Community noticeboard/Archive 1

__NOINDEX__

Welp, not sure where to put this
So I'm throwin it here. For user rights pages (Bureaucrats, Wiki creator, rtc) we need to choose plural or singular (preferably plural imo) and stick with it. We shouldn't use singular on one page and plural on another. Also, I can see the need for Admins redirecting since its an abreviation but is there a need to have one tense of wikicreator redirect to the other?
 * I know. I just went on ListUserRights and that's why the pages got created like that.--Reception123 (talk) 01:36, 8 August 2015 (EDT)

Dormancy policy
See Stewards'_noticeboard for a discussion on the dormancy policy proposals. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 19:25, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposal of a global "helper" user group
We should have a global "helper" user group for volunteers that aren't sysadmins (such as Me and ImBoPhl), that includes read permissions and whatever else is deemed useful for us. MacFan4000 (talk) 00:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay I agree I ready MT7 (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest cranking out a list of permissions that you think this group should need, because right now, it's a lot too vague. To be honest, there is not a lot to stop you from requesting steward if you want to (except, where to put said request). It's worth a thought though. -- Void  Whispers 02:30, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I from WMF maybe I want to help out in here. But I think not.But if you appointed me I can maybe agree. MT7 (talk) 12:23, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Frustrated with Miraheze

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * ❌. This discussion is closed per my latest comment. As the co-founder of the wiki, I herby forbid the wiki from being taken offline at least until after the New Year. This gives DQ a chance to completely recover and gives her and I a chance to discuss what we want to do. Amanda (talk) 18:55, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

I am totally frustrated with Miraheze. No offense to sysadmins and developers, I think you need to be a little more open. There are hundreds of wikis that have closed, mostly due to inactivity. However, I would be willing to bet that some of those communities have moved elsewhere for a larger setup, etc. My sister and I just wanted a place to host a MW wiki with lots of options as to how it looks and runs. Believe me, I've looked just about everywhere, and pretty much all of MediaWiki's free hosts are either dead, unable to be connected to, or are running an ancient version of MediaWiki and thus significantly lack features. I have a personal GitHub repository that contains what my sister and I would like to see out of a MediaWiki host.

I find myself running into the same roadblock that our cousin, MatthewPW, ran into. My sister never imagined needing these advanced features when she came to Miraheze. However, things changed, and she (as well as I) feel that control is important. I've seen so many wiki farms go dead because they were attacked by spam or other disruptive content, and our goal was to create a wiki that had everything possible to prevent that in our hands. Know that extensions like CU or some of the others aren't things that we would necessarily want to use, but feel that having access to them is important, just in case of something bad or otherwise unforeseen happening.

I understand and respect the need for user privacy, but there just aren't too many reasonable options out there. After some research, this is what it comes down to:


 * ShoutWiki charges you $5.50 just to get rid of page-cluttering ads.
 * Referata has a free plan, but it seriously lacks features and the requests page seems to have been ignored for some time.
 * MyWikis charges you $8/mo to do anything, and $35/mo to have a fully managed site
 * Several other hosts are located on Europe or elsewhere and don't have an English version
 * A large majority of farms have been dead for several years now
 * And the list goes on.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from any why I'm so frustrated. I did also try installing MediaWiki myself. I was doing well, extracting/decompressing data & copying files, until I hit a roadblock.... "Error: No independent database detected". Great! I don't have the foggiest of a clue how to set up an independent database. BTW I tried using Bitnami Cloud Hosting on their free plan, which is "fully managed", but yet that option has absolutely NO EXTENSIONS whatsoever included, with no obvious way to add/request them. Amanda (talk) 15:20, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Paid Hosting is uasally better then free hosting as we have said before. MacFan4000 (talk) 15:29, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it comes down to a lack of same values. Miraheze is a niche in the hosting industry in that it doesn't provide a service to a person but rather a community. Miraheze's core principles are:
 * 100% open-source code and management;
 * no ads;
 * no charges at all, ever;
 * and community centered.
 * The first 3 seem to be down your alley but the last one isn't. We're not a host you make a wiki with and get full access to manage it - we fuel communities and delegate all responsibility to communities. In the beginning, communities are definitely small so we don't demand community view for everything and different communities have their own ways of dealing with running elements which we respect.
 * We do give a lot of control to wikis, but we're community centered so the highly restrictive things are withheld from small communities and only given when the community themselves have developed a strong view they feel it is necessary to have the relevant tools - and when that happens we will work with communities to ensure delegation benefits everyone. The most notable issue surrounding this has got to be CheckUser. We're in no way holding it back. If a community of significant size presents a vote locally saying "we want access to CheckUser", we will work with the community to ensure a satisfactory resolution is met - if that means granting CheckUser locally under stipulated guidelines and policies then it will happen.
 * Stewards recently became a ratified community-handled group - it always was though there was no set in stone policy over how certain events would be handled. If someone presented a successful election as a steward, we will make them a steward. We don't hold back from communities - we do hold back from single people requesting something that doesn't block them in growing their community. Stewards are always open to handle the restrictive work on all wikis where necessary and system administrators are bound by consensus unless legal or otherwise security threats prevent it being carried out. John (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreeing with John, we have never said 'we won't delegate CheckUser' or anything even remotely similiar, but like John said you are not a community with a thought out process asking for a tool that will benefit the community. You have actually explicitly said that (you|your sister|your cousin) want complete control, and this is something we are unwilling to give you. Complete control doesn't really benefit the communities, especially not for a public wiki about Canada. You have [no] users and [no] community. We want you to grow and thrive with Miraheze but you haven't gotten a community (or attempted to?), you haven't reasonably discussed why you want/need it, etc. etc.
 * "me/my sister" doesn't constitute 'community'
 * "I want to fight spam" isn't a valid reason. You need to explain to us why Stewards doing their jobs (as defined by the community) is not enough for you. We hate spam just as much as any wiki founder, this is why we've been working to resolve issues with Captchas, and why we use such a good captcha.
 * TL;DR since you literally copy/pasted half of your argument from a Phabricator task, I'm starting to think that you, like MatthewPW will never be happy with Miraheze since we are unwilling to give you [a single user] complete control over your wiki. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 16:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The main issue isn't the community, although that's part of it. The main issue here is that MediaWiki seems to have had so many free hosting services that did provide control of your wiki, but so many of them have gone down. I've seen a few where one or two wikis got attacked by spambots or hackers, and those two wikis were enough to kill the entire host. Also, I truly have nothing against paid hosting, I only am against the fact that the hosts I've researched, as noted in my list above, are so expensive to do anything. For a true example, look at WikiFree. This was a host that provided access to many advanced tools and extensions, but the entire site has gone down due to someone overloading the database server. Now, only an error message in Italian remains of the host. My family altogether has been fascinated with the concept of a wiki for quite some time. We even went to Wikimania one year and loved it. Our perfect paradise would be to have a wiki of which the configuration settings would be completely founder and co-founder controlled, but that the actual setup of a personal database could be eliminated. As noted above, Bitnami Cloud is the closest I've come to achieving that, however Bitnami has absolutely no extensions and therefore is useless. Amanda (talk) 17:19, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * BTW it's not my fault that I don't have a community. I do have plenty of users on my wiki, but none of them have ever attempted to contribute in a non-technical way. I also put up a tweet about WikiCanada a few days ago, which went nowhere. Amanda (talk) 17:22, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately full control is something you can't get without going fully managed. If you use a service, that service is legally responsible for ensuring the service provided obeys the relevant laws the service has to abide by. For Miraheze, we're bounded by US and Dutch law though Dutch law brings in caveats in that we're then also bound by European Law which is infamous for having extremely tough and awkward privacy laws. Even with community delegation of said rights, it's something we need to constantly monitor and at the first sign of plausible misuse would result in revocation of said rights and Miraheze looking at the impacts of misuse and coming to a reasonable conclusion which may in the end result in a ban for a user (or an entire wiki) from gaining access to said tools again. It's a very very fine line and a very risky one legally which is why we can't give out anything that can be deemed 'private' to people without a proper sense of vetting. If we were to, then the long run would mean we have to vet everyone who has the potential to gain the rights which means every user registering an account in order to protect us legally which is just not feasible. If you go hosted on your own, then you are legally responsible for your own use while with Miraheze, we are legally responsible in addition to you. John (talk) 18:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Having kept a curious interest in this ongoing topic, both here and on the recently archived Requests for Comment/Stewards page, I can understand why Amanda would want control of the her wiki but at the same time I can easily see the flipped of this argument as John has made some obvious points regarding the issues that come with full control. Having full control certainly brings a whole new bunch of issues. This is fine on a single, paid-for hosting package and you know how to legally and responsibly provide that service. You are in control: the problems, software testing and updates, the legalities, the whole kit and caboodle. I had a wiki for several years where I was in full control so I know what problems can come from this and believe me, having a wiki here is a whole lot better if you want all the perks of having a wiki but without all the technical and legal stuff that goes with it, which, if you don't really know you could be shooting yourself in the foot. I am nowhere near as technically savvy as the administrators and stewards, which is why am pleased they offer a service that takes care of the heavy lifting for you. They provide a service that is in the best interests for the community and this does mean there are some things you cannot do, especially when privacy is involved. I know that if I have a problem with my wiki I can ask someone about it. Yes, it might take a while for a response or to be resolved and I might not always get the answer I want but that's life. I have been knocked back a couple of times with requests but I don't take it personally. However, I can understand the frustrations of relinquishing full control to partial control. Not being able to add extensions and access to Localsettings.php was little strange at first and maybe still is. But the heavy lifting is taken care of for me and I know if there are spam/vandalism issues on my wiki I can ask for help and it will looked into and resolved, it is hoped, in a timely manner. Borderman  talk 22:24, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This is totally getting out of control. I have made my point clear that CheckUser is not the main issue here. I understand that certain MediaWiki extensions will break Miraheze and CentralAuth, and do not challenge that. However, certain extensions I have requested (for example, this one) does not involve user groups altogether, and yet have been declined. It seems like the only extensions that I can have easily are ones that are pre-installed. Even ones that don't mess with any configuration settings (example) have been acknowledged and submitted but never done ( that comment is pointed at you). In other issues, I have now had to kick NDKilla off WikiCanada after they kicked me off TestWiki. The runaway train of Stewards getting in my way never stops. (Especially after I was told that Stewards try to help communities). Amanda (talk) 14:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Note that Stewards have read globally which overwrites the local revocation. Also note that stewards have unblock self globally, so you can not fully kick out any steward. MacFan4000 (talk) 14:08, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I also have an abuse filter to stop edits by the annoying Stewards. Also, Stewards may have the technical ability to, but smart Stewards wouldn't intentionally evade local restrictions. Amanda (talk) 14:11, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Regarding the SiteSettings extension, we have a process of handling things both technically and on a standard practise way. The time it would take to review the extension could be better placed in developing our own home-grown version that exact suits our needs and has a global back-door in to allow trusted people to aid and assist in supporting requests. Our own version also centralises config so we only have to realistically support one standard rather than ensuring n number of settings tables are secure, easily accessible and work with our system. ApprovedRevs is being reviewed, though with only one person reviewing and having a rather large backlog of existing reviews and at the same time maintaining a full time job - we can't commit to review and deploying extensions in the same day, or even same week. Regarding stewards, I note you don't have a filter to prevent edits by annoying stewards but rather all stewards currently. We also do work with communities to help them - we don't hinder them at all. The TestWiki incident to me seems valid as you unblocked users who has been blocked within local policies permanently. John (talk) 16:20, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm kind of at the end of my rope here. Amanda has attempted to ban the founders of this wiki farm from her wiki (it won't work obviously), which is a slap in the face to the people who give her stuff for free, but an OK protest I guess?  Except that we've taken all of her requests seriously so far, so I'm not sure what she's protesting other than wanting different free stuff than the free stuff we're willing to give?  And then she's trying to play staff against each other by talking to them and granting privileges to some while revoking others (it won't work obviously).  This behavior seems to be in common between MatthewPW, Amanda, and DeltaQuad -- this big sense of entitlement to free stuff on their terms.  It doesn't even matter at this point whether it's a family or a sock-drawer or false-flag operation.   We are wasting everyone's admin time on this trio for a couple months now and it needs to stop.  I've said several times nicely that I think what she wants can't be compatible with what we are willing to offer, and that it was time to leave, but the hint was not taken.  So here's what I'm doing:
 * I refuse to review ApprovedRevs. It's big, complicated, unnecessary, and requested by a wiki that will never last on Miraheze.
 * I request an IP ban for Amanda. We need to stop wasting time on a problem customer, so that we can solve problems rather than talk about problems.
 * I propose we take wikicanada offline immediately. If Amanda or DeltaQuad wants a copy of the wiki database, she can email us.  Sorry DeltaQuad -- your sister messed things up for you, I guess.
 * That about does it. Hey  if you need a technical request expedited, let me know.  Thanks for your kind words.  Labster (talk) 10:01, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I understand. So basically, SiteSettings doesn't have technical issues, but would just duplicate another extension that is already in development? Amanda (talk) 12:29, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well yes. And the extension at hand stores all its configuration locally, while we are planning on doing this in a central location. This would mean the migration work would be exponentially more than not bothering over the extension and would in the long run perhaps delay the deployment of our own extension even longer. This is not even considering the effort we'd need to make sure that extension works with out deployment off the bat. John (talk) 16:01, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

