
 * LP has now been arrested, and my account and Internet connections have been secured. As such, there should be no more disruption from LP in the near future, and therefore I would like to come back to Miraheze as I was banned solely because LP compromised my account and CheckUser couldn’t tell the two of us apart
 * Per request of NDKilla, I provided photo ID to prove that LP and I were actually two people, however NDK didn’t do anything with it. As such, here we are now. Amanda123 (talk) 19:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Could you please tell me what these "series of issues" were. Also do you have any proof that you sent an email to NDKilla containing information that you and LP were not the same person. From my reading of this I am getting the inclination that it is very far fetched and I do believe that your claims are not 100%. You said above there are no public arrest records of LP but I know Canada is a liberal country and I believe that arrest records would be available under some Freedom of Information act. I ask you Amanda, If you really want to get back on Miraheze, you must provide evidence that both you and LP are two different people and secondly you should try your best to provide info of LP's arrest. I believe a FOI request would be possible. My abstention still stands. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  00:38, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I do have proof of the email I sent, but I can’t upload the screenshot due to an edit filter preventing me from doing so. Amanda123 (talk) 16:00, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Send me the proof through my business email: cnocbridebusiness@gmail.com &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  16:53, 4 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Of course this is ideal, but it appears that the community is not in my favor on this one. Amanda123 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * Can I please get a staff opinion from each of you? Thanks. Amanda123 (talk) 10:33, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in looking at other people's ID card, in whatever circumstances, unless I'm required to do so by Republic of Korea law. No other comments. &mdash; revi  11:01, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The only comment I will make is that I don't see why an ID necessarily proves that two users are different people. What says that even if you provide two IDs one of two, one of them isn't the sole user of Amanda, ILB, LP, etc. accounts? Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 18:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It’s not really fair IMHO for you to make a comment discrediting my claims and then say that it is your “only comment”. In response to your exact comment, if you don’t think that photo ID is sufficient enough to prove my identity, what  do you  feel is sufficient? Amanda123 (talk) 19:06, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said above, proof of your sisters arrest would be necessary. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  00:41, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Proposal 2
A complete unban from the Miraheze community following the closure of this RFC, on the condition that I provide some form of identification/confirmation to the Miraheze staff team. Preferably, this would be photo ID as it would be the easiest for me to submit, however another method may be considered if it is possible and reasonable.

Support

 * 1)  This would also be ideal, but given the above I think that the community will also be against me here as well. Amanda123 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * 1)  MacFan4000 (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As noted to AlvaroMolina above, simple oppose votes without a rationale are unhelpful. Amanda123 (talk) 22:07, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Nobody can verify that those two identity in real life is different identity on the web. &mdash;  revi  20:40, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * So if that’s the case, what method do you recommend for me to prove that I’m not LP? Amanda123 (talk) 22:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Not mine to decide when there is no consensus to accept 'you'. &mdash; revi  05:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  Simply put, this community owes you nothing, and the consensus has been clear on whether they care to humor your presence, and my only request is for you to honorably accept that and gracefully leave without further incident. GethN7 (talk) 04:18, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That is not true. The community does owe me something. This community banned me simply over a compromised account, which is not in the least of terms fair or appropriate. Amanda123 (talk) 09:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1)  LulzKiller (talk) 07:31, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.

Proposal 3
A limited unban from Miraheze, with a self-imposed “global topic ban” of sorts. This “topic ban” would include the following:


 * A complete ban from participating on Meta, including becoming a wiki creator or commenting on future RFCs/other requests
 * A complete ban from participating in the #miraheze IRC channel, unless needed for an emergency
 * A complete ban from participating on Miraheze Phabricator
 * A partial ban from participating on Miraheze GitHub — the exception being creating new PR’s for my own wiki only. However, all other activity would be prohibited.
 * An interaction ban between myself and any other members of the Miraheze community, except the independent users of my own wiki

All of the above inclusions of the topic ban would last indefinitely. Should I want them repealed, a new RFC or other discussion would be required. Should I violate any of the above restrictions, my account shall be blocked on Meta with talk page access. This way, I can handle the situation on my Meta talk page. This would also be an exception to the first condition of the topic ban.