(Reset indent) none of that was threatening. If a system administrator thinks you are wasting or time or resources, its a valid concern that operations and/or Stewards should do something about. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 14:15, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Saying that you are going to disable my wiki sure is threatening. Amanda (talk) 14:27, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You either misread or misunderstood what User:Labster said. He didn't say 'I am closing that wiki right now and deleting the database damnit,' he proposed that we take the website offline since he believes you are more trouble than you are worth. None of the facts or requests were 'threats' they were just things he won't do (in the case of the first bullet) or requests (in the other bullets). -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 16:00, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * As the co-founder of the wiki, I herby forbid the wiki from being taken offline at least until after the New Year. This gives DQ a chance to completely recover and gives her and I a chance to discuss what we want to do. Amanda (talk) 18:34, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

Stewards vs. wiki founders
In the IRC logs, said: "they don't actually discuss anything they just want their way" - in response to that, now I will discuss.

The only reason that I requested steward is that I have a very high knowledge of the MediaWiki interfaces, and therefore can definitely help out the Miraheze community. I am nearing an expert level of every interface, from basic blocking to complex global account management. However, no one on this request has not allowed me to even demonstrate my abilities - instead they are just voting strong oppose over and over again. I believe the stewards should be able to be appointed just based on experience with the tools that they will have access to - no more, no less.

I also think that storing everything on a central database is causing issues. If Miraheze used one main database, but had smaller branches of said DB, none of these problems would even be an issue. The way I see it is that the reason certain highly-technical tools are restricted is because their use on a personal wiki could/would break their use on a global level. If each wiki was independent of each other, this wouldn't be an issue. --- DeltaQuad  (talk contribs email), 15:22, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Your mediawiki experience do matter, but Steward is a community role. You're asking for a sensitive tool(with the potential ability to look up other's location, etc...), so you have to show others that you're reliable not to abuse your mobs, not to make serious mistakes or problems, not to make a dispute in disrespectful manner. You have to demonstrate not only your ability, but also your reliability seen by others. &mdash; revi  18:49, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you're missing the point of the opposes. The main concern of most commenters is that even if your RfS is successful, sharing your account allows others to access tools only you should have access to. Also for the most part wiki databases are separate (local rights, pages, users, revisions and logs are all local) but central auth adds important functionality and links users across wikis. If wikis were completely separate there would be no global groups, and users on on each wiki wouldn't be the same name on another wiki; so impersonation would be possible. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 18:53, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * As mentioned in the RFS, the stewards themselves told me to share an account. What am I supposed to do - deny my sister from editing? That's not very fair, especially considering the fact that she was the one who kept WikiCanada when it was still around up and running while I was in the hospital. --- DeltaQuad  (talk contribs email), 19:56, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Main Policy

 * Even though this page is almost never used this is the appropriate place for this. Please check out Main policy/Draft and comment on it and perhaps edit it if needed. Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 10:19, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Possibility to translate more pages
Hi, I have seen that except for the Main Page, CheckUser, Oversight, Dormancy Policy and Help center there are no more pages that can be translated here, in fact there are a lot of pages and policies that would not hurt to mark for translation. Especially for users who do not speak or do not understand English. Some pages that could be marked are:


 * Wiki creators guide
 * Protected pages
 * Wiki creators
 * Rollbackers
 * Bots
 * Counter Vandalism Team
 * Miraheze Vacancies
 * Request features
 * Code of Conduct
 * Privacy Policy
 * Private wikis
 * Terms of Use
 * Security
 * Stewards
 * Backups
 * IRC

I could handle the translation tags (I have experience in that area) and then ask an administrator to mark the pages, but first I would like to know if the community would agree to this. I appreciate your comments. Thanks. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 11:26, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It won't hurt if pages are stable or almost stable. --逆襲的天邪鬼 (talk) 11:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've set a few up. Don't have time for others right now. John (talk) 13:30, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I will follow the others. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 15:48, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Done, the pages that are not crossed out I could not prepare them since they are protected and I can not edit them, reason why you or an administrator will have to do that procedure. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 16:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Question
En Phabricator, FAQ y Dormancy Policy, no llega a mencionar el caso en el que el Fundador de una wiki pida su eliminación. En el IRC me dijeron que la solicitud es hacerlo en Phabricator pero no veo que en estas lo mencionen. ¿Porque no se mencionan en alguna de estas páginas? o ¿será que lo incluyen en esta frase «If you want to report a bug or anything else please use this form»?. Si es lo segundo, creo que debería especificarse mejor para que sea claro o abrir otra opción --Wiki1776 (talk) 21:08, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * If I understand correctly, you are asking why deletion isn't mentioned. If that is the question, that is because it is something specific, and I don't think it is necessary to mention every specific request. I guess, if needed, it could be added to the FAQ, but IMO it would be unnecessary to do so on the other pages mentioned. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 18:18, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

A question about category extensions
First of all, having this community noticeboard is a great idea. I've wanted to ask just general stuff before now but there was never a place to post them. I know my question isn't directed at Meta but it is Miraheze related. I was wondering if anyone knows how the categories work on All the Tropes. I have noticed the same or similar on Public Test Wiki. I use categories extensively and the category system in place, especially on ATT, seems like the perfect tool. What is it called and is it even a possibility to get something like that installed on my wiki? If yes, I'll ask in the appropriate place, thanks. Borderman  talk 21:12, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * 'Sup Borderman. I'm pretty much responsible for all of the All The Tropes categories.  But I have no idea what you mean when you say "the category system".  There are a few things in play.  One is an extension I wrote called Highlight Links in Category, which is responsible for the green links.  Another extension is Category Tree which is enabled on all* of our wikis here.  Finally, there's HotCat, a gadget that allows you to easily add categories from the comfort of your page's category box.  Was there something else you see about ATT that you want? Anything from Category:Category extensions? --Labster (talk) 23:47, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * What I am interested in is the HotCat gadget to allow for easier adding, removing and editing of categories from the category box. This is what I meant by the "category system" (probably not the best wording on my part). I haven't used gadets before so don't really know how they work or are implemented. Are they set up by staff or are they something I can do in-wiki? There are a couple of other things I have seen on ATT that I like the look of but I'll ask about them in due course (probably message you direct if that's ok). Thanks.  Borderman   talk 07:11, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It can be done by users. All you need to do is copy the contents of files included here. Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 07:23, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * More specifically "MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat.js", "MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat", and "MediaWiki:Gadget-definitions". Reception123 (talk) ( contribs  ) 07:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've copied the contents and all seems to be working. Thanks for your help. Borderman   talk 09:08, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Suggestions on Noindex issues
I was just wondering if someone could educate me why the pages where I have included the __NOINDEX__ tag aren't showing up in my Noindexed pages tracking category. I know Manual:Noindex states there are several ways to do this, one of which is directly on individual pages but none are showing up in the category. To make this work does $wgExemptFromUserRobotsControl need adjusting? I'd have though this option would automatically be available for the 'main' namespace. Thanks. Borderman  talk 13:22, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * the opposite is actually true. By default the robots control applies to everything except $wgContentNamespaces. I think content namespaces should always be indexed (real content) where other pages it depends. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 13:45, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * So can I actually use the __NOINDEX__ tag in the main namespace on a Miraheze wiki? I agree content pages should be indexed but only when they have contain real content worth looking at. I don't really want redirects, certain admin categories etc. showing up in indexes. Borderman   talk 16:15, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I think redirects and hidden categories aren't indexed. If they are and you want to use noindex in the main namespace you'll have to request an edit to the config option you mentioned, telling us where those tags should be disallowed. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 16:33, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. If redirects and hidden categories aren't indexed that's fine. It was only those I was particularly bothered about. I haven't found any Mediawiki documentation yet that says for certain they aren't indexed. I noticed on Meta that templates, user and user talk pages have noindexed pages. Is this a global setting or unique to individual Miraheze wikis? Just trying to learn more about it. I realized that, even though I used to run a Mediawiki website a few years ago (with the help of someone who knew a lot more about it than me), I never really learnt the majority of it's functions - something I want to remedy. Borderman   talk 17:02, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Those pages are noindexed because of the keyword. By default, those 3 namespaces (and more) ate allowed to use those tags, since none of them are content namespaces. I believe all of Miraheze currently uses the MediaWiki default. If you'd like it changed you can ask, or read more about it. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 18:07, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

WikiForum: has anyone used it and when will it be "fixed"?
As the title suggests, I was wondering if any Miraheze user has WikiForum installed, what is like as a wiki-based forum and if anyone knows when the captcha issues will be resolved. I am currently archiving the majority of forum topics/posts from an old phpbb3 forum I administer but it is closing down in January 2018 because of soaring hosting costs (and one or two other reasons). I would like to be able to offer another forum to those who were regular users and I really like the ideas of an in-wiki forum. Any comments about the extension and when it might be fixed? Thanks. Borderman  talk 22:49, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There is currently a Phabricator task for this issue. The problem is this is an upstream issue caused by some bad defining there, so it is up to the authors of the extension to fix it. Though, a volunteer at the WMF (Wikimedia Foundation) has made a change to MediaWiki core itself which could work, but things like this take a long time to merge at the WMF, due to requiring many reviewers, etc. So, therefore I can't really give you an estimate on when it "will be fixed". All I can say is that I will keep trying and asking around about the fix, and that I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 05:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for letting me know. Do you know of any alternative extension that would the same or similar requirements of a forum? Borderman   talk 08:40, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The closest I can suggest is Flow, but it's not exactly a "forum". I'm not currently aware of another forum extension existing besides WikiForum. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 11:30, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd already looked at flow but it isn't really a suitable option as a forum replacement, thanks anyway. I'll wait and hope the developers fix the issue. Cheers. Borderman   talk 12:49, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Login error for all new users
I added new users today and they all received this error message when logging in:

[78f6951e12248e54ad506ef5] 2017-07-31 21:31:12 Fatal exception of type "Exception"

It also redirects the out to the miraheze.org login page where this error is displayed. But when they go back to our wiki page they are logged in.
 * This error occurs occasionally when system administrators make configuration changes in Miraheze. Usually do not usually last long because they are detected and solved easily. Regards. —<font color="#1406D0">Alvaro Molina (<font color="#137500">✉  - <font color="#137500">✔ ) 03:06, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That is not exactly the case. It seems like an error with CentralLogin. Normally there are other errors when logging in, but I haven't seen exceptions yet. If you are still experiencing this issue please create a task here. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 05:25, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Newcomer
Newcomer here, it's definitely still throwing error pages upon signup.Dennis.L (talk) 06:40, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As a general rule when logging onto a new website, be sure JavaScript and cookies are enabled. Login session information is stored in a cookie on your computer to avoid looking it up whenever a new request comes in from you.  Now, are you getting the same type of error as shown above?   12:48 18-Oct-2017

special:userlogout
2 from 59 image wikis are currently down. (%) 83.24.17.137 83.24.17.137
 * I don't understand what you mean. Could you please be more specific? Which wiki(s) are you talking about? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 11:37, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
 * some image don't loads

Permission by default
I was wondering if there is such an option that lets me give the permission to edit/delete/create/upload and every other ones only to myself, instead of being an open source to everyone who visits the wiki? (Metrocka (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2017 (UTC))
 * That is possible, yes. Edit can be disallowed for users and anonymous users. Which wiki would you like this on? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 12:04, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Pocket Monsters (Metrocka (talk) 12:13, 20 August 2017 (UTC))
 * ✅. If you have any other feature requests please request them on Phabricator. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 13:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Question about restricting page view
Hello,

I have a question. I'm building my first wiki (it's a private Wiki). The wiki is for documentation purposes so, I'd like:


 * Create 3 sections: 1 for SupportStaff, 1 for Sales Representatives and 1 for Customers;
 * Each person will have their own login but:
 * 1) if the login is listed inside SalesRepresentative, can view Sales Representative pages and Customer Pages, but the SupportStaff pages should denied from access (read only)
 * 2) if the login is listed inside SupportStaff, can view all sections (read only)
 * 3) If it is a customer login, the user can only access to Customer Area. SupportStaff Pages and Sales Representative Pages should be denied

Is there a way to do that in only one wiki?

I'm trying to understand, since I'm new, but I have different ideas that don't match.

Thank you very much for your help!

Serinf.it Roverato (talk) 19:53, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, this is no longer possible. It was done with an extension called AccessControl, only that 1) could cause leaks anyway 2) does no longer work with the newest version of MediaWiki. The only solution I see is created separate wikis. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 05:28, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Adjusting current time to local country
I was just wondering if anyone knows how to show the correct local time pertinent to individual countries using the  magic word. I am guessing this will have to be done by staff to adjust settings rather than anything I could do in-wiki. The "Time offset" in preferences is set to my local time (+1 hour Europe/London) but the current time magic word is still using the server time. I am in the UK and currently we are in BST, therefore, the time is out by one hour. Also, is there a way that it can automatically change to GMT after daylight saving time ends on 29 October or can the time only be shown in UTC? Thanks. Borderman  talk 10:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have set the time for your wiki (so default unless specified in preferences) to "Europe/London", so the magic word should also display this time now. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 10:17, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your quick response. My main page (top right) still seems to be showing the server time rather than the local time, which should be +1 hour for BST. Plus, the time doesn't refresh unless the page cache is purged, shouldn't it update with a simple page refresh? Or am I just missing something?  Borderman   talk 11:26, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I will have to look into that. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 11:34, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Found it! You need to use "LOCALTIME" instead of "CURRENTTIME" for it to work with your timezone. For the refresh vs. purge the cache I'm not sure, but it might be expected behavior. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 11:37, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, appreciate your help. That sorted the correct time, just not sure what to do about the refresh/purge issue. Borderman   talk 13:16, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If I may kibitz: Wikis tend to use UTC to reflect their worldwide participation. Take a look at the timestamps in just this conversation and imagine the jumble if everyone signed with their local time.  If your wiki is aimed only at the UK, your situation may be different, and LOCALTIME is a solution.  Wiki time is always 4 or 5 hours off for me.  Spike the Dog (talk) 13:18, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It is perfectly fine to use local time. As an example, Wikipedias (other than enwiki) use local times. If your editors are generally based in one timezone, it's preferable to use that timezone. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 13:24, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * My wiki is generally targeted at the UK simply because the subject matter is about a English battalion and the majority of people that look at it are typically from the UK. I say "typically" because in the past (prior to using Miraheze) I have had queries and research questions regarding descendants of soldiers from that battalion who were born and live in other countries, namely the US, Canada, Australia and NZ. However, that number is minimal and the date/time on the main page is there purely for recognition of a local UK time. Regarding signing comments, I very rarely get comments on talk pages so I don't really see it as an issue. I can, though, see your valid point how having BST/GMT and UTC timezone could get confusing but the point of having indented comments means that one comment usually follows from another regardless of timestamp. Borderman   talk 13:59, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Reset indent: Would it be worth looking into using the extension MagicNoCache as an option for the caching issue? Using a magic word seems appropriate to stop the main page caching. If so I'll include ticket on phabricator. Borderman  talk 14:16, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like a simple extension. Feel free to make a ticket and review should be pretty quick as the code is really simple. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 14:27, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Extension requested. I have added a temporary fix for now using purge as a link but hopefully this extension will sort the issue out. Cheers. Borderman   talk 14:43, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Just an update for anyone reading this, the MagicNoCache extension works perfectly if anyone else was thinking of doing the same or similar. 21:27, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Miraheze Best Hosting
Can I ask, how much large the storage miraheze can have? for 2000 wiki? Sptr (talk) 22:17, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean by "2000 wiki" but in theory, you should be able to use as much storage as you need. If there is no more free space left, we upgrade the servers. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 05:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Wow.. And how If I will to join in your community or miraheze team? and what the requirement should I have? Sptr (talk) 10:26, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You can be a volunteer. See Contributing. If you need any help or don't understand something feel free to ask me. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#d00404"> contribs  ) 10:50, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Members
How can I grant my member into my wiki, which mean, I have many friends at university and I want them can edit my page [] How do I do?
 * Since it is a wiki, by default any user can edit that page. If you want to configure different user rights than are listed here please make a request on Phabricator. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:13, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Pronouncing the name of the wiki farm
Have begun to contribute original material at  and have contemplated resuming recording narrations as I did at Wikia Uncyclopedia. One towering impediment exists: I would have to assemble a new outro, and I do not know how to pronounce "miraheze". Spike the Dog (talk) 02:05, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * We have gotten this question before a few times, I believe. I will quote one of the founder's responses, Southparkfan here: "Good question. The 'English' forms some use is my-ra-hez, or my-ra-he-zuh although as a Dutch guy I've also heard Mie-ra-he-zuh." I personally think the first one sounds better, "my-ra-hez" Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:47, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I assume those syllables are pronounced like the pronouns.  As the point of the outro is to advise the listener where to go to get more, "he-zuh" seems preferable.  This is truly the Touareg of wiki farms.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 13:27 2-September-2017
 * It's quite an unusual word. I always thought it was pronounced Mie-ra-heez. Borderman   talk 14:14, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, honestly I don't think there's a "correct" pronounciation and an "incorrect" one. Some people pronounce it in different ways, and since at Miraheze we have users who speak different languages, it is normal that pronounciation will differ between users, so I think any way that makes sense to you of pronoucing it is okay, and there doesn't have to be a single posibility. --Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:46, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

(reset indent) This is always super interesting every time it comes up and I just laughed thinking about this. I'm not even sure why but personally I know someone named Mira, like.. meer-uh so I've always pronounced it Meer-uh-heez I don't know if I'm doing the pronunciation things right tho. The "Mira" sounds almost like "mirror" but with an a not an o. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 00:48, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I recorded an outro last night for future use. As the only goal is to inform listeners where to click to get more, when they can't see the spelling, I elected "mira" with flapped r as in Spanish (where "mira" means "Look!"), then hee-zee.   23:12 22-Sep-2017
 * — And have finally recorded a narration that uses the outro, thanks to Reception123 via Phab enabling uploads of MP3. It is not an authoritative pronunciation, though it might become so, if no other pronunciation exists on the web.   02:07 13-Oct-2017

Signature files
Hello again! As you can see, I brought over a signature file; and as you can see in the source code,  is failing; it deposits the contents of the signature file at each signature, rather than the name of the signature file. It seems 's is doing the same thing. Mine failed even better when I tried to use  to isolate the last two digits of the year number at render-time. Are these optional features of MediaWiki? Is it known that these extensions are not supported on Meta? Should they be? <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke (talk) 12:30 3-Sep-2017
 * My signature has always deposited the contents of the signature page as it seems others have as well. To be honest I thought that was normal. Reminds me to change my signature to something more simple. Borderman   talk 11:18, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Don't work around the problem, solve it; planting just the name of your signature file in the talk page lets you make your signature as complex as you want, and lets changes be reflected in future and past posts. A web search suggests the magic word is  name of your signature file, but it isn't working here, as you can see.  Someone here must have figured out how to make this work.