Support

 * 1)  Second alternative to proposal 4 below. Amanda123 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 2)  My patience is wearing thin with these proposals. Anyway, what I think we should do is unban Amanda on one wiki only. One wiki for her to use for her own project. Amanda should be banned from Meta, Phabricator and Github with no exceptions. She should not be allowed to request one right. She should be confined to her own wiki and the only way she can make feature requests is by setting up a page on the wiki that will list any extensions or feature requests she may need. This list should be checked every two weeks by a Miraheze volunteer/staff member and should be added to the wiki. My reasoning for this is that she has caused great destruction to the Miraheze community (I have put some thought into this) but I do not believe a full on ban is necessary. I believe one last chance will be necessary and if she fails to comply she should be banned indefinitely with no chance of appeal. If Amanda does not accept these terms I will oppose every other proposal that she makes and support the "Go away" proposal. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  19:35, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * 1)  MacFan4000 (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 2)  GethN7 (talk) 04:19, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * Please elaborate further as to why you believe that this proposal is not a fair compromise. Essentially, if this proposal is implemented, it would give the community what they want (not having me around), while also giving me what I want (a wiki on Miraheze). Basically, this would amount to me being able to host a wiki, but yet the community won’t see me and I won’t see them. Amanda123 (talk) 15:27, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll be blunt, I could care less and simply wish you would gracefully leave. There are many other services for wiki hosting you could try, and you can always self host if you wish to. Your fixation for here is frankly offputting and given how drama always tends to follow your presence, I believe the community would be better served if you simply picked up stakes and moved elsewhere. GethN7 (talk) 04:16, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * And that’s exactly my point. You (both referring to yourself and the community) don’t want me here. I just want a wiki here. So, where do we meet in the middle? I simply keep to myself on my wiki only and work in the background. This way, the community doesn’t see me and I don’t see them. Amanda123 (talk) 09:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Proposal 4
A combination of proposals 2 and 3 above. Essentially, this would implement proposal 3 in its entirety, but also require the terms of proposal 2 beforehand.

Support

 * 1)  I think that this is a fair compromise between what I want and what the community seems to want. Amanda123 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.
 * 1)  MacFan4000 (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 2)  GethN7 (talk) 04:19, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments
Any comments in this section must be civil. Personal attacks, insults, or other derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.

Proposal 5: Just go away
OP is obviously evading a permaban, and has contributed hours of drama for its own sake. If love of Miraheze were the basis, then OP (who is not subject to any of the old IP range blocks) could have created a new identity and resumed editing, though I suspect this inability to participate in normal discourse would eventually out her.

All the blather about photo ID is moot; the issue in question is not, "I can prove who I am" but "None of the past unpleasantness was me but my evil twin," which can not only not be proven but tends to be disproven by the current unpleasantness, the gratuitous adversarialness, the need to structure everyone else's utterances before they are uttered. Now, in what fantasy world does a person losing an 8-1 vote (and evading a permaban) get to give the body three more proposals to vote for? Me, I'd rather spend the time writing funny stuff on my wiki.

Support

 * 1)    21:45 5-Nov-2017
 * OP has deleted my post twice, for being "unhelpful." To the contrary, these reverts exactly prove my point.   22:35 5-Nov-2017
 * 1) . LulzKiller (talk) 04:22, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) Community in the page alone has shown 'Amanda' that they are not welcome here. I have no idea why they need to be allowed here despite everyone says clear no.  &mdash;  revi  05:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 3)  MacFan4000 (talk) 12:06, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 4)  This drama is getting old and distracts Miraheze from doing it's business. Having the source of said drama leave would benefit the entire farm. GethN7 (talk) 01:11, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not willing to “just go away”. I am not wiling to “leave the farm”. The only reason why this is a major drama is because of the community, not me. As I’ve said multiple times now, I am not and I never was a troublemaker. The only thing that I did wrong was failing to secure my account and Internet connections enough to keep LP out. However, that is no longer an issue, and I have offered to provide evidence of all of these claims to the Miraheze staff team, yet they have ignored me. Instead of just telling me to go away, how about you answer the question where I pinged you above on proposal 3? Amanda123 (talk) 01:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * To clarify my vote: I will not vote to give OP best-two-of-three. I will not vote to give OP a consolation prize.  The statement just above, that her behavior patterns are not the issue but rather the problem is everyone else in the community, is revealing.  OP promises to conduct herself invisibly in her own wiki; again, if this were her real goal, she would have done it by now.  The promise is unbelievable given her simultaneous criticism of staff for ignoring her.  I do not know nor care about Amanda's past here; this page alone shows the behavior of a stalker.   14:15 7-Nov-2017
 * Believe me, If I could’ve conducted myself invisibly on my wiki, I would’ve done so. However, you are missing the point, which is that I  cannot do so  because of inconsiderate Miraheze staff. If you can talk some sense into the staff and convince them to allow me to operate my wiki in peace, I would greatly appreciate it. Until then, we are here as this appears to be the only way that I can operate a wiki in peace. Amanda123 (talk) 14:20, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose

 * If you insist on having this here, fine. However, for the record this proposal is irrelevant and unhelpful. The entire RFC is about proposals that the community might agree on to allow to me to edit Miraheze again. This proposal is the exact opposite and therefore contradicts the entire point of the RFC. Additionally, the proposer said “If love of Miraheze were the basis, then OP (who is not subject to any of the old IP range blocks) could have created a new identity and resumed editing” — believe me, if I could do that, I would’ve done so a long time ago. However, the inconsiderate Miraheze staff won’t let me do that, and that’s why we are here. Amanda123 (talk) 22:40, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments

 * For the record, I am not evading a permban. The ban only affected LP, not me. I was just caught in the collateral damage because CheckUser couldn’t differentiate us when we were living in the same apartment complex. Amanda123 (talk) 22:42, 5 November 2017 (UTC)