11:47 14-Sep-2017
 * I am quite happy to keep my signature simple. For purposes on Meta, even my own wiki, it doesn't need to be overly complicated. However, as a work around, why not just create another signature page, then on your current signature page transclude the new page into it. The new signature page can be as complex as you like and the end result when signing after comments will be . If, for any reason this is deemed impractical, frowned upon or forbidden in wiki society then simply ignore.  Borderman  (Talk) 12:17, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks; that is the goal. But there is a way to make this work using a single file, and I'd like to stumble upon it.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 12:26 14-Sep-2017
 * PS--Ultimately I adopted Borderman's two-file solution, both on Meta and on TheMirror. Surprising that the signature in Preferences is different per-wiki.  On Wikia there is one Preference for all wikis; for signature, the user has to make sure he can have similarly named signature files on every wiki he visits.   03:57 15-Sep-2017
 * PPS--There is a one-file solution even when MediaWiki extensions are not installed, and I think I have found it, involving sticking a null HTML tag somewhere in the middle of  so software doesn't match on it (until later).   23:15 22-Sep-2017
 * I use the two-page method on a lot of wikis. However, may also work? -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 20:10, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry; what I did is something like that in a pre-load page for a user-callable edit box, to make something not substitute until the user saves the edit. It seems I have not yet tried that for signatures.   02:21 24-Sep-2017

Wikia/Fandom may be in trouble
To whom it may concern: Recently, Wikia/Fandom went a little too far (again) with ads, deciding to insert their own custom videos at the tops of high-traffic pages on some wikis. A lot of users aren't happy with the staff's aggressive nature in rolling out these videos, especially when some of them were out-of-date, out-of-touch, and pieced together from other youtubers' footage. The biggest barrier against them forking, however, is that they feel depressed about overcoming their own wiki's SEO. But maybe you guys have some experience in coaxing people to fork, idk. This is a good time to offer this wiki farm as a good option. Relevant links: One, and two. I would have contacted the admins here, but they don't seem to be readily active. So hope they see it here anyway, by themselves or if someone notifies them. --UltimateKuriboh (talk) 01:23, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikia Uncyclopedia forked in 2013 over a jihad against butt-crack photos and a cover-their-ass content warning that spoiled the satire encyclopedia concept. Admins have continually lamented the "cookie-cutter approach" in which authors are subordinated to a random theme devised by non-participants; mobile users are confronted by a series of content not by contributors, and a 2015 vandal hack resulted in a grand crackdown on the innocent.  Since then, Wikia has twice disinvited users of legacy browsers.  Your citation of a Wikia forum doesn't even render for me, but I took time to read the code and, yes, this crap happens all the time.  Since doing my individual fork, I have been pleased at how this farm just exists, and my writing is not put at the service of some San Francisco corporate awareness-raising concept.  Whether Wikia is "in trouble" I cannot say; even Twitter continues to thrive despite putting a Tweet from Velveeta at the top of everyone's timeline.  But past social sites choked the moment they tried to wring money out of their contributors.  Yes, it could be a recruitment opportunity for Miraheze, but you don't get web traffic without advertising; and hiring a marketing bureaucracy could be the beginning of the end.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 01:53 8-Sep-2017
 * I am not quite sure if I understood what you meant, but any "advertising" for Miraheze would just have to be done by volunteers, and definitely not paid, as we are a non profit. If there are any users who are looking to move to another wiki farm (i.e. Miraheze) anyone is free to tell them about it and I or another sysadmin will be happy to help with the transfer. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:29, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Word-of-mouth, though welcome, will not grow the website as quickly as will Wikia's payment to Google to goose it in web searches, nor even as quickly as non-MediaWiki alternatives for socializing/publishing/collaborating emerge on the Web. (I found you in the list of wiki farms on Wikipedia.  If a news outlet has anything to say about Miraheze, someone should document that, with a citation, at Wikipedia.)  Without saying that Miraheze should get anxious about growing quickly, being a nonprofit does not mean you cannot hire professionals.  (Being broke does.)  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 16:23 9-Sep-2017
 * News coverage is complicated, and would of course be something good for Miraheze, but has not yet happened. If we do have a reliable source, that would help us build a Wikipedia article, therefore more possibilities. Regarding the non-profit status, we're not actually incorporated yet, so the "hiring" part would also be slightly more complicated at the time being (IMO). I also think (I do not deal with the financial part, this is my opinion) that there isn't currently an interest in spending money on advertising/etc. and that users are rather interested in continuity and having enough funds to be able to keep Miraheze running. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 17:29, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay; so back to OP's point, the current round of Wikia creative interference with its contributors may be an opportune time to "coax people to fork." (Me, I have just spent 4 years there blocking attempts to coax people to fork, on the theory that it's wrong to use the company's resources to induce its stakeholders to defect.)  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 17:37 9-Sep-2017
 * So uh... Your words are flying over my head; could you rephrase "on the theory that it's wrong to use the company's resources to induce its stakeholders to defect"? Do you mean you believe it's wrong to hold forking discussions on Wikia/Fandom itself? If not, I am interested (in a simple explanation) as to why you'd help Wikia/Fandom keep its wikis from forking.
 * My original intent here was, "Hey guys, maybe 1 or 2 of you guys want to visit these 'complaint' threads and suggest this wiki farm as an option." Lol, I had no intention of saying miraheze should pay for an advertising division. Also, snagging one of these popular wikis would be good for "advertising" this wiki farm, assuming the relevant wiki has good connections with the community to switch over successfully. Bigger audience = more exposure. Case in point: I found about this wiki farm by visiting the BGO wiki. Then again, this wiki farm is seemingly non-profit(?), so maybe you wouldn't want a lot of traffic. --UltimateKuriboh (talk) 20:57, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do believe that. I might steal your girlfriend from you, but not at your dinner table if you invited me over.  I do not like what Wikia is doing, and has been doing for years, but would not use its servers to help wreck it.  Snagging 2 wikis might be an accomplishment; not a significant one.  Significant ones generally require serious advertising.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 21:23 9-Sep-2017
 * We haven't advertised ourselves in the past, and I don't think we will, in the foreseeable future. &mdash; revi  04:24, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think Wikia is just terrible. Wikia doesn't have nearly enough features to have a proper encyclopedia on a topic, and yet they are the most popular option (probably because it is easier to edit Wikia than Wikipedia), and therefore use that advantage to monetize their view counts. CoolieCoolster (talk) 05:35, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Both Wikia and Wikipedia are working on a what-you-see-is-what-you-get editor; I edit both, the old way, and don't see much difference in usability. The focus is different, fan blog or humor versus carefully documented assertions.  Some Wikia sites, such as   on the Star Trek universe, are quite complete and follow rules as tight as Wikipedia's.  Wikia does try to parlay its contributors' work into revenue; that is both its strength and the basis for the perennial complaints that contributions are manipulated by people in suits who don't understand them.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 13:05 14-Sep-2017
 * On Wikipedia, I fix promotional articles, as I believe that people trying to increase their revenue from a encyclopedia meant to freely spread knowledge is wrong. While I realize that Wikia could not survive off of donations like Wikipedia does due to it's sheer scale compared to its userbase, I think the fact that the same person founded two wikis with funding structures that are completely opposite in every single way is slightly troubling. Also, at least in my experience, the infoboxes on Wikia are much less developed than those on Wikipedia, although maybe there was something I was missing. CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That is the basis of my chronic opposition to people using Wikia to advertise competing options such as forks. You can generalize Wikia as a corporation but should not generalize Wikia wikis, which are all over the map.  I am not "troubled," nor any time someone sets up a charity but parlays what he has learned into a profitable business.  A minor-league baseball team recently set up a nearby short-season team using college students on vacation.  No problem with that either, compared to one guy owning two teams in the same league and milking one to make the other excellent.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 14:05 14-Sep-2017

Editing the footer links
Is it possible to edit the footer links (privacy policy, about, disclaimers etc.) to include additional links without having to request on phabricator? I am thinking about getting rid of the annoying cookie notice and have a simple link in-between "terms of use" and "mobile view". Thanks. Borderman  talk 11:01, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I have code at https://TheMirror.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js to remove the usual page title, sidebar, and page options from my wiki's main page. You can use this technique to modify the footer before it renders.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 11:51 14-Sep-2017
 * PS--I suspect a Phabricator request would not work, as the footer is probably common to all Miraheze wikis, so you should focus on changing the rendering on your wiki. <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 11:54 14-Sep-2017
 * Thanks for the tip. I probably would use js if I knew how but alas it is beyond my scope of understanding. Miraheze wikis obviously have certain commonalities with each other and some changes simply cannot be done without affecting all wikis but I would have thought the footer links could be customised to reflect individuality. If not, then I might have to include a link in the sidebar instead. Btw, interesting site you have. Borderman  (Talk) 12:35, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for sampling it! My code is not just JS but jQuery, the Tinkertoy of web programming.  I would be happy to devise code that would do what you want, but I would first have to cancel my local standing orders that remove the footer from all MediaWiki sites.  Click Talk and tell me "privately" what your wiki is and what you want.  <span style="background-color:navy; -moz-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid yellow; white-space: nowrap"><span style="color:yellow; font-family: Cambria, Palatino, serif">Sp&#305;ke  (talk) 12:57 14-Sep-2017
 * I wish I knew how code such as JS and jQuery worked so I could try myself but my lack of comprehension makes learning it moot, however, I would certainly take you up on your very generous offer. I'm not quite sure though what you mean by "I would first have to cancel my local standing orders that remove the footer from all MediaWiki sites." Also, just so you know, in your signature the name "Spike" red-links to a page on Meta that does not yet exist and "talk" links to a 404 on your wiki (I think you are missing /wiki/ in the address. Borderman  (Talk) 14:26, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Now corrected; additional kudos to you for being the first person to actually click on that. 15:15 14-Sep-2017 (Memo: We continued this, and Void provided suitable coding, at User talk:Borderman.)   04:06 15-Sep-2017

Two Miraheze surveys a year
Miraheze seems to still be relatively new, and I think an additional survey every year would help improve communication between the users and administrators of Miraheze. CoolieCoolster (talk) 20:06, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you have any suggestions as to how? I'm not entirely sure how staff use the data once the survey information is collated but the resulting graphical representations make interesting facts. 21:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Data about how the platform is growing is always useful to try to predict where the platform will be several months from now. It can also be used for users of the platform to request features in mass to see which features would be the most popular if implemented. CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Finance Graph
I was looking at the wiki farm finance data, and I thought it would be useful if there were a graph for the data. On Wikipedia, I have created graphs with the w:Template:Col-begin, w:Template:Left, and w:Template:Col end templates, so I was wondering if these templates could be imported here so I could make a graph of the increase of server costs, donations, and balance over time. CoolieCoolster (talk) 04:05, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Aesthetically, this sounds like a good idea. I use both Col-begin and Col-end on my wiki and think they are extremely useful for organising columns in tables. How would you use them in creating graphs? 09:20, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Link to the graph I made: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CoolieCoolster/Charts/Categories/Wikilink%26Orphan_Related
 * It uses the templates I mentioned. CoolieCoolster (talk) 14:13, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

File storage and transfer
If Miraheze would have to shut down (which I hope never happens), or your wiki would be shut down because of a particular reason. Will there be an option to retrieve your own wiki or wiki files? SebastianG (talk) 17:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hopefully, that will never be the case. You can read Backups. You can either request automatic weekly/bi-weekly/monthly backups (if the wiki is public) or request an individual backup. You can request both of these on Phabricator. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 17:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

On a somewhat similar topic, if I had a sizable database dump from a wiki, is there anyone here who could help me import it successfully? It's big enough that mwdumper would probably be needed. EDIT: Ah, I see you do offer "import" support. But do you know of ways to speed up the process done by importDump.php? Would you mind sharing the script you used to import it successfully (upon request) as well? --UltimateKuriboh (talk) 05:04, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * the script is just the importDump.php script included with mediawiki. It works similar to the web interface but it's run via the server shell and it won't timeout like the web server. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 12:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

How can I detach my global user account from individual wikis?
Is there a way to detach my global miraheze user account from individual wikis? CoolieCoolster (talk) 21:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Technically speaking I believe it's possible, but we don't do it. It's complicated and would be moot point because your account would still exist and it would still be the same on that wiki. Unattaching the account doesn't delete the account [which we also don't do]. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 22:07, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't need a "detached" global account, but it's annoying that my global contribution report is cluttered up with all the wikis I've peeked in on (for example, Coolie's two) despite making no edits. It would be better if the local account were created on the first write rather than the first read.  Or if the table were sorted so that all those Spike accounts with no contributions appeared last.   16:26 29-Sep-2017

Add a page for outages
I'd like a page on Meta to record outages.

I'd also like to create a category of pages that show the pages for incidents and outages. Rsterbal (talk) 21:11, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There is already one for incidents at Category:Incidents. You are free to create a page for outages. As you mentioned on IRC, this would be to record minor outages (ones not exceeding 30 mins downtime). I'm not sure what it would be called, though, so a title should be decided. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:36, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

I would suggest Category:Downtime and the page be call outages Rsterbal (talk) 02:42, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about if a category is needed, considering there's not much point in creating a separate page for every minor outage. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 17:07, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

If you have such tight constraints on using basic wiki functionality why don't you just post the policies you want as html pages? Rsterbal (talk) 11:42, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * They aren't "constrains". I am not imposing anything, I am just giving my opinion as a user, and this is just a discussion. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Rename a wiki
Is it possible to rename a wiki? I'm currently working on the following wiki: https://partup.miraheze.org. Is it possible to change this to for example https://r2.miraheze.org? Regards, Tim, Timboliu999 (talk) 14:10, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it's possible. You can requeast to any one Admin. And you can see also: Request for Feature on a wiki page. আ হ ম সাকিব TALK   CONTRIBUTION  15:38, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * No, that is not correct. Meta administrators have nothing to do with this. It is up to System administrators. You can see Request features. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 16:53, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

. What's different between Meta Admin and Sysop normally? Because of, Every Meta Admin is Sysop currently. Yes, My advice was wrong. But, I didn't want to command him wrongly. Thank you! আ হ ম সাকিব TALK   CONTRIBUTION  18:20, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well first of all, we use "Sysop" as a synonym for "Administrator" and use System administrator to describe the people with technical abilities. As it says on the page, sysadmins are responsible of making sure that the servers are running smoothly, dealing with requests and other tech-related tasks. Meta administrators are responsible for maintaining Meta wiki. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:11, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

List of Miraheze Wikis with the most visitors
I think it would be interesting to see the Miraheze wikis organized by visitor count. CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:18, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That sounds like an interesting idea which could be part of this project. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 14:17, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Statistics
I'm looking at my wiki's statistics in Special:Statistics, and even though there are 4 active editors, it says -1. Is there a way to fix this? CoolieCoolster (talk) 21:43, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Miraheze Wiki Statistics
When I go to https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=mh to look at the stats of different Miraheze wikis, there are always the same 1,253 wikis listed, with no new wikis ever being added. Is there a reason for this? CoolieCoolster (talk) 20:01, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I have never visited your wiki, and you have probably never visited mine! At other websites styled as wikis, there is a community (and not just a Community noticeboard) and you get feedback.  At this website styled as a wiki farm, the pleasant staff cheerfully give you the keys to your own wiki, and you crank out your best stuff in your locked room and no one knows it.  I daresay the two recent conversations on site-wide policy are not so much because we need more policy documents than that we need a way to be part of something greater than ourselves.


 * Your last couple threads on this page inquire about ways to find out if you have gotten any nibbles. Let me ask if there isn't an underlying problem: the lack of any way to encourage nibbling.  I have visited All The Tropes, because it's famous, but truly do not know what else is available nor see any way of finding out.  My wiki is a humor "news site" and I'd enjoy knowing who else is here to write jokes, perhaps even merging wikis.  The "Uncyclopedia" here is in fact Chinese-language and I have no way to join forces with it.


 * So (apart from my mention above of the invigorating effects of paying to advertise Miraheze) I second your call for better metrics, but add: better (and cost-free) ways to "cross-sell" the wikis, even to the other people who are already tuned in to Miraheze.  23:08 22-Sep-2017


 * One problem I noticed is that there aren't enough wikis on here with significant editing communities. One solution would be for people who edit on here consistently to form a group that all help improve each other's wikis, but the problem with that would be the fact that a lot of wikis are about very specific topics that many people may not know enough about. Another solution would be to advertise Miraheze. I noticed that there was a inactive subreddit for Miraheze, so if we could revive it that could be a way to get more people to come and create their own wikis or help others with their wikis. We need more people to edit on here to improve the current wikis and to create new wikis that will get even more people to edit on here. CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:51, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps if we had a "Wiki of the Week" on the front page it would encourage editors to improve their wiki to get it onto the front page. CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Being willing to create wikis for people who don't want a community to begin with, is a feature not a bug; likewise if, as you say, someone creates a wiki about a very specific topic. Still, the wiki farm has attracted lots of people, some of whom could boost each other's edits.  Featuring a wiki on the main page is an excellent idea, though it boosts only one wiki at a time.  Meanwhile, there could be better ways to inventory, catalog, or present the wikis to help those so inclined find another wiki to help out.   02:48 23-Sep-2017


 * Perhaps we could create a Miraheze wiki improvement team, with a list of wikis to help improve, or possibly create. The team could help improve the look of wikis to make them stand out more, reply to questions from and help out new wiki creators, and copy edit articles to improve the standard of Miraheze wikis. For a wiki to be added to the official list of wikis to improve, requirements could include the participation of the owner of the wiki on the team, the wiki having a topic that might be of interest to more than just a few people, and the wiki having existed with an active administrator for a certain length of time. The team could also revive abandoned wikis that might be of interest to a wide audience, which would help bring more readers and editors to Miraheze. The team could help create wikis that would be far too big for just one person to create. The more big wikis like All The Tropes that we have, the more editors we have a chance of getting. CoolieCoolster (talk) 03:54, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * These are all very interesting ideas. I do agree that currently, it is very hard for users to find other wikis based on content/topics/etc. and that there are many interesting wikis who are only edited by one user currently, but other interested users could also help, if they knew that said wikis existed. For the team idea, I don't think it should be something "official", it could be something organised by the community and anyone willing to volunteer can join the team. The team could create tasks, goals, etc. for themselves. Ideas such as this one exist (for organizing wikis based on content) or this one for a statistic interface. The big issue that we face is that all of these technical projects need active developers willing to work on them, which we do not have. The priority now is ManageWiki, so that wiki bureaucrats can change settings on their wikis that currently can only be done via editing LocalSettings.php, but that one is also waiting on an active developer which we do not have. I also like the sub-Reddit idea, as people could share their wikis there, and maybe bring active editors to help them with their wikis. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * For the 1,253 thing, as of now we have 2512 wikis, and 1438 public wikis, so the count is wrong indeed. I will ask upstream about why the list is not updated. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:36, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Creation Collaboration Idea
Many wikis on Miraheze are small wikis that only need the one person who created them to work on their wiki in order for their wiki to be near-complete. However, if Miraheze is going to grow it needs bigger wikis that will bring a bigger audience to Miraheze. Big wikis are not easy to create alone, so I suggest that there be a place for people who have ideas for wikis to ask if any other people on Miraheze would be interested in helping to create a wiki. CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:41, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. It is true that we have a lot of small wikis, which people don't know about. An automatic system for sorting them is currently a project, but it will probably take a lot of time. I think that this is a good idea, and would let users get to know about other small projects that are in need of editing. We should find a title for a page, and then maybe create a table of wikis, sorted by topic (and maybe a description about what is in need of improvement, etc.). Then users can add their wiki on the list, and whoever is interested can help edit it. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:33, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, please! I propose List of wikis as a name.  We can discuss what links to it, but it should be mentioned somewhere in the process of new-user familiarization.  Subsections would include wikis trying to assemble an authoritative reference (on a single event versus on a broad field of activity), wikis inviting collaborative fiction, participatory fantasy sites, fan-based wikis, and humor wikis.   12:26 14-Oct-2017
 * For the name, I'm not sure that List of wikis would work, since we already have Special:SiteMatrix and also because the list would not be including all wikis (since that's not possible unless it's automatic) but would only be including some wikis added by users. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 12:36, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The name would work fine. It is not the same thing as SiteMatrix (which it should reference).  There should be no problem, provided it states what it is and what it isn't.  I'll get it started, subject to edits and perhaps even a decision on a better name.   13:25 14-Oct-2017


 * This is on its way., I had hoped you would fill in the name of that occasional list of the most active wikis; I can't remember where it is.  The other changes you made to the Intro strike me as unnecessary redundancy; for instance, we need not warn that the page is NOT a complete list, when that sentence is immediately followed by a bullet telling where the complete list is.  , I went to Appedia and saw that you had imported infrastructure but other than this skeleton, there seems to be nothing there.  List of wikis will not be useful to the reader if it links to bare rooms that he is to furnish.  Separately, are the sites about podcasts designed to deliver useful information and invite collaboration, or merely to goose traffic to those podcasts?   18:29 14-Oct-2017
 * As I wrote on Timpedia, the wiki for one of the podcasts was originally on Wikia, and we decided to move it away from Wikia due to all the advertising on Wikia. The wiki is just a place that new listeners to the podcast can go to for information. The other podcast wiki is also just to provide information to listeners of the podcast. CoolieCoolster (talk) 19:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a list of active wikis here and here (although I can't figure out for the life of me what the ranking system is there). -- Void  Whispers 19:40, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Why I wanted to make it obvious is because we have users from many countries and who speak different languages, and sometimes it is hard for them to understand, or even users who are in a hurry and don't have time to read everything. One example (though there are more, such as Requests for adoption) is Stewards' noticeboard where even though it is clearly mentioned that non-steward requests shouldn't be submitted, users still do so. Therefore, I still propose to rename the page. Why not have List of wikis by topic or List of wikis in need of improving? I just think it should be something that clearly states that it is not a list of all wikis, as the current title suggests. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 07:38, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This native English-speaker pleads guilty to occasionally posting without reading! Yes, I see the problem, List of wikis does seem like a complete list.  "In need of improving" is a value judgement that existing wiki authors might not share.  List of wikis by topic (not so much topic, but emphasis: reference vs fandom vs humor, and "emphasis" is not the right word either) or List of notable wikis, yes.   15:31 15-Oct-2017


 * Or Gazetteer of wikis, a "gazetteer" defined as a "geographical index" to the lay-of-the-land of Miraheze, a Miraheze travel blog.  15:39 15-Oct-2017


 * Back to your original request, for "a place for people...to ask if any other people on Miraheze would be interested in" collaboration, a "Community noticeboard" (community meaning cross-wiki) would seem to be the place. But it is great that you have fleshed out the new gazetteer-or-whatever.   15:44 15-Oct-2017


 * That will be my nomination. If there continues to be no discussion (for two days), I'll rename this Gazetteer of wikis and will mention it in the FAQs.   13:10 17-Oct-2017


 * Hearing no objection, this is done. The old name remains as a redirect, but the page title will use the word "gazetteer" to avoid the impression that it is a complete "list."   11:27 19-Oct-2017

How do I request a wiki extension?
How do I request a wiki extension? --Shortwiki (talk) 07:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see Request features. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 12:08, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect article counts in Special:Statistics on wikis
On apps.miraheze.org, the vast majority of articles are only being counted as pages, and not as "content pages". How can I fix this? CoolieCoolster (talk) 01:21, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not write some content? Project pages, templates, and standing orders in the MediaWiki: namespace are not content.  I mentioned above that this wiki looks unbegun; there is nothing there but a framework for future writing.   18:20 18-Oct-2017
 * You can read this for more information regarding how "articles" are counted. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:04, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Private page sections?
Is there a way to have a portion of a page visible only to certain users? Or can it be done with an extension? New to mediawiki, not quite sure about capabilities and limitations yet. Googling does not get me any results either way. Thanks! Dennis (talk) 07:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't believe Miraheze offers anything like Access Control Lists for individual pages. If "visibility" is the key, you could put text in a box, whose style is , and rely on the wiki's custom JavaScript (in MediaWiki:Common.js) to change the box's style, based on any criteria you could code.  The sensitive information would still be sent to the user, though; it would simply be unreadable.


 * Likewise, links to certain pages could be hidden from certain users, though people would eventually figure out how to get to them. Bottom line:  You have the tools to tailor a page to what's relevant to a given reader; but if you have secrets, the best strategy is to not put them on the web at all.   18:15 18-Oct-2017
 * There is an extension, but it has become incompatible with the newest version of MediaWiki, 1.29 so therefore we can't use it. MediaWiki isn't really made for having some private pages and some public ones. If you need to have private pages for only some users to be able to read, you could create another private wiki and have them there. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:23, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Problems with image files
i've started using miraheze and in general mediawiki recently and everything seems to be fine except a weird issue with images, i can t update them as they stay as the original and even if i delete and reuploud the better file it doesn't change and also a problem with transparency but mainly just photos not updating.

Someone let me know or something. is it just the how the images work and it takes awhile to change how it looks?
 * Re-uploading images should take a while, I think about 10 minutes. Is it taking more? What exactly is the issue with transparency? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 19:18, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

With tranparency it might just be the same issue and a picture i uplouded is still showing up as its old lower qualit self, that i uplouded yesterday, so thats why i was asking ArchyArc (talk)
 * Hm, I'm not to good with images but I don't think the quality can really be affected by this except if you uploaded a low quality image and then replaced it with a high quality one. Maybe someone else knows more about this? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:17, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Well in some cases thats what i did but i also deleted the image then reuplouded it but still shows the low quality version but at the higher quality resolution, and its understandable if you dont know, thanks for trying to help ArchyArc (talk)

You meantioned about uplouding higher quality images ontop of lower qualit ones/older versions that are smaller, thats my issue and i cant fix it for the life of me ArchyArc (talk)


 * On Wikia, we had a chronic problem with "sticky" thumbnails. Your higher-resolution image might be aboard even if the thumbnail in the File: page shows the older version.  Please verify that the preferred file didn't upload.  Also, please verify that you have flushed your cache; that is, your browser might still be using an older version of the photo stored on your PC.  Your browser asks Miraheze if it has a "newer" photo and avoids downloads when it seems that a suitable file is already in your own cache.   17:01 27-Oct-2017
 * In addition to what Spike the Dog said, please also make sure you have waited a bit after the image was reuploaded. If you are still experiencing issues with this even after following what Spike the Dog said please tell me and I will look into it. You might also want to create a Phabricator task if the issue persists.

So tried doing what spike said and to no avail, it still shows as the low quality image, im not sure what else to do i might have to make that phabricator task then. ArchyArc (talk)


 * Before proceeding, please be precise: It "shows as the low quality image" or it is low-quality? That is, is it just that the preview looks wrong, or does Miraheze really still have the wrong version?  Try reuploading again and look at the response page carefully: Is it a new page in the File: space or is it the original request page, plus a colorful warning that part of your request is missing or in error?  I was in this situation once regarding the failure of new pages to get included in a DPL directory of new pages, and a background task had stalled, so maybe it is worth a Phabricator ticket.   19:49 27-Oct-2017

With the images, an actual example was the picture was like... 60x60 (simplified) and i uplouded a 180x180 version of the same picture (Even tried with a completely different picture and had the same result) it showed the original 60x60 at the 180x180 resolution making it all blurry, so if i clicked on the actual image it would be 60x60 but even on the file:___ preview it was 180x180 and on wiki pages making it blurry. ill go and see about the phabricator thing now, if this is a proper issue ArchyArc (talk)


 * I just encountered this, cropping and re-uploading an image. In the thumbnail on the File: page and wherever it was used, I did not see the cropped version but the old image, stretched to fit the dimensions of the crop.  I waited a couple of minutes and gave it a hard Ctrl-F5 and everything was right.   23:57 4-Nov-2017

File uploading size limit
I want to upload audio files to my wiki, although most of them are over the 40 MB limit. CoolieCoolster (talk) 22:04, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It will reduce your size requirements to use the MP3 format. This is not supported on a standard Miraheze wiki but I requested the extension to be installed at TheMirror.  You can reduce the filesize further by recording monaural and dialing the quality down to 22 KHz.   01:44 27-Oct-2017
 * I converted one audio file from mp3 to ogg, which nearly halved its file size. I will try lowering the quality, which should get the audio file below the 40 MB limit.CoolieCoolster (talk) 05:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Converted several other files from MP3 to OGG and it seems that it only removes 15 MB.CoolieCoolster (talk) 08:12, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You are trying to upload Ted Cruz's 23-hour Obama-care speech to the U.S. Senate?  14:53 27-Oct-2017
 * If you are trying to upload a relatively large file, maybe you should try using Zip. If you need to be able to upload zip files feel free to request that. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:52, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Coolie can verify on his computer that zipping a file reduces its size. This is doubtful; unlike text, audio files do not have a lot of recurring strings that can be replaced by a single copy and pointers.  If Coolie's wiki would benefit from Zips, Reception123 should tell Coolie which extension to request.  I don't see "zip" anywhere in the list of Extensions.   17:05 27-Oct-2017
 * I need a file extension that would work with the audio player, which it seems primarily uses the OGG file extension. I managed to reduce a MP3 file from 90 MB to 25 MB by lowering the quality, however I think simply using the YouTube widget would be an better solution.CoolieCoolster (talk) 20:21, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree; rather than turn your wiki into a streaming website for audio of deliberately poor fidelity, you should indeed simply link to a streaming website.  01:52 4-Nov-2017

MWException errors
I'm continually getting MWException errors on allthetropes.org, even when editing. Anyone else getting these? --Walkden1986 (talk) 19:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This was because of an error with an extension on allthetropes. It was fixed shortly after. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 09:41, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

<div class="boilerplate metadata discussion-archived" style="background-color: #F2F4FC; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa">
 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Merging and Renaming Wikis
I originally created Timpedia and Unmapedia as two seperate wikis for two different podcasts, however Unmapedia barely had any articles so I simply decided to import all the articles from Unmapedia into Timpedia to create a central database of information. I also added information about a third podcast, and am considering adding information about more podcasts. The subdomain for Timpedia, "hellointernet", no longer reflects the entire purpose of the wiki. Before I decide what to do, I have several questions:

1. Can I redirect one Miraheze wiki to another Miraheze wiki?

2. Can the domain of a wiki be changed without having to create a new wiki and importing all the articles from the old wiki? If so, can the old domain redirect to the new domain?

CoolieCoolster (talk) 01:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Consolidating the two wikis seems wise. I read elsewhere that one's Main Page can be a  .  Or it could also contain text explaining the reorganization, followed by a link to be clicked manually to the new wiki.  It would be nice to include a hit counter to see if anyone even bothers with the old wiki.  It sounds like you want to request to rename the new wiki.   01:48 4-Nov-2017
 * 1. Yes, you can redirect wikis.
 * 2. Yes, the wiki domain (database) can be renamed, and the old one can still redirect to the new one. Please request on Phabricator when you need it. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:14, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You should also edit Gazetteer of wikis to not list the one that is just a redirect, and to indicate the broader role (and any new name) of the other one.  13:33 4-Nov-2017

Formation of Code of Conduct Commission
Following the closure of Requests for Comment/Amendment of Code of Conduct, September 2017, we now need to elect members to this new Commission. I intend for the process to be as follows: Any user who disagrees with the process is welcome to discuss below to amend it. -- Void  Whispers 23:40, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) For a minimum of one week, or until the community decides it is ready, users will be allowed to nominate themselves and others for the position on the Community noticeboard. All users nominated by others must somewhere signify acceptance to their nomination before this period closes. During this period, the Steward and Staff bodies should pick their members.
 * 2) Individual requests for each nominee will be opened in a central location (for now Meta:Requests for permissions, although a discussion in the interim may change the location). These requests will be open for at least a week to allow for participation. The two requests with the most support will be successful.

Nominations
Please keep this section for nominations only. Please talk about the nominations on Discussion sections. I will leave your 'comments' as is for next 24 or 48 hours, then move it to Discussion sections. &mdash; revi  08:50, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Any comment that is not nomination (ie. I nominate myself, or I nominate $big_brother / accepting the nomination) will be moved to discussion after 48 hours, if you haven't done yourself. &mdash; revi  09:03, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for overturning my previous comment, but realized I should've done this right away. Please comment about things on Discussion section, and not in Nominations. Thank you. &mdash; revi  09:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Feel free to add yourself or another user here. If nominating another user, please notify them so they can accept.
 * I, CnocBride, hereby announce my nomination to run for a position on the Code of Conduct Commission. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  22:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I also have the intention and I am willing to be part of the Code of Conduct Commission. —<font color="#1406D0">Alvaro Molina (<font color="#137500">✉  - <font color="#137500">✔ ) 01:34, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I would like to nominate John as a Commission member. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:20, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Accepted. John (talk) 09:34, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Acceptance pulled. Toxicity remains in that ATT users wish to continue pilling on to oust me from the community and service again. John (talk) 09:07, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I would like to nominate LulzKiller as a Commission member. Of all of the admins at the largest wiki hosted at Miraheze, he has the most experience with what this Commission would be dealing with. --Robkelk (talk) 16:28, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Declined due to lack of feasible path to election. LulzKiller (talk) 23:10, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Salient point there. At any rate, I would like to nominate User:CnocBride and User:AlvaroMolina as possible candidates for this position. GethN7 (talk) 08:55, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand I am already nominated but I thank you for your nomination :) &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:26, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I would like to nominate and  for their outstanding contributions to Miraheze, especially helping with Phabricator and feature requests. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:33, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Accepted. MacFan4000 (talk) 19:06, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Accepted. Videojeux4 (talk) 21:39, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I'd like to nominate if he would accept the position. Although the administration behind both Miraheze and ATT seemed to have butted heads (possibly still are but hopefully not) I think that GethN7 can remain level headed and provide an unbiased opinion on matters which I think will be helpful on any sort of commission. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 01:59, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If appointed, I have every intention of putting my duties before my bias, that I explicitly promise here, and if I falter in this, please hold me to account, should I be accepted for this position. GethN7 (talk) 03:22, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll take that as your acceptance of the nomination for the user-voting period. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 03:33, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Please note these things when applying:
 * If you are accepted, we (system administrators) will collect your email address so you can receive mails sent to conduct@undefinedmiraheze.org, and it will be stored forever in publicly visible place (GitHub).
 * You are expected to be around (not kind of requiring you to respond in 6 hours or like, just checking your inbox regularly) during your terms.
 * As a member of organization that enforces Code of Conduct, you are held to higher standard than ordinary users. You may face less leeway than other users.
 * We currently have lots of things to clarify that is left to Commission's discretion (election rules, etc). You have to be willing to participate in such discussion.
 * &mdash; revi  06:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

John's eligibility

 * Is John eligible? His User page says that he left Miraheze on May 25 2017. --Robkelk (talk) 12:19, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Any user is eligible regardless of what their userpage may or may not say. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 12:28, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * John was the co-founder of Miraheze but left Operations on that date. He is still a member of the community and remains active. - CnocBride
 * Plus I've only just now been able to edit my own user page. John (talk) 15:23, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I sincerely hope that the comment about somebody being co-founder does not imply that you or anyone else believes that fact should give him special privileges. Being co-founder should not matter at all, and IMHO should not even have been mentioned. --Robkelk (talk) 01:26, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that a user should, well, be actively using the service. Someone who exiled himself from the wiki farm does not fit a common-sense definition of "user" (unless he's been accessing Miraheze under a sockpuppet, which brings up honesty and trust issues).  If in fact John has actually been absent from Miraheze for these last several months, that seems like a prima facie example of a former user -- or at least, an inactive one.  In which case nominating him seems suspiciously like bringing in a ringer.  I think maybe before we start nominating candidates, we define was constitutes an acceptable candidate.  If there are no minimum requirements, we might as well nominate everyone's favorite troublemaker on the grounds that they are quite definitely a user. --Looney Toons (talk) 22:08, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I've been using the service actively since July, having taken back my operations responsibility for most of August and September to keep the service running. For most of that time I was the only active volunteer with advanced access to the service involving root and upstream service accounts who responded fairly regularly and actively to downtime during those periods. I never exiled myself, I rescinded my access but remained around and since July after settling into my new job have been providing advice and support to the technical team behind the platform. John (talk) 22:20, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Looney Toons, I believe your comment is badly grounded and has no solid evidence. John left for a period for legitimate reasons and I understand your doubt to nominate him due to his inactivity but I believe your reasoning to be slightly naive. John along with SPF set up this great service and worked on it for years and continues to do so behind the scenes like he said. Claiming that he isn't "actively using the service", in my view, is wrong. I am a wiki creator and regularly help out on Phabricator and I also watch technical tasks that are being performed over there. A lot of the time I see John there assisting and commenting on tasks and giving everyone support which I believe is "actively using the service". Just because John hasn't been on the community side of things (wikis) doesn't mean he doesn't contribute and certainly doesn't mean he isn't active. I do agree with the minimum requirements system as a necessary check to be put in place but you should bring this up with Void or another steward. Again, these accusations of inactivity are totally groundless. John is a worthy and suitable candidate and I believe he is one of the right men for the job! &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  00:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a valid point LT is making: John hasn't been a public presence, which would be a vital factor in a policy that affects public facing material like conduct enforcement. What LT is trying to say is that John has, by his own choice, chosen to withdraw from those responsibilities of his own will, and if he were to resume them, it would be best if he resumed lesser duties of a similar nature to prove to both new and old users, especially the former, he is more than qualified to represent them fairly and effectively. GethN7 (talk) 03:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * John has been active mostly everywhere. He has made edits to Meta, helped with tasks on Phabricator, been around all the time on IRC, commented and helped with GitHub pull requests, so I find that stating John has not been active is incorrect. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand your discomfort of allowing John on to the COC due to past differences and because of his lack of "public activity" on the community. John is a good man and he does plenty of things for Mirahaze in the past and in the present. Even though you don't see him very much anymore, as Reception said above, he is pretty active on other services. I still believe John is eligible &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  11:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * At this point, Amanda has a more visible presence on Meta than John does. We need a clear statement of who is or is not a user in the context of Reception123's statement. --Robkelk (talk) 16:37, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe the original wording I had for the close went something along the lines of "Any user in good standing with the community could nominate themselves." However, I also realized that defining "good standing" would also be somewhat difficult to handle at this stage. What I concluded instead is that no one would vote for someone who they believed to have misbehaved. Therefore, there would be no need to say who could and could not apply now, because the community would have the chance to sort it out later in the voting period. Voidwalker (talk) 17:13, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I would be in favor of those who are as non partisan and who have a little partisanship as possible to be in charge of this position. For those reasons, I would have reservations about EITHER User:John or User:LulzKiller being an enforcer of such policies. I remind everyone the former, of his own free will, flounced from public enforcement of policy when he felt under undue pressure and effectively surrendered his powers for an indefinite duration, until now. The latter, on the other hand, played a role in antagonizing the former over belief in their incompetence to perform those duties, which, whether it had truth to it, was unduly harsh and done largely to dig glass into raw wounds. Ideally, the only parties who should have any role in enforcing conduct and rules are those who have no partisanship in either direction and can be trusted to show as little bias either way as possible. GethN7 (talk) 03:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * For clarity, I didn't flounce due to pressure. I resigned because no sane human would volunteer long gruelling hours in a stressful environment to be harassed and abused for them then go to work (on little sleep) and do it all over again. I wish LK's behaviour was antagonising behaviour but it was far from it. John (talk) 09:16, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No human is without bias. In positions of this nature, one needs to be able to put one's biases aside and work together. Can each of the current nominees show evidence of being able to do this? Can anyone show evidence that a current nominee is not able to do this? --Robkelk (talk) 13:42, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I think that the way some users treated John has been a shame, the user, despite having temporarily withdrawn and having renounced his advanced permits, is still part of the community and has continued to work in other areas. linked to Miraheze by assisting in IRC and helping the sysadmins with some tasks. Also, as a co-founder of Miraheze he could have done an excellent job in the Commission. Regards. —<font color="#1406D0">Alvaro Molina (<font color="#137500">✉  - <font color="#137500">✔ ) 11:44, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Exactly which users have mistreated John? What I see is:
 * John was nominated and accepted the nomination;
 * I asked whether someone who publicly stated he had left Miraheze months ago was eligible;
 * Reception123 stated that any user (his emphasis) was eligible;
 * Looney Toons and GethN7 asked whether somebody who was working behind the scenes was a user;
 * John withdrew his nomination, blaming "toxicity".
 * And, as I said earlier, being a co-founder should not make any difference or give anyone special privileges. I also point out revi's statement at the very start of this section: "As a member of organization that enforces Code of Conduct, you are held to higher standard than ordinary users. You may face less leeway than other users." If someone cannot handle questions about whether he qualifies for the position, would he feel comfortable being held to higher standard than ordinary users? --Robkelk (talk) 16:24, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I may not have been on Miraheze for very long, but I can clearly see that some people are not treating John fairly in comparison to other users. I used to edit Wikipedia, and it seemed that on Wikipedia people treated each other with more respect, or at least gave other users more time to explain themselves and were more open to their answers. Perhaps that is just because there are hundreds of thousands of people editing Wikipedia, compared to just a couple hundred editors on Miraheze, however I think that even with only a couple hundred people we can still treat each other fairly and not simply dismiss someone's thoughts outright because of opinions or biases held about that person. If everyone wants Miraheze, and therefore their own wikis, to improve, we can't keep throwing stones at each other. CoolieCoolster (talk) 17:23, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * To clarify, "If someone cannot handle questions about whether he qualifies for the position, would he feel comfortable being held to higher standard than ordinary users?" - I never answered the questions because I don't think it's my place to tell people how to think about me - since it's quite clear everyone has made their mind up. The statement is "any user" therefore, yes I qualify. I didn't withdraw because I can't answer - I withdrew because ATT decided to witch hunt me stating facts with no research and no informed conclusions. I am active, but no one bothered to do the research. John (talk) 18:53, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * John, I am saddened that you cannot look past your biases regarding ATT and look at the questions being asked simply as questions being asked no matter who is asking them. Asking the questions is itself the process of doing the research - we need the answers and the transparency in gathering the information in order to be able to make up our minds. --Robkelk (talk) 20:47, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is no bias to look past. You asked if I am eligible and you received a reply before I read it. Another ATT user then comes and asks the same question stating I am not active - I answer proving I am. A third then comes repeating a similar point which I had answered to the second user. The statements made were I am not active - which implied you researched when making the statements. You don't go up to someone and go "Your name is Dave. What is your name?". Also I recommend people don't accuse me of bias when they seem to have their own assuming because I was nominated, its some co-ordinated plot because of who I am. I guarantee if this was any other user that statement would not have been made. John (talk) 21:18, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, your bias is showing. Your statement that the admins of ATT are engaged in a co-ordinated plot is false, and I request an apology and a retraction from you for making that statement in accordance with the letter and spirit of the first three bulleted points of the "General Conduct" section of Miraheze's Code of Conduct. We do not have some members-only IRC channel where we talk about how we're going to provoke somebody who doesn't agree with us, or anything similar. In fact, we promote diverse views. As for my concern about this Commission becoming a "star chamber", we also promote transparency, so it is reasonable that we would want somebody who promotes transparency to be on the Commission. Your analogy is flawed; the faux-quote should have been "Your name is Dave. What do you do for a living?" Finally, there are other users about whom I have concerns regarding their lack of transparency - if any of them are nominated, you will find out who they are because I will make my concerns known. --Robkelk (talk) 13:50, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Arguing clearly isn't getting anyone anywhere. We are here to pick members of the commission, not to argue with each other. CoolieCoolster (talk) 00:51, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * John being the co-founder indeed makes no difference whatsoever regarding his eligibility as a Commission member. To address the whole userpage issue, if someone had something inappropriate on their userpage, it would have been removed by administrators, and if it was still there and the user refused to take it off, the user would have been blocked. In John's case he could not change the content due to his userpage being sysop protected. Even though John has withdrawn his acceptance of the nomination, I still don't see why he would not have been eligible. Unless a user is blocked or globally locked, there shouldn't be any reason for why they shouldn't be eligible to be a commission member. If you believe that a user shouldn't be a commission member that should be kept for the voting phase. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:06, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

General criteria for nominees

 * I think someone without a wiki of their own to focus on would be the ideal candidate for the code of conduct commission. No matter what some people think about other people, I think most of the people on Miraheze have similar goals, so I think people should set aside their negative opinions of each other at least temporarily in order to make sure we have the right people on this commission. CoolieCoolster (talk) 10:11, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  11:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * (1) Status as a founder does not make one user outrank others but it does evidence long-term commitment to the website. (2) A search for nominees who have never taken sides in a past dispute will have us ruled by novices, including those who will have quit by the time we need them.  However, if we have tight-enough policy documents to guide them, that might be a fresh approach.  (3) Failure to start a wiki is suspicious — like the continual president of the Singles Club who never goes on dates — but not fatal, as there are many different ways to contribute besides text content.  (4) The above does not suggest there is a right answer; everyone who chooses to vote brings his own values to it.  (5) The above debate has been needlessly adversarial — from John taking the worst way the resistance to his nomination, to Robkelk demanding surrender and promising future battles — compare Amanda nearby.  It does not produce good decision-making nor look good to passers-by who might join.   15:58 4-Nov-2017
 * I think it's something that should be seen on a case-by-case basis, I do not think that being or not being a wiki founder should be relevant to being a member of the Commission, as long as you have the disposition to be able to work in the 2 things in a balanced way and there are no conflicts with the rest of the community that can be inferred in the normal development of the task. Regards. —<font color="#1406D0">Alvaro Molina (<font color="#137500">✉  - <font color="#137500">✔ ) 17:46, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Proposal on timeline
I propose we end nomination period by one week after void's posting this section (23:40, 7 November 2017 (UTC)) and enter the voting period. We already have around 2x allocated seats for the commission. I also propose we make a vote on dedicated page like Code of Conduct/Commission/Election/2017. &mdash; revi  10:20, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As of this posting, we have two accepted nominations for two posts. That's hardly "2x allocated". --Robkelk (talk) 13:31, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I was counting John. Yup. Still, I don't see value delaying this for more than a week. &mdash; revi  13:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I feel uncomfortable with the idea of the inaugural staffing of the Commission being by acclamation, no matter who the people essentially being appointed are. --Robkelk (talk) 16:24, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with delaying the vote, but then how long? &mdash; revi  15:23, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * A dedicated page is a good idea, after all, we most likely be using a similar process next year. Voidwalker (talk) 17:13, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that having only 2 users nominated and them being "automatically" made members isn't a too good idea. Though I believe the one week limit for nominations is more than enough, and if anyone wants to nominate someone they have sufficient time. As for the dedicated page I agree that there should be one, since there will be yearly elections. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:08, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Just want to confirm, are the nominations ending? We only have 3 members currently that have been nominated and accepted:, and me. Personally I believe there should be more members on the commission but if these are the rules of the election and only 3 members are willing I am willing to proceed. &#32;  CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  20:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * We could wait 1 more week in case someone wants to nominate, I think with a minimum of 5 candidates we could start a votation. —<font color="#1406D0">Alvaro Molina (<font color="#137500">✉  - <font color="#137500">✔ ) 21:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Quick draft at the link above. Suggestions welcome (especially rules). No indication of closing nominations. &mdash; revi  16:42, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * My idea is that on the Statement/Question page and on Voting pages, everyone have a 2-level section headings for QnA/Votings. Now back to the abyss... &mdash; revi  16:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section

'Staff' appointments to the Code of Conduct Commission
Per the changes to policy, the system administrators are appointing 2 of the 5 code of conduct commission members, the Steward body is appointing one member, and the community will vote on the accepted nomination to appoint the last two members. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 02:00, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

System Administrators' appointments
The two people chosen by system administrators' to represent them on the CoC commission are:
 * 1) User:Reception123
 * 2) User:Revi

Stewards' appointment
The person chosen to represent the Stewards on the CoC commission is the only Steward:
 * 1) User:Void

Community Nominations
Community nominations will be posted here shortly after at least 5 people have accepted a nomination.
 * 1) User:AlvaroMolina
 * 2) User:CnocBride
 * 3) User:GethN7
 * 4) User:MacFan4000
 * 5) User:Videojeux4

Help with imports from wikipedia
I was wondering if anyone can help me with figuring out why certain templates don't seem to be working properly after importing them from wikipedia. In my project I require locational articles to aid the general information I have already created/written but I simply don't have the time to research and write them, therefore, thought I would use some wikipedia articles to save considerable time. After exporting the test page I wanted to try (including all the associated templates used on that page) and importing into my own wiki, the information is there but certain templates don't appear as they do in the wikipedia article. Can anyone with considerable more knowledge than me regarding this shed some light as to why they aren't functioning and displaying properly. The page I am testing is Appleby-in-Westmorland and as you can see it doesn't look like the original. Any help to fix this is greatly appreciated. Thanks. 17:03, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I recall reading that the ability to import map data relies on a MediaWiki extension that might not be installed on your wiki.  17:19 5-Nov-2017
 * Are you referring to the geographical coordinates located at the top right above the infobox? The map data inside the infobox appears to be rendering fine but the infobox itself isn't. The same goes for the navigational box at the bottom of the page. I know they all require different elements to work correctly, I just don't know what they are and how to get them working. 17:44, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that you selected "Include templates" when importing either the article or the template? Sometimes if something is missing it will do stuff like that. Please also see this. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:02, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I definitely selected include templates, I always do just to be on the safe side. I have used import and export on numerous occasions but not usually for pages with quite so complex templates and modules. I already had imported the relevant stuff from Void's infobox checklist, the only difference is my commons.css page didn't have the full text from wikipedia. When I imported that (and consequently overwrote my own css) the templates rendered much better. The problem was all my own styling wasn't there any more. So, putting it back broke the templates again but I need my own styling as well. Still trying to figure this one out. 18:43, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * is good with CSS so he can probably help you fix that part. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:46, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll definitely have to ask for help because no matter what changes I make I can't get it to work. if you get chance would you have a look at my commons.css page (try not to laugh too much) and see where I am going wrong. I need to keep my own styling (located in the top quarter of the page) but integrate it better with wikipedia's styling to make the inboxes/navboxes work. As always, any help would make this rather confused chap most grateful.  18:59, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm taking a look now, it seems as though there is an unmatched set of braces {} somewhere. -- Void  Whispers 19:12, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the } character I added and make sure it's placement makes sense. I don't know where you wanted to end that @media block, so I just threw one in there where it made sense. Should work now, lemme double check. -- Void  Whispers 19:21, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Reset indent. Thanks for looking, very much appreciated. One missing character, like I was ever going to work that out! Well spotted. It works so I am happy to leave it as it is as I don't really know where I would end that block. Can you explain what the function of that additional brace is and why it works where it is currently located? Just trying to understand how it works now. Cheers. 19:42, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay. Basically, there was this block:

@media (max-width: 768px) { background-color: #282828; } img.editbutton:hover { background-color: #282828; }
 * 1) hamburgerIcon:hover {
 * The @media line is opening a block of styling, but this block is never closed later. The character I added closed the block. If you move that character around, you change where the @media rule ends. -- Void  Whispers 21:46, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, that makes sense when you put it that way, thanks. I do have another problem regarding templates/modules exported from Wikipedia. I am sure I have included ALL the relevant templates/modules needed to make the infobox work correctly but I am having real problems getting the coordinates template to display the maps properly in this template without the fatal error message as seen on this article page. I have fixed most things apart from this and I am stumped. Could you possibly advise on a solution? Cheers. 23:56, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Numbered sections
At the moment, this section would be 9 Numbered sections to correspond with the Table of Contents. But this isn't happening on my wiki, and it doesn't seem to be a wiki-specific option in Preferences. Can I enable automatic section numbering on my wiki, or is this a job for Phab? 13:36 13-Nov-2017
 * If your talking about the table of contents then add to the page. MacFan4000 (talk) 14:31, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, but no. My Tables of Contents are fine. (I do use TOC and in fact have custom CSS for them.) It is the section headings that are the problem. If this section were in my wiki, the number 9 would be missing from the heading. (Do you see it differently?)  14:36 13-Nov-2017
 * I know this may seem obvious but did you try removing your custom CSS that deals with TOC? &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  15:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * On Meta and my own wiki I go into preferences - appearance - advanced options - auto number headings. This will number each heading on the page to correspond with the numbers in the toc. Is this what you are after? 15:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, Borderman, that is exactly it and the problem is solved. I pored over Preferences but missed this. Thanks for your help, CnocBride. 15:38 13-Nov-2017
 * No problem pal, glad to help. 15:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